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French Forces Rejoin Operation Enduring Freedom
DefenceTalk.com ^

Posted on 05/11/2006 11:00:55 PM PDT by DTAD

SOUTHWEST ASIA: The French Navy Carrier Air Wing returned to the coalition fight last week, flying their first missions in support of Operation Enduring Freedom since November.

"Our main mission while we are here is to support troops on the ground and contribute to reconnaissance efforts as well," said Lt. Col. Gerard Brunel, commander of the French detachment at the Combined Air Operations Center. It is Central Command Air Forces policy not to disclose the specific location of its forward headquarters or the CAOC.

(Excerpt) Read more at defencetalk.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: accordians; allies; allyfrance; charlesdegaulle; charon; eduringfreedom; france; frenchtroops; lebateaumaudit; multinational; news; oef; oops; shipofthedamned; waronterror
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1 posted on 05/11/2006 11:00:58 PM PDT by DTAD
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To: DTAD

damn, i was getting worried ...


2 posted on 05/11/2006 11:05:26 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: DTAD

Gosh, that's really swell. Things in Afghanistan must be safer than I thought.


3 posted on 05/11/2006 11:11:25 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: DTAD

Are they out of cheese already?


4 posted on 05/11/2006 11:17:04 PM PDT by Buck W. (If you push something hard enough, it will fall over.)
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To: DTAD

predictable anti-French snarkiness on this thread, and I'm sure others will be along shortly. But they are contributing, and that's the point that shoule be taken from this article.

Whatever differences we may have with their government and/or their culture, I've heard good things about French troops, intelligence agencies, and police, from people who have worked with them.


5 posted on 05/11/2006 11:21:37 PM PDT by kms61
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To: kms61

please elaborate on some highlights to an interested person


6 posted on 05/11/2006 11:23:01 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kms61

If anyone think the French forces are pu$$ies try going up against them. Just because the majority are, don't underestimate them.


7 posted on 05/11/2006 11:25:16 PM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: gr8eman

Sorry about my poor English.


8 posted on 05/11/2006 11:26:05 PM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: kms61
They should shower more frequently for sure.
9 posted on 05/11/2006 11:26:30 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (A nation without borders is not a nation." --President Reagan)
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To: kinoxi

I don't have a whole lot of specifics, just that people I know in the military who have had occasion to train with them speak favorably of them. I do know that the French internal security apparatus has been very tough on Muslim exremists inside France, even moreso than we have in this country. They're able to hold suspects for questioning for quite a long time without charging them, for example.


10 posted on 05/11/2006 11:27:30 PM PDT by kms61
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To: gr8eman

reads more like poor soberness from here :)


11 posted on 05/11/2006 11:27:45 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kms61
yes, they don't have the freedom's we have in the us. their jails are horrific compared to ours. they are what is known as 'appeasers' they have as many nukes as they need, which is about 5 times what they can handle. they have a seat at the un. that is what they have
12 posted on 05/11/2006 11:33:10 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: gr8eman
The gr8eman's didn't have a problem with the French. The French thought they could talk their way of a fight with Germany right up until the day the Germans invaded.

To this day they don't understand you need a bargaining chip to talk your way out of a fight.

13 posted on 05/11/2006 11:40:51 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* “I love you guys”)
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To: DTAD

Maybe all them "muzlim youts" rioting a couple months ago made them reconsider?


14 posted on 05/11/2006 11:46:44 PM PDT by chemicalman (Many have skeletons in their closets. In New Orleans, we have skeletons in our attics.)
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To: Steve Van Doorn

I am talking about the individual soldiers like the ones I knew in Kosovo. Very professional and not a bunch I would want to go up against. Ditto for the Germans...just because their government sucks doesn't mean they are not a killing force.


15 posted on 05/12/2006 12:03:45 AM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: gr8eman

did not mean to discredit those you served with. they are however , tools of their government. which are in fact tools against this country


16 posted on 05/12/2006 12:14:30 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: gr8eman

The French military was bummed out that they had to sit out the Iraq war.


17 posted on 05/12/2006 12:21:04 AM PDT by Thunder90
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To: gr8eman

As a whole France used to be a brave country a very long time ago. I am sure there are a few that are brave in the country today and those would join the military.


18 posted on 05/12/2006 12:30:42 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* “I love you guys”)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: jk4hc4

they accidentally put a submarine engine in it?


