Scout’s honor? Time to bring the Boy Scouts of America up to date

Pasadena Weekly ^ | 04-27-06 | Hannah Naiditch

[fgoodwin]

Scout’s honor? Time to bring the Boy Scouts of America up to date

http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/article.php?id=3353&IssueNum=17 http://tinyurl.com/k96l2

By Hannah Naiditch

About two years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that the Boy Scouts of America could use membership criteria that excluded homosexuals and atheists. It was a big victory for the Scouts, but its rules have backfired. Its donations have declined because it is in conflict with many of the donors’ anti-discrimination policies.

Recently the Boy Scouts made news again. The California Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Berkeley did not violate the rights of the Scouts when the city revoked their free berthing privileges.

With all the recent and past publicity, it is interesting to look back at their founder, Lord Robert Baden-Powell, who started it all in Great Britain in 1907. Baden-Powell was a controversial figure. He was an officer of the British Empire and a hero in the Boer wars. However, some historians also see him as a militarist, an imperialist and even as a racist and a fascist. Two major books have been written on this subject and both were originally published in London. There is a harsh critique by Michael Rosenthal published in 1986: “The Character Factory: Baden-Powell’s Boy Scouts and the Imperatives of Empire.”

The other book was written by Tim Jeal: “The Boy-Man: The Life of Baden-Powell.” Jeal is critical of what he sees as some of Rosenthal’s excesses. For instance, Jeal addresses Baden-Powell’s anti-Semitism by asserting that Baden-Powell had several Jewish friends and a Jewish doctor and therefore could not have been an anti-Semite. He also points out that there was at that time considerable anti-Semitism, not only in England, but in Poland, Russia, Romania, Austria and Germany. He characterizes Baden-Powell as a man of conflicts and naïve on some issues.

Jeal explains that Baden-Powell was not alone in his admiration for Italian dictator Benito Mussolini and that his feelings were based on his hatred for communism. Baden-Powell used the swastika symbol on his “Thank You” badges that were given to individuals who had helped the Boy Scout movement. According to Rosenthal, he used the swastika because he was a Nazi sympathizer, while Jeal blames it on Baden-Powell’s naiveté and his stubborn claim that the symbol meant “good luck” in Sanskrit. Both authors agree that Baden-Powell was deeply troubled by what he saw as lack of physical courage and military resolve.

Baden-Powell saw a moral decline of the British people, especially British youth. He believed in authority, obedience and conformity; hardly the values that qualify as a foundation for democracy. Baden-Powell denied that the slogan “Be Prepared” had anything to do with war, but he was a great believer in military might and saw the urgent need not only to defend but to expand the British Empire. He was also a great believer in maintaining the purity of the white race. He hated “niggers” (as he called them), Jews and homosexuals, and he admired Hitler and Mussolini.

What does this history tell us of the “traditional values” that the Scouts are so proud of? What kind of character are the Scouts trying to instill in their young charges? Whatever the truth about Baden-Powell may be, he was like most of us; a product of his time. Those were the days of declining empire and declining national pride. They were also days when fascism was rampant all over Europe and an accused homosexual could end up in jail. Interestingly enough, Rosenthal claims that Baden-Powell didn’t want to exclude atheists. He blamed atheism on an impoverished environment and hoped these boys would change their view when they joined the Scout movement.

Is today’s Boy Scout intolerance an echo of the past? Boy Scout leaders claim that their core values have remained the same since 1910, a claim that may be true but troublesome. Our Constitution, which reflects our democratic values, does not require a belief in God, nor does it allow discrimination based on sexual preference. The values of Baden-Powell are not the kind of values that form the basis of a free society.

Times have changed since the days Baden-Powell formed his Boy Scout movement almost 100 years ago. Those were the days of “manifest destiny” and empire, when Europeans called the blacks of Africa “primitive savages.”

Maybe the time has come for the Scout oath to represent not the values of the early 1900s, but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion.

