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An Easy Call: Lying
The Washington Post ^ | May 12, 2006 | Eugene Robinson

Posted on 05/11/2006 8:18:27 PM PDT by lonestar67

At least now we know that the Bush administration's name for spying on Americans without first seeking court approval -- the "terrorist surveillance program" -- isn't an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak after all. It's just a bald-faced lie.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: hayden; privacy; waronterror
This is the lead article on Google news right now-- Coincidence?
1 posted on 05/11/2006 8:18:29 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: lonestar67

Democrats were okay with Eschelon and Carnivore which captured every phone call, every e-mail, every baby monitor (!), every ATM transaction and more, and that program is okay, pre war on terror, but this program isn't okay.

Eschelon and Carnivore information:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543118/posts?page=1#1

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1542838/posts

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543318/posts

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21387

Oops - Clinton's NSA spying program accidentally (ahem) captured a Republican's phone calls.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1553101/posts?page=1

And just for kicks, the Commies insisted on FISA:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21453

Flashback: Gore planned to bug America:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559386/posts

NYT called domestic surveillance a necessity when Clinton was president:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1556815/posts

This is the December 2005 NYT article which says what today's USA Today article says regarding NSA collecting phone numbers.

Clearly, Democrats (and some RINOs) have manufactured their outrage over this already reported on program. LOL

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?ei=5090&en=016edb46b79bde83&ex=1293080400&pagewanted=print





2 posted on 05/11/2006 8:19:54 PM PDT by Peach
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To: lonestar67


It all depends on how you define "lie", right Bill (Clinton)?


3 posted on 05/11/2006 8:20:12 PM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: lonestar67

Is this an article or a blog?


4 posted on 05/11/2006 8:21:23 PM PDT by Mo1 (DEMOCRATS: A CULTURE OF TREASON)
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To: lonestar67

No. And the headline is exceptionally ironic as well.


5 posted on 05/11/2006 8:22:32 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: Mo1

It is an editorial.

I don't quite understand why it gets such elevated status in the google system.


6 posted on 05/11/2006 8:23:00 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: lonestar67

"You'll recall that when it was revealed last year that the NSA was eavesdropping on phone calls and reading e-mails without first going to court for a warrant..."

This is nothing new and has been going on for years. Anyone who is interested just do a search on Echelon.


7 posted on 05/11/2006 8:23:37 PM PDT by Uddercha0s
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To: Peach

Haha.. sorry I didn't read all of your post but you hit the nail on the head.. Echelon and to a lessor extent Carnivore have been in place for years.


8 posted on 05/11/2006 8:25:20 PM PDT by Uddercha0s
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To: Peach

It has gotten so easy to call the POTUS a liar, isn't it?

Right in the headline of the column....with absolutely NO proof....

Disgusting.


9 posted on 05/11/2006 8:26:20 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: lonestar67
It is an editorial

It reads like something from a left wing blog

10 posted on 05/11/2006 8:27:44 PM PDT by Mo1 (DEMOCRATS: A CULTURE OF TREASON)
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To: Peach

I wonder how many Op Ed's this guy wrote when Clinton was eavesdropping on everyone for economic reasons. I guarantee you that if you replaced the word Bush with Clinton or Kerry, this rocket scientist would be defending everything he now criticizes. Clinton would be a hero for liberating millions of opressed and advancing the cause of women's rights in the middle east. If Kerry had been president when we invaded iraq, this guy would be pointing out every piece of intel linking Hussein with terrorist and he would be pointing out the langauge in the WMD reports about Hussein just waiting on the sanctions to collapse to resume WMD production. I'm sure he would be pointing out the fact that Saddam kept all of his nuke scientist on the payroll etc...


11 posted on 05/11/2006 8:29:31 PM PDT by NavVet (O)
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To: lonestar67

This is the lead article on Google news right now-- Coincidence?

No Coincidence not with al gore making millions on google


12 posted on 05/11/2006 8:31:37 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("Please run your Biochip across the scanner " Warning ! Warning ! Happiness detected Detain at Once)
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To: Mo1

I agree.

I have read this guy before-- he is consistently a loon.


13 posted on 05/11/2006 8:32:05 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: lonestar67
ECHALON was spying on Americans at least as far back as the Clinton Administration.

The present "revelation" is nothing more than the ceaseless, relentless, and tiresome attempt of the Leftist Propaganda Machine (i.e. the "Mainstream Newsmedia") to disparage President Bush and the Republian Party. It is, after all, the Propaganda Machine of the Democrat Party (which is the Political Arm of the Anti-American Left).