20 posted on 05/12/2006 1:08:26 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: DTAD
I believe the French had what is called an epiphany, when Arab mobs held their "burn the man" festival in France earlier this year.
21 posted on 05/12/2006 1:14:17 AM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Jesus always reads His knee-mail.)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath

epiphany has to renamed to maintain the 'purity' of the french language...


23 posted on 05/12/2006 1:20:31 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: jk4hc4

Their carrier has never successfully completed an operational deployment, IIRC. It's always had some problem that's forced it to return to port early. The French Naval Air Wing mentioned above is deployed separately from their carrier right now, since their carrier is still having problems and when last heard from was still at the shipwrights.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2003127.asp


24 posted on 05/12/2006 1:21:02 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: jk4hc4

if your laughing at the sub engine mishap, they actually did it!


25 posted on 05/12/2006 1:21:48 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: Spktyr

thanks for the link


26 posted on 05/12/2006 1:23:56 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

So did we - U.S.S. Enterprise (CVN-65) is powered by eight submarine reactors. It wasn't a bad idea to use sub reactors, it was just a case of bad execution on the part of the French. "Ooops, we forgot to install some of the shielding, now our reactor crews glow in the dark."


27 posted on 05/12/2006 1:30:41 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

hehe :) , i read somewhere their initial design could only do 8 knots max though...


28 posted on 05/12/2006 1:33:28 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kms61
I've heard good things about French troops, intelligence agencies, and police, from people who have worked with them.

I've worked with them. Joint American, French and German operation. It was like taking a poodle on a lion hunt.

29 posted on 05/12/2006 1:37:47 AM PDT by bad company (The fight will not be the way you want it to be. The fight will be the way it is.)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: kinoxi

No, actually. The reactors weren't the problem.

The ship has two major, currently unsolved problems. One, it has the spare propellers off of the smaller conventional carriers that France used to field. This reduces the top speed of the ship by quite a bit. Two, it has a bad case of rudder flutter at "higher" speeds, rendering it almost unsteerable and very unpleasant to inhabit.

The ship is currently limited to a top speed of 15 knots, IIRC.


31 posted on 05/12/2006 1:38:49 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: jk4hc4

it's funny either way :)


32 posted on 05/12/2006 1:39:53 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: DTAD

I think if we are to criticize the French when they chicken out, we should also praise them to whatever degree they agree to take part.


On the other hand, kudos to whoever added "accordions" to the keywords. That's pretty damn funny right there...


33 posted on 05/12/2006 1:40:11 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: Spktyr

you know your sh** so it seems. these are 2006 stats for this carrier?


34 posted on 05/12/2006 1:41:46 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

Last I'd heard, yeah. They haven't replaced the propellers in the intervening time, and I don't remember hearing that they'd figured out the rudder flutter problem. I suspect that they'd have to completely redesign the propeller and rudder system to fix the problem, and if they've started that process they're nowhere near production of parts. The list of screwups on that ship is nearly endless - from the defective reactor systems to the armored glass for the superstructure (which was discovered to be opaque after installation).

The crew calls it "the ship of the damned".


35 posted on 05/12/2006 1:49:24 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

the crew might be right methinks


36 posted on 05/12/2006 1:57:07 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

Some of the high (low?) points:

For every year in operation the ship has to spend four months in dock undergoing maintenance and repairs.

November 2000: a large segment of one of the 19-ton propellors breaks/falls off during exercises in the Bermuda Triangle. After limping back to port in Toulon, it is discovered that the manufacturer, Atlantic Industries, had gone bankrupt the previous year. Turns out the replacement screws all have the same defect. In order to put the carrier back in service, they cannibalized the Foch's backup screws.

Though the vessel has sufficient power to run 27 knots, it cannot exceed 15 knots because of severe rudder flutter that sets in above that speed. Reportedly at 27 knots the noise generated by the vibration in the stern reaches 100db, rendering the entire stern area of the ship uninhabitable.

As originally constructed, the flight deck was 30 meters too short to operate the E-2 aircraft they were going to carry on the ship.

After modifying the deck, it had to be repainted, because the paint turned out to be highly corrosive to the arrestor cables needed to land aircraft.

The reactor shielding was completely overhauled when it was discovered that the engine crews were being exposed to five times the allowable level of radiation. Note - expect lots of glowing submariners; the CdG reactors are the same as in their new SSBN class. And those don't have/can't have the upgraded shielding.