04-27-06

[bahblahbah]

Why is this leftist woman trying to tell the boy scouts what to do?

[SandRat]

For a woman to have such an honorable Bilical name Hannah sure is a MA-ROON!

[digger48]

to effeminate all males

[trashcanbred]

Times have changed since the days Baden-Powell formed his Boy Scout movement almost 100 years ago. Those were the days of “manifest destiny” and empire, when Europeans called the blacks of Africa “primitive savages.” Maybe the time has come for the Scout oath to represent not the values of the early 1900s, but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion.

Oh please... WHO the heck is THIS person to tell the SCOUTS what to DO? The Scouts have every right to exclude people who do not believe in God or who are homosexual. You know, if people want to be Gay I don't care...but when they go pushing it on everyone else that is when I get mad. They are not doing anyone any good, especially themselves.

This article isn't worth the paper it is written on. (and notice... it isn't on paper).

[Gay State Conservative]

Why is this leftist woman trying to tell the boy scouts what to do?

That's a trick question,right? The only time leftists will will allow "intolerance" is when someone who's not a member of the "beautiful people" tries to move into their neighborhood.

[dead]

Times have changed since the days Baden-Powell formed his Boy Scout movement almost 100 years ago. Those were the days of “manifest destiny” and empire, when Europeans called the blacks of Africa “primitive savages.”

What a silly argument.

You could say the same about Harvard University, the NAACP, France, General Motors or any other organization that's been around a century or longer.

This ditzy chick should try running her own life, and stop worrying about how other people run theirs.

[Lurker]

I think it's time for Hannah to sit down and shut the f*** up.

L

[MikeD]

Last I checked, the Scouts were a voluntary, private organization. No one forces you to join or buy their popcorn. If you don't like it, start the Atheist Scouts!

[goodnesswins]

"Maybe the time has come for the Scout oath to represent not the values of the early 1900s, but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion."

PUKE!!!!

[Tax-chick]

The values of Baden-Powell are not the kind of values that form the basis of a free society.

Pish-tosh! The values of General Lord Baden-Powell result in men who defend a free society for nincompoops like this writer. (In fact, I hope my Boy Scouts would have good enough manners not to call her a nincompoop :-).

[GingisK]

...but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation...

I don't think that moral high ground is obsolete. The folks in Sodom and Gomorrah probably shunned their "goodie-two-shoes" as well. Only the morally depraved segments of our Nation would like to see high standards of morality discarded. The rest of us don't buy into the author's arbitrary assignment of what constitutes good character traits.

[llevrok]

How is it that the Scouts can receive money from charitable groups for decades, don't change their rules and now be considered discriminatory?

Hypocrisy on the donors part?

BTW - I used to give them $50 a year, Now it is a $100 just out of spite to the gays and femi-nazis.

[Billthedrill]

Hmm...Hannah is evidently suggesting that a flawed founder with distasteful beliefs permeates an organization and invalidates its message, and that the organization ought to be changed as a consequence. I'm fine with that.

We were talking about Margaret Sanger and Susan B. Anthony, weren't we?

[kromike]

Ya know, old Hannah's right. I'm going to march down to the nearest Girl Scout's office and demand to join up. Never mind the fact that I'm an adult male. The Girl Scouts are using out-dated values that exclude me from joining. And that's not fair.

And I'm not going to start my own group with its own membership requirements. No way. I'm gonna pitch a whiny fit and make the world adjust to ME.

And if I don't get my selfish way, I'm gonna blind that organization with a flurry of nuisance lawsuits claiming that they're infriging ON MY RIGHTS to be a 10-year-old girl in an adult male body.

/end sarc...

[Bommer]

"Maybe the time has come for the Scout oath to represent not the values of the early 1900s, but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion."

Yep....until Condelezza Rice comes to a collage to speak!