What else would you expect? This is nothing new.

And remember:

9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President Bush and his surveillance program!

14 posted on 05/11/2006 8:32:35 PM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Savage Beast

I agree.


15 posted on 05/11/2006 8:35:44 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: lonestar67
Qwest only major telecom to pass on NSA spy program

And this was the lead article when I just went to it. Perhaps because it is the biggest story? Coincidence?

And BTW, thank you Qwest.

16 posted on 05/11/2006 8:36:30 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: lonestar67

Clinton was doing this way before Bush, and alot more. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just wonder where the outrage of the press was over ESCHELON, or CORNIVOR? Both of these were and are more prying.


17 posted on 05/11/2006 8:37:58 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: aflaak

ping


18 posted on 05/11/2006 8:42:57 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 (** Tagline Removed By Admin Moderator **)
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To: Savage Beast

Agreed!


19 posted on 05/11/2006 8:43:14 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: lonestar67
Those who protest the loudest are those who have good reason for not wanting their communications looked into.

The NSA should take a very close look at communications to and from WaPo and NYT.
20 posted on 05/11/2006 8:44:29 PM PDT by Jim_Curtis
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To: Tzimisce

'It all depends on how you define "lie", right Bill (Clinton)?'

It's truly unfortunate for the Dimocratz and commies (perhaps repetitive) in our country that the U.S. electorate is actually smart, they aren't stupid. All the jizz that the Dims throw up and all the jizz that the Pubbies throw up is taken by the populace like chaff from wheat. They know what to do come the 1st Tuesday after the 1st Monday of November, except in 11/1992 and 11/1996.


21 posted on 05/11/2006 8:44:54 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: MissAmericanPie

bookmark


22 posted on 05/11/2006 8:45:23 PM PDT by Shimmer128
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To: lonestar67
Much ado about nothing. It is a strong possibility that this too will pass. Then (sigh) there will yet some fresh "outrage" with which to beat the administration over the head.

I remember the furore over the accessing of one's library books. Another load of phony cries of indignation. I chuckled, as I booked out three texts on the Koran. Next followed the Torah.

I presume Canadian libraries were tapped.

Then again on various crime detection T/V shows, print outs are shown. These detail a perpetrators long list of phone calls to some thug. This done to prove he KNEW the guy, he said he NEVER knew.

This is showing the lists of the calls, not the content. Nooobody, nooobody seemed to get upset then.

23 posted on 05/11/2006 8:50:00 PM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: Savage Beast
> And remember: 9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President Bush and his surveillance program!

Actually, I would credit President Bush and his war against Al Qaeda overseas -- specifically going after the Afghan strongholds and training camps. The terrorists knew that they'd never get to repeat 9/11, because America would rise up and crush them. AND SO WE DID!

In my opinion, very little of that has to do with stateside surveillance. Sure, it doesn't hurt to know what's going on. But the fact is, we tore the guts out of Al Qaeda within a year of 9/11 and they'll never recover to the point where they could repeat 9/11.

Unless, of course, we weaken in our resolve and give up the fight. Pray that doesn't happen.

24 posted on 05/11/2006 8:50:14 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

It won't. Note tagline.


25 posted on 05/11/2006 9:34:56 PM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: dayglored

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you. The minute we get a liberal/weak president in the White House, the Al Qaeda would be back in business again. Don’t forget how strong they become during the Clinton Administration.

I believe one of the main reasons they attacked us on 9/11 is because they thought they could get away with it. They probably thought that Bush would be as Clinton was.

I also believe that they could be a danger again if our government wont do what it takes to keep the threat from our doors.

Right now people wrings their hands from NSA doing their jobs, people trying to give captured terrorists lawyers and their so-called “rights”. Even the fact that a lot of people don’t even know we are at war and that is a danger to us. Then we have the drive by press.

I think we could very well have some very dark days ahead.


26 posted on 05/11/2006 9:40:06 PM PDT by Tut
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To: dayglored
["Unless, of course, we weaken in our resolve and give up the fight. Pray that doesn't happen.']

We have weakened "our resolve." Essentially, we don't have a CIA - George Tenet is out, Porter Goss is out, Michael Hayden might come in under intense scrutiny because of current issues surrounding his tenure at the NSA.

Furthermore, we're almost 5 years since 9-11 and the important COMPETING individuals from the COMPETING institutions can't think beyond their salary, position title, travel expenses, pension plan, tax issues, etc.
27 posted on 05/11/2006 10:02:35 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Tut
> I believe one of the main reasons they attacked us on 9/11 is because they thought they could get away with it. They probably thought that Bush would be as Clinton was.