In 2000, a reactor test set a part of the ship on fire.

A toxic gas leak took out a sailor and an officer while the vessel was in port.

As originally delivered, the armored bridge windows were opaque, and none of the sensor systems actually worked. Electrical problems continue to plague the ship.

The ship has a much larger radar signature as well as sonar signature (it's apparently rather loud) than originally planned.

A mysterious fire in the builder's offices destroyed most of the information on the ship; there are *still* ongoing investigations regarding corruption and bribery (shades of Airbus).

They are already thinking about retiring it in favor of two conventional carriers to be built by the Brits; it was 11 years in the building, and has been 'in service' only since 2000.


37 posted on 05/12/2006 2:09:24 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Steve Van Doorn

There were whole generations lost in places like Verdun. It is really sad.


38 posted on 05/12/2006 2:10:45 AM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: Spktyr

Forgot one - unlike US nuclear carriers, it cannot conduct simultaneous launch and recovery operations, because of the size of the deck and the placement of the catapaults. This means that if there's a catastrophic incident on landing, the entire deck is fouled and no airplanes can be launched until the deck is cleared.

US nuclear carriers can continue to launch aircraft even if the entire aft section of the flight deck is on fire. Likewise, a catapault failure or fire on the forward part of the flight deck does not affect landing operations.


39 posted on 05/12/2006 2:14:20 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: DTAD

Not to be snarky about the French, but can they keep the thing running reliably?


40 posted on 05/12/2006 2:14:38 AM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: Spktyr

good info, thanks. the crew might be right methinks :)


41 posted on 05/12/2006 2:15:35 AM PDT by kinoxi
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To: kms61
the French internal security apparatus has been very tough on Muslim exremists inside France

The man who heads up that security apparatus, I've read, is really excellent and highly respected in the U.S.

42 posted on 05/12/2006 2:19:40 AM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon

Not even God could keep their carrier running reliably.


43 posted on 05/12/2006 2:21:33 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: kms61
"Whatever differences we may have with their government and/or their culture, I've heard good things about French troops, intelligence agencies, and police, from people who have worked with them."

Also, I think that with the riots and other events, the leaders are finally grasping that their way of life, their civilization is under attack.

If Islam takes over, the French won't be allowed the freedoms that make them French.
44 posted on 05/12/2006 2:28:35 AM PDT by George - the Other (Former Liberal Was I ...)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Pro-Bush
"They should shower more frequently for sure."

That's funny. ...ever try getting a hotel or bed-and-breakfast with a good shower in England? "Power showers" are a big deal of a rarity there.
46 posted on 05/12/2006 3:46:00 AM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Saudaukar
"They still have the french legion who's one of the finest military units worldwide, and instead of what most people believe, their troops aren't made of brainless and rude mercenaries, but are made of highly specialized people, extremely disciplined, who are foremost elected for their intellect, balanced mind and exceptional physical endurance."

Does the Legion still have the policy of shooting any fire guard who falls asleep?
47 posted on 05/12/2006 3:51:40 AM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: DTAD
"Our main mission while we are here is to - snip - . . . practice our white flag waving and other, modernized surrender techniques."
48 posted on 05/12/2006 4:01:36 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: kms61

Excellent point. Chirac and his ilk are the problem. Not their troops. France's military has always had a leadership problem, mainly at the political level. Their forces are well respected by the US military folks I know.


49 posted on 05/12/2006 5:47:46 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: kms61

I believe they created a whole separate anti-terrorism court and enforcement system. That system would never pass muster with our constitution, but within their system it works. Their counterterrorism police I believe are known as GIGN--not sure what it stands for, but they are supposed to be among the best in the world. I am sure our FBI could learn some lessons from them.

A decade or so ago, Jihadists were very active in Algeria and a lot of that spilled over into France. I believe there was a subway bomb there and a plot to blow up the Eiffel Tower. The French did a very effective job in breaking that up, but Chirac is in denial about the nature and source of the riots, mainly because he does not want to admit that he sqaundered the work of the anti-terrorism apparatus.

And, unfortunately, with aid from Al Qaeda, it now looks like the Jihadists are making a comeback of sorts in Algeria. I suspect the French will need the GIGN again sooner than later.


50 posted on 05/12/2006 5:53:15 AM PDT by LSUfan
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