[MedicalMess]

Boy Scouts do accept nonbelievers. I am an Eagle Scout and I am Agnostic (we don't take sides on the religious debate). In my Eagle Scout Review Board I was asked about my religious beliefs. I told them that I didn't have any. They pondered at how they could pass a person to the level of Eagle Scout if he did not believe in God. I took the God and Country religion course. I went to church for years before rejecting the God view of the world. I told them that I had beliefs. And, that if those beliefs were not the same as theirs, the fault is not in my character but in their inability to form a logical argument to persuade me to their position.

Passed... Eagle Scout at age 14.

[SmithL]

If you want to read about B-P, see if you can find:

Baden-Powell - The Two Lives of a Hero

"Baden-Powell - The Two Lives of a Hero
William Hillcourt

Out of Print - Rare Book

The definitive biography of Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scout movement. William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt was the author of many of the Boy Scout Handbooks, the first Scoutmaster for Wood Badge, and a personal friend of Baden-Powell.


Two Lives of a Hero covers the two, quite different careers of Lord Baden-Powell, first as a Colonel in the British Army and British national hero; the second, as founder of the largest Youth movement in the world.


This book has been published in several languages and editions and sold hundreds of thousands of copies worldwide!


Author: William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt
with Olave, Lady Baden-Powell

480 pages, hardback.

[dighton]

According to Rosenthal, he used the swastika because he was a Nazi sympathizer, while Jeal blames it on Baden-Powell’s naiveté and his stubborn claim that the symbol meant “good luck” in Sanskrit.

I’ll plead ignorance regarding Baden-Powell’s sympathies, but as for the Sanskrit swastika, dictionaries make a similar “stubborn claim.”

[RKV]

Hannah, my son's scout troop has been around 96 years (supported by the same Methodist church the whole time too). The values taught by scouting are timeless, and as valuable now as when Troop 1 of Santa Barbara was first organized. Why don't you go soak your head?

[randog]

If you don't like it, start the Atheist Scouts!

That's called, "Scouting For All".

[isrul]

"reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion."

This is a crock. She just wants to turn the Scouts into a breeding ground for effeminate metrosexuals and a playground for pedophiles. Atheism and homosexuality are not the mainstream values of this country. In fact neither are "values" at all.

[Banjoguy]

Its donations have declined because it is in conflict with many of the donors’ anti-discrimination policies.

Where is the evidence supporting this statement? In Orlando, Florida, the BSA is a community supported organization and has actually been more successful at raising capital than in the past. Some of this is due to the supportive reaction of many men in the community after the United Way debacle.

[olezip]

The Boy Scouts of America is the most wholesome group in the world for building character and future leaders. Atheists and homosexuals contribute disease and aimless wandering in contrast. The enemies of the scouts could try to establish their own boys organizations. Maybe they have and failed again and again. So all they can do is take pot shots at the successful and exemplary Boy Scouts of America. God Bless the Boy Scouts!

[Unmarked Package]

Every Boy Scout who earns his Citizenship In The Nation merit badge has to complete several requirements to the satisfaction of his merit badge counselor, including Section 4 of the requirements listed below:

4. Discuss each of the following documents with your counselor. Tell your counselor how you feel life in the United States might be different without each one.
a. Declaration of Independence
b. Preamble to the Constitution
c. The Constitution
d. Bill of Rights
e. Amendments to the Constitution

As a merit badge counselor for our local Boy Scout troop, I must hear Hannah Naiditch's responses to these questions before I waste any more time on her other opinions regarding the Boy Scouts of America.

[aliquando]

I am strongly resisting a rant at the point. BSA is one of the finest institutions short of the military this country has. It gave me a sense of honor, belonging, achievment, you get the drift. STOP SCREWING WITH THE SCOUTS!!! We are part of what is good about this country.

[JMS]

Where is there a right to inclusion? We have a right to free association and therefore cannot be forced to associate with those we do not want to associate with.

[fwdude]

We have a right to free association and therefore cannot be forced to associate with those we do not want to associate with.