You make a very good point there.

I pray that President Bush continues a hard line against the terrorists, both overseas and here. And I pray that his successor does the same. I am very skeptical of Big Government and its various results, whether they be a welfare state or a police state. Our freedom and privacy are what we're fighting for, and it would be a poor trade-off if we lost either of those in the name of security (you know the Franklin quote I'm sure).

So I'd rather see my tax dollars going for stronger armed forces overseas and stronger borders at our perimeter, and have a little more openness about why we protect at home that which we are defending abroad. If we're going to be under surveillance by our own government, there has to be acknowledgement that we're making that conscious trade-off. We lose nothing when our enemy knows he's being watched, but we lose everything when we don't know we ourselves are being watched. The Founders' writings are unequivocal on the subject of privacy as the underpining of liberty.

You're quite right to fear the ascension of a weak government. Whoever finds themself in the Oval Office in Jan 2009 had better understand that we are in a Life and Death Battle for the freedoms and rights that Our American Revolution was fought for! There can be no compromise with Our Liberty.

28 posted on 05/11/2006 10:06:58 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
> We have weakened "our resolve." Essentially, we don't have a CIA... COMPETING individuals from the COMPETING institutions

Good point. We have an ineffectual in-fighting bureaucracy where we need dedicated team players. I'd like to see the whole thing simplified by about a factor of 4.

It's gotten to the point where we can't even tell which institutions are supposed to be spying on which people in which place any more. Never mind whether what they find out is accurate.

That's not to slur the good people working hard now. I understand and appreciate the difficulty of intelligence gatherering and analysis -- I'm not playing that down. I'm agreeing with you that we're very far from the sort of agency or agencies we need to carry this war into the next decade.

We face increasing, not decreasing, battles ahead. It will be a long time before we can say we have beat the terrorists.

29 posted on 05/11/2006 10:16:31 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: Savage Beast
> It won't. Note tagline. ["The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!"]

Right on. We haven't had an opportunity to see the movie yet, though I hope to take the family soon. The trailers have us intrigued, and I'm sure it'll hit us very hard.

Meanwhile, I pray the Spirit of America maintains its focus through the difficult times ahead.

30 posted on 05/11/2006 10:22:09 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: lonestar67
Google is dead. You can see it in the way it ranks replies. It has been bought by the mindless left. Long live google.
31 posted on 05/11/2006 10:24:21 PM PDT by Fielding (Sans Dieu Rien)
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To: dayglored
["That's not to slur the good people working hard now."]

I know.
Here's the important point. If you talk to people from different departments (agencies) on an INDIVIUAL basis then you will find that they're very nice people.

But, when you talk collectively to the individuals from many departments (agencies)...things are much more divisive and difficult.
32 posted on 05/11/2006 10:31:56 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: dayglored
I saw United 93 two days ago. It was hard to watch.

I saw it alone. I wanted to. I came away with a new sense of strength and courage.

The Spirit of America was embodied not only in the heroes aboard the plane, but everywhere--the air traffic controllers, the people on the ground, everywhere in America.

The Spirit of Flight 93 is truly the Spirit of America.

None of us wants to face the challenge faced by those heroes. None of us wants war or to fight and die for all that is good in the world. But if we must, we will--and with strength and courage.

The Spirit of Flight 93 is everywhere in America.

America's enemies be forewarned.

33 posted on 05/11/2006 10:44:55 PM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Savage Beast
> The Spirit of Flight 93 is everywhere in America.

True. Though here in Ithaca, NY (yep, the "City of Evil") it's spread a little thinner. Of the three local cineplexes, only one is showing "United 93". Whereas "Hoot", about an endangered owl, is at all three. Go figure.

> America's enemies be forewarned.

Both here and abroad.

34 posted on 05/11/2006 10:59:36 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: lonestar67

ping for later


35 posted on 05/11/2006 11:16:38 PM PDT by true_blue_texican (grateful texan! -- whoops! I'm sober tonight, what happened?)
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To: dayglored

"And remember 9/11 was never repeated."

And lets also remember that it took seven years after the original bombing of the World Trade Center before the second attempt was made. With that time table, we have 2 years to go before the next major attempt. Just in time for the next presidential election cycle.


36 posted on 05/11/2006 11:23:34 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: lonestar67

The U.S. has 3 enemies in the war on terror:

1. Muslim extremists
2. The American news media
3. Liberals


37 posted on 05/12/2006 4:12:22 AM PDT by eastcobb
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To: lonestar67

Algore was on Google's payroll and holds a lot of their stock.


