Posted on 05/12/2006 10:50:03 AM PDT by Dan12180
I just crunched the numbers on tax liability for immigration reform. The results floored me. The numbers result from 1 person working 40 hours per week for 1 year for minimum wage in Oregon. With a spouse and 2 children the results are:
Total Wages $15,600 Total Social Security withheld $972 Total Medicare withheld $226
Federal income tax due $0 Total Federal income tax refund $5,090
State income tax due $0
Now add the cost of services per person for health care, police, fire, county, city, state, migrant head start, school.....
IT'S Unbelieveable
I punched the income numbers into my Turbo Tax 05 program and these are the results. The SSI and Medicare numbers are from the SSI web page (SSI withholding is 6.2% Medicare withholding 1.45%).
I can believe then numbers are right. Can anyone else verify?
So are you for or against raising the minimum wage?
I have been arguing the point for years that they pay NO taxes and if are legal actually get a refund of taxes they did NOT pay via the earned income tax credit.
I read an article recently that stated the average income for illegals is $20k a year. The poverty level is $24k a yr. What does that tell you?
They are a huge financial burden. Why we want a country full of these people is beyond me. Even legal immigrants should be required to show that they can financially be responsible for themselves imo.
I don't have an opinion on the minimum wage only used it as a guide.
I was thinking of something similar to this the other day while debating this whole issue. I often wonder that why in States that have a large number of illegals and bad Progressive income taxes, that conservatives have not used that to push for the elimination of the destructive State income tax policies and go to funding through a increased sales tax. Similar to what Texas does. That way the tax benefit prob increases for the State and is more fair.
Adding that this, of course, is only applicable if they receive W-2 income (versus under-the-table cash), and actually file a return.
>>>police, fire, county, city, state, migrant head start, school
These are state and local services supported by sales and property taxes not included in your calculations.
The employers of that "cheap labor" that does jobs Americans won't ......anyway, the employers of these people have figured out a way for the rest of us to subsidize their labor costs. The get the cheap help, we get stuck with the bills, social costs, degradation of our civic culture, and all the other negativity that results from not enforcing our laws. The Senate is about to cave in and grant them all citizenship next week. We can only pray that the U.S. House finds the strength to stand up to them.
Exactly !
This is why it is so disingenuous for the marching illegals to volunteer to pay their back taxes. They won't owe anything and in fact will get a big fat EITC check.
Even legal immigration should be limited to people we need and want -- highly skilled workers that will be able to support themselves as you say. We should be trying to eliminate the low-wage jobs in America through technology, not importing people to perpetuate those jobs.
Even under the FairTax (national retail sales tax), if they are legalized they would pay nothing in taxes because the FairTax would rebate them all taxes up to poverty level.
There is just no way that these people can be legalized and pay taxes without also affecting all other low-wage workers.
We will carry the burden of our own poor because they ARE our own. There is no reason we should have to carry other countries' poor on the backs of our own workers.
These figures would apply to many US citizens also.
What about the companies that employ them?
If the immigrants become above-the-table employees, then the employers will be able to deduct their labor expenses. Think of how much more labor expenses employers will be able to deduct if they did things legally. Employers of illegals would pay less taxes under amnesty, too.
[/sarcasm] The tax impact of amnesty is trivial.
I was an accountant in another life. ;)
Yes, but somebody making a low wage is not able to afford housing that generates much property tax. Also, most state sales taxes do not apply to groceries, so not very much of that low wage is spent on sales-taxable items.
On the other hand, illegal aliens have higher than average birth rates, and live in neighborhoods with higher than average crime rates. That means education, police, emergency medical services, etc. are disproportionately high compared to American families.
There is simply no way the local taxes paid by illegals come anywhere near paying for the government services they consume.
Oops.
"...apply to groceries, so not very much of that low wage is spent on sales-taxable items." should be
"...apply to groceries, rent, or utilities, so not very much of that low wage is spent on sales-taxable items."
They pay NO taxes? Well that's simply very dishonest to assert. But if you want to inflame people and discourage voters of a conservative ilk, that approach is what your friends at the DNC have in mind so keep lying, dissembling, and mischaracterizing to manipulate and fool readers at FR.
You forgot to account for the increased profits of the companies hiring the illegals less the political contributions necessary to keep the border porous.
"These figures would apply to many US citizens also."
Yes, but we are willing to carry our own poor. No need to import more of them.
You just keep on believing whatever you want but unless you can prove otherwise do NOT call me a liar and dishonest.
The new citizens will be entitled to 5k from our government each year without paying any taxes. This will add to all the other benefits - health care, schools, WIC, food stamps, welfare.
The point is extending the benefits to 20 million people will be in excess of 25 billion dollors if only a quarter of the people qualify. We can not do this.
>>>Yes, but somebody making a low wage is not able to afford housing that generates much property tax. Also, most state sales taxes do not apply to groceries, so not very much of that low wage is spent on sales-taxable items.
Well, here in NC the state has found few goods it isn't willing to tax, including groceries. Also, the analysis assumes that the illgals are earning only minimum wage and that only one parent is working. It would be interesting to know what percentage of illegals fit into such a category.
>>>There is simply no way the local taxes paid by illegals come anywhere near paying for the government services they consume.
This may be the case for many "American" families with kids. Sinks (single income no kids) and dinks (double income no kids) are subsidizing their use of community services. Should we put a cap on family size based on income and house value so that no one gets more services than they deserve?
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
That same site has some state by state stats also. In the future you might want to educate yourself before screaming liar.
Has anyone considered what a vicious cycle amnesty would create?