That's what you think - not in the PC nation we're becoming.

[muawiyah]

This guy is gay, right?

Let him do his own cruising ~ the Boy Scouts have no business lending him a hand, or anything else for that matter.

[SandRat]

One of our District Troops 401 was formed the year before Arizona became a State (Feb 14 1912) and is the very first Troop in the State. It is still up and running.

[aculeus]

Atheists and homosexuals contribute disease and aimless wandering in contrast.

Fess up, rightwing, what diseases are you contributing? ;-)

[darkangel82]

ugh.
Ping (more agenda-driven, anti-scouts b/s)

[dhs12345]

Aren't the Boy Scouts in trouble right now? -- Scout Master molested a scout and the scout later claimed it was consensual (yeah, right).

Obviously, the Scout Master is gay and the Scouts are liable.

Wonder if this dingbat would like a hetero male "supervising" whatever club, etc. her daughter is in? Especially, one where they are together a lot and away from home, share a locker room, etc. I am guessing, no.

[madprof98]

Our Constitution, which reflects our democratic values, does not require a belief in God, nor does it allow discrimination based on sexual preference.

Also, it tells us that abortion is the most basic of human rights. What a great document it is!

[DBeers]

Our Constitution, which reflects our democratic values, does not require a belief in God, nor does it allow discrimination based on sexual preference.

A sexual "preference" implies inherently that discrimination exists -ALL discriminate -some choose normality while others choose abnormality. Why do leftists insist that preferences chosen such as colon exploration be the unquestioned sacred cows of sexual preferences?

Society has always discriminated in regard to sexual preferences by rewarding privilege to heterosexual procreatively positive married couples' sexual preferences while discouraging, sanctioning, and or not rewarding unhealthy, unmarried and or procreatively negative sexual preferences.

[DBeers]

Homosexual Agenda Ping!

If you oppose the homosexualization of society
-add yourself to the ping list!

To be included in or removed from the
HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA PING LIST,
please FReepMail either DBeers or DirtyHarryY2k.

Free Republic homosexual agenda keyword search [ Add keyword = homosexualagenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

Is today’s Boy Scout intolerance an echo of the past?

Hmmm.. -today’s Boy Scout "intolerance" is a burr under the saddle of the leftists' sacred cow village rodeo of delusion...

Embracing and promoting the homosexual disorder is embracing and promoting a morally corrupt self-destructive procreative dead end -a future of darkness...

[El Gato]

Jeal explains that Baden-Powell was not alone in his admiration for Italian dictator Benito Mussolini and that his feelings were based on his hatred for communism. Baden-Powell used the swastika symbol on his “Thank You” badges that were given to individuals who had helped the Boy Scout movement. According to Rosenthal, he used the swastika because he was a Nazi sympathizer, while Jeal blames it on Baden-Powell’s naiveté and his stubborn claim that the symbol meant “good luck” in Sanskrit. Both authors agree that Baden-Powell was deeply troubled by what he saw as lack of physical courage and military resolve.

100 years ago, there were no Nazis. The swastika was used by several groups around the world. Including American Indians, where it was indeed a "Good Luck" symbol. It was also used on the patch of the 45th Infantry Division composed of units from the Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Arizona National Guards. When Hitler stole the symbol, the division replaced it with the Thunderbird

The redesignated 45th Infantry Brigade still proudly wears the Thunderbird patch.