38 posted on 05/12/2006 4:24:02 AM PDT by johnny7 (ďNah, I ainít Jewish, I just donít dig on swine, thatís all.Ē)
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To: lonestar67
I was going to post a picture of a drug smuggler on another thread this morning. Googling the term "drug smuggler" in Google images the first return was a picture of the president, the third return, Colin Powell.

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-44,GGLD:en&q=Marijuana+Smuggler

39 posted on 05/12/2006 4:53:28 AM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: Savage Beast
Homer: "There's not a single bear in sight -- the 'Bear Patrol' is working like a charm."
Lisa: "That's specious reasoning."
Homer: "Thanks, honey."
Lisa: "According to your logic, this rock keeps tigers away."
Homer: "Hmmm. How does it work?"
Lisa: "It doesn't."
Homer: "How so?"
Lisa: "It's just a rock. But I don't see a tiger, anywhere."
Homer: "Lisa, I want to buy your rock."
40 posted on 05/12/2006 4:59:25 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Savage Beast
The Spirit of Flight 93 is everywhere in America.

Yep. It tells us that we can't rely on the government, because it's incompetent and untrustworthy.

41 posted on 05/12/2006 5:00:37 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: dayglored
America's enemies be forewarned.

"Both here and abroad."

Exactly.

America's domestic enemies--primarily the Left--are more dangerous than America's foreign enemies. In fact, the Left is the enabler of America's foreign enemies. Were it not for the Left, America's foreign enemies would be dispatched forthwith.

The Left is a combination of morons, psychopaths, dysfunctionals, delusionals, sickos, the lazy, the misguided, the dregs, especially the easily manipulated, etc. They exist in every society, and they must be tolerated to some extent.

However, the tolerance and patience of the American people is not unlimited.

As you so sagely observe:

America's enemies be forewarned!
Both here and abroad!

42 posted on 05/12/2006 6:50:16 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: steve-b

"If it walks like a duck etc."


43 posted on 05/12/2006 6:51:13 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: lonestar67
Google jumped the shark some time ago.  Who gives a rat's ass what's where there.
44 posted on 05/12/2006 6:52:00 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (ISLAM: The Other Psychosis)
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To: gleeaikin
>> "And remember 9/11 was never repeated."

> And lets also remember that it took seven years after the original bombing of the World Trade Center before the second attempt was made. With that time table, we have 2 years to go before the next major attempt. Just in time for the next presidential election cycle.

Osama bin Laden sticks his head out of the sand from time to time to remind us he's still around and taunt us, and I expect he'll do so again as elections loom. But he no longer has his communications, nor his network of training camps. Al Qaeda, once an organized and highly communicative force (think of an anthill), has been stepped on hard, and a lot of its members scattered (think of an anthill that's been stepped on). Sure, that means they're scattered wider now. But the organizational, planning, and training requirements for a major hit like 9/11 are much harder to do these days. As long as we keep them on the run, and keep taking them out when we find them, they won't be able to do anything of that scale.

In other words, the fact that the anthill has been crushed means that the remaining ants aren't nearly as effective as they were in the period between the WTC bombing and 9/11. So I don't know that the same time-scale is applicable.

That said, of course I expect they're planning smaller operations against the U.S. and will try to influence or disrupt our elections in 2006 and 2008 if they can. We are still very much at war with these guys, and we can't let up until the enemy is rendered harmless. Since they won't ever surrender as such, it'll be a lot like taking out cockroaches -- you just keep doing it, and eventually the number is small enough that it's no longer a major threat to America.

45 posted on 05/12/2006 7:16:25 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: lonestar67

"I don't quite understand why it gets such elevated status in the google system."

Doesn't Al Gore own tons of google stock and/or stock options? It is my understanding that Al is a "senior advisor" with Google.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114704312621046146-lTSOyMu7Vwq8UGCpmz7VSinWpLs_20060607.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top


46 posted on 05/12/2006 7:39:16 AM PDT by khnyny
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To: lonestar67

Doesn't Google cooperate with communist China on CENSORING?


47 posted on 05/12/2006 7:40:57 AM PDT by khnyny
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To: gleeaikin

That is a chilling thought. We were pretty cocky before, thinking they couldn't attack us... hope the same attitude doesn't catch us unprepared again.


48 posted on 05/13/2006 12:41:32 AM PDT by antceecee (Hey AG Gonzales! ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS NOW!!!)
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