Say the current "illegals" become legal workers, and decide they won't have to work for their current low wages. The employer's current profit margin doesn't change and they can't pay the increase. Will they need new illegal immigrants to do the work that the old illegal immigrants won't do?
You're right. Since we have American born criminals and neardowells, we should allow the rest of the world's as well. /s
A MFJ family with 2 kids needs to make over $37,000 before they pay one cent in Fed Income Taxes.
Plug the figures into your Tax Cut/Turbo Tax and see.
And you can't think of a few taxes paid by everyone who drives or purchases, or ... oh, never mind. You'll be so happy with the democrat control of this nation that you're working so hard to bring about with your dissembling and mischaracterizations.
Your incoherent ramblings don't deserve an answer.
I haven't.
However, I do have other questions. Is an illegal immigrant from Mexico allowed to claim children living in Mexico? Do they qualify for the earned-income tax credit?
This is true! I was just adding to the totals.
Only 'under the same roof' dependents. And most illegals don't file income tax returns, so much of this inflammatory thread is pure hype for an ulterior motive.
He did say they "Now add the cost of"
His point that it adds up to a staggering number is correct.
Another point, how often have you heard of a two child household?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629484/posts
>>>You're right. Since we have American born criminals and neardowells, we should allow the rest of the world's as well. /s
If you review the thread, I believe that you will find no comment from endorsing iollegal immigration. I began with a correction to some of the calculations in the original post. Its frequently stated on this site that conservatives make their arguments based on facts and not emotion. Thus, I think it is important to get the facts straight.
A society has an obligation to its own poor. That doesn't mean we should be obligated to other countries' poor.
Actually they are required to do just that when they apply for immigration status. Either they or their sponsors must demonstrate that they will not become a welfare burden.
I don't think they would get refunds exceeding what they pay in via withholding taxes. If they make under the magic limit then they net out to zero, but I don't think they actually get more back than they pay in in the first place.
yeah I know how that sponsor thing goes, it is not followed anywhere by any Human Services Dept.
Wrong..... if they have the Earned Income Tax Credit they do in fact get back more in taxes than they paid in.
In fact, you don't even have to pay ANY taxes to get a refund.
In Michigan you can get a refund of your property taxes up to $1200 if they are greater than a certain percentage of you income EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T PAY ANY TAXES! (other than your property taxes) This is reqardless of kids or anything else.
The child must be (a) under age 19 at the end of the year, (b) under age 24 at the end of the year and a full-time student, or (c) any age if permanently and totally disabled.
The child must have lived with you for more than half of the year. 2
The child must not have provided more than half of his or her own support for the year.
If the child meets the rules to be a qualifying child of more than one person, you must be the person entitled to claim the child as a qualifying child.
Qualifying Relative The person cannot be your qualifying child or the qualifying child of anyone else.
The person either (a) must be related to you in one of the ways listed under Relatives who do not have to live with you, or (b) must live with you all year as a member of your household. 2
The person's gross income for the year must be less than $3,200. 3
You must provide more than half of the person's total support for the year. 4
Information from IRS.gov this is the link
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#d0e3290
Most Illegals don't file income tax returns, this is true. New citizens who will be granted amnesty and will gladly file income tax returns.
When I put the numbers I only expected to see a refund of the SSI and Medicare. I didn't expect the refund to be 5k. This floored me.
Can you review my numbers? Federal EIC on 15,600 with 4 deductions is $4,400 with an additional child tax credit of $690 which gave me a total of $5,090.
"They are a huge financial burden. Why we want a country full of these
people is beyond me."
Maybe you missed this article from The Wall Street Journal that ran yesterday.
First sit down, take your heart medicine and some deep breaths
before reading:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008362
I was simply left gasping by how a NEUROSURGEON could go so soft in the head
gussing over one of the shock-troops of the invasion that's bankrupting
hospitals and/or closing emergency rooms on a regular basis.
Appears that "first do no harm" goes by the books when it's time to
take care of illegals.
Earned Income Tax Credit.
Getting "even-up" for maybe 10 years of non-filing.
Now you see why millions of illegals were marching in the street!
You would too for that sort of sweet deal!!!
Read it earlier today. That's not news. Hubby is a firefighter here, does mostly medical calls. His response area has 3 tb patients in it and 2 with leprosy. If people actually knew the stats on this stuff they would be scared to death.
That is not counting all the infections, etc. that requires you to go to a doctor. The doctors here have given up on identifying stuff, they just shrug and say stuff like...who knows? I have had several tell me that the illegals are bringing stuff in from Mexico that they have never seen.
I live in Bakersfield, we are overrun.
It seems your problem is with the welfare state and not immigration. Focus your efforts on eliminating the welfare state and you won't have any problems with immigration. Furthermore, you may get some lazy citizens back to work.
Eliminating the welfare state would provide better a better return for your time. If only we could get all the nativists to oppose the welfare state . . .
boojumsnark wrote:
According to 2003 figures on IRS.GOV, 22,024,277 tax returns claimed $38,657,067,000 in Earned Income Credits ($1755 per return).
A MFJ family with 2 kids needs to make over $37,000 before they pay one cent in Fed Income Taxes.
Plug the figures into your Tax Cut/Turbo Tax and see.
Reply:
And you know that they pop out atleast 5-7 kids a piece. They figure the more kids they pop out the bigger their paycheck at the end of the year most illegals drive these nice card and own these nice things and thats because they get all these bones handed to them I’d like someone to throw me a bone. come on help americans for once. People should have to pay to have kids like they do in china.
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