You can check out the history of the Swastika on Symbols.com It goes back at least to the ancient Sumerians. But was also associated with Buddha in India, China and Japan. (Sanskrit is the ancient language of India, upon which most modern Indian languages/dialects are based)

[olezip]

Not much in comparison. Homosexuals, like the general population, contribute in the workplace and in their communities. Nevertheless, homosexuals engage in behaviors that are destructive to themselves and to society. Homosexuality carries a number of risks, the most serious of which is exposure to HIV/AIDS and other STDs. Fifty percent of men who have sex with men will eventually become HIV positive or infected with another potentially fatal sexually transmitted disease. About 30 percent of homosexually active men and women have serious drug and alcohol problems. Pedophilia is widespread among the homosexual community. Though homosexuals make up just two percent of the U.S. population, homosexuals commit 33 percent of the pedophilia crimes. About 40 percent of homosexuals have been victims of childhood sexual abuse or adult sexual violence. Prevention, early intervention, and treatment for homosexual behavior, while not 100 percent effective, does work. Lawmakers, parents, teachers, students, and the community at large have a right to know the negative consequences associated with the homosexual behavior and lifestyle. Not a very wholesome lifestyle, IMHO.

[Das Outsider]

Hmmm.. -today’s Boy Scout "intolerance" is a burr under the saddle of the leftists' sacred cow village rodeo of delusion

I don't get it. Are the lefties mad because the Boy Scouts won't wear saddles?

Yes, I am fit to be lassoed.

[Das Outsider]

What a silly argument.

Methinks she needs a refresher in history. Almost one-hundred years ago would be what, 1910? Manifest Destiny was all the rage then, for sure!

In fact, it was about the same time that we had just finished colonizing California, which had originally belonged to the French, when the first Secretary General of the United Nations, Thomas Hart Benton said, "I came, I saw, I conquered," shortly after landing on the moon.

[Das Outsider]

And if I don't get my selfish way, I'm gonna blind that organization with a flurry of nuisance lawsuits claiming that they're infriging ON MY RIGHTS to be a 10-year-old girl in an adult male body.

And in the city of San Francisco, you may be entitled to free health, medical, and dental benefits as well. Get your litigation on!

[Oztrich Boy]

as for the Sanskrit swastika, dictionaries make a similar “stubborn claim.”

"Facts are stubborn things"

[zip]

I used to give them $50 a year, Now it is a $100 just out of spite to the gays and femi-nazis.

I totally stopped my (PC) United Way contributions and give directly to the local BSA Council.

[I got the rope]

Hmmm.. -today’s Boy Scout "intolerance" is a burr under the saddle of the leftists' sacred cow village rodeo of delusion...

Embracing and promoting the homosexual disorder is embracing and promoting a morally corrupt self-destructive procreative dead end -a future of darkness...

That's a keeper.

[Richard Kimball]

Thomas Hart Benton said, "I came, I saw, I conquered," shortly after landing on the moon.

Exactly where did you take history?

[SaveTheChief]

Maybe the time has come for the Scout oath to represent not the values of the early 1900s, but to reflect the modern democratic values of our nation that are based on a system of inclusion.

Maybe leftist secular humanists should stop using words like "diversity" and "inclusion" to confuse people and force their values on the rest of us.

[Das Outsider]

Exactly where did you take history?

Why, the University of Colorado, my Anglo-Saxon imperialist friend. ;)

[Freedom4US]

Scouting is a good program and will benefit anyone who participates. Fresh air and good hard work never hurt anyone, I know, because I was a Scout. Lessons learned stay with a person their whole life, and being able to draw upon them when necessary is invaluable.

At issue, the view in question is of the scouts as fascist, essentially. In any event, if a group can't define itself, then there is no freedom of association, that's what's at issue here. It's really silly, but there's no arguing with certain folks. So, after being kicked out of any location however remotely or tangentially connected with federal tax dollars, look for nuisance suits, etc. Rinse, lather, repeat. Ergo, Scouting goes "bye-bye", even though technically legal. Fun bunch, huh?

[LexBaird]

Exactly where did you take history?

Silly rabbit! You can't take history. You have to study it where it lies until it takes you.

[gidget7]

Democratic values?? Democrats have no values, or character for that matter. (Most of them)

Never have I seen a group of people work so hard to bring down such a worthy and dignified organization. Nice try, but I would rather see them uphold their values and operate solely on donation if necessary!