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Bush Losing the Immigration Debate
War to Mobilize Democracy, LLC ^ | May 13, 2006 | Andrew L. Jaffee

Posted on 05/13/2006 12:56:02 PM PDT by forty_years

President Bush plans to address the nation on Monday night at 8 PM to con the American public into buying into his ludicrous immigration policies. His approval ratings are at an all-time low, with only 31% of Americans approving of his job performance, while "68% believe the United States is worse off today than it was before Mr. Bush became president." Bush's immigration policies would open the floodgates to illegals, and Americans do not approve -- and it looks like the Senate agrees. Another poll shows support for the House's tough and very sensible immigration legislation, HR 4437:

...69 percent said it was a good or very good idea when told it tries to make illegals go home by fortifying the border, forcing employer verification, and encouraging greater cooperation with local law enforcement while not increasing legal immigration; 27 percent said it was a bad or very bad idea.

In an attempt to assuage American concerns about the unfettered illegal immigration tidal wave, Bush has proposed using the National Guard to patrol our borders:

President Bush, trying to build momentum for an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, is considering plans to shore up the Mexican border with National Guard troops paid for by the federal government, according to senior administration officials.

One defense official said military leaders believe the number of troops required could range from 3,500 to 10,000, depending on the final plan.

That's a great idea, except that Bush wants to provide amnesty to the millions of illegals already present in the U.S., and he wants to allow 400,000 "guest workers" to enter the U.S. every year. This is a recipe for disaster.

There are at least 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., and 10,000 pouring into our nation every day. One study predicts there will be 5 million more Latin American immigrants in the U.S. by 2015, while another prognosticates that illegals will push the American population to 1/2 billion people by 2050. Since the U.S. government is failing dismally at stemming this unfettered tidal wave, a group of concerned citizens, the Minuteman, has tried to prevent illegal immigration, but it appears that Bush has betrayed them.

And it looks like the Republican-controlled Senate is on the verge of betraying the American people by planning to push through legislation which will implement Bush's disastrous proposals. If the Republicans are looking to retain the Senate in the 2006 elections, they may just be shooting themselves in their collective feet.

The problem with Bush and many Republicans is that they are looking at immigration solely in 2 modalities: 1) trying to court the Latino vote, and 2) looking at immigration solely in near-term economic terms.

President Bush and Mexico's President Fox are colluding in an unholy alliance. Bush wants cheap Mexican labor -- forget the problems illegals pose to American society. Fox, an arrogant racist, wants to dump his economic problems on the U.S. instead of enacting much-needed reforms in his own corrupt society. It looks like Senate Republicans have joined the alliance.

It is time for the U.S. to criminalize illegal immigration as a felony offense. We need to build a wall along the Mexico border and provide enough personnel to patrol that border. We need to make it very painful for employers who hire illegals.

Are we to sit by idly while illegal immigrants openly march through our streets, trying to intimidate our policy makers, defame our flag, and rewrite our national anthem? Complacency will lead to the end of our prosperity and democracy.

Perhaps most importantly, it is time for the Third World to start dealing with its own problems (like corruption and overpopulation), and stop trying to dump those problems on the U.S.

Take action: Support LEGAL immigration.

http://netwmd.com/blog/2006/05/13/596


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 4437; address; alltime; anthem; approval; belongsinbloggers; bush; criminalize; debate; defame; economic; employers; felony; fence; flag; floodgates; froblalert; guard; hire; hr; interiorenforcement; latino; losing; low; minutemen; monday; nation; national; open; patrol; policies; ratings; rewrite; term2; theytookourjobsurrrr; vote; wall; wrongforum
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1 posted on 05/13/2006 12:56:10 PM PDT by forty_years
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To: forty_years

Round them up and send them home!
Fine the employeers $5,000 per illegal they get caught hiring.
Seal the border.


2 posted on 05/13/2006 12:57:19 PM PDT by Tamayo
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To: forty_years
Another poll shows support for the House's tough and very sensible immigration legislation, HR 4437:

...69 percent said it was a good or very good idea when told it tries to make illegals go home by fortifying the border, forcing employer verification, and encouraging greater cooperation with local law enforcement while not increasing legal immigration; 27 percent said it was a bad or very bad idea.

The CIS poll, taken by Zogby International, is the ONLY poll that shows support for deportation without increasing legal immigration. It is a flawed poll, sponsored by an organization that is opposed to ALL immigration.

CIS got the result it wanted.

3 posted on 05/13/2006 1:00:16 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: forty_years

As far as a Texan, Bush is no Sam Houston.


4 posted on 05/13/2006 1:00:33 PM PDT by zipp_city
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To: forty_years
It is time for the U.S. to criminalize illegal immigration as a felony offense.

Even the House is now opposed to this.

5 posted on 05/13/2006 1:01:52 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: Tamayo

You got it! Ending this problem is as easy as removing the incentive for hiring!


6 posted on 05/13/2006 1:02:17 PM PDT by lonedawg (why does that rag on your head say holiday inn?)
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To: sinkspur

Do you have any statistical basis for your assertion?


7 posted on 05/13/2006 1:03:06 PM PDT by forty_years ('Nuff Talk, More Action!)
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To: forty_years

Lets hear what the Presidant has to say Monday before shooting off with con job and all that crud.

This article had everything in but calling the President El.. or Jor...

Let us be clear of mind, the rhetoric is blinding and not constructive.


8 posted on 05/13/2006 1:04:24 PM PDT by A message
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To: A message
68% believe we where better off before Bush? I don't buy it.
9 posted on 05/13/2006 1:05:22 PM PDT by ChicagoConservative27
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To: Tamayo

Sounds good to me, and if Mr. Bush tries to b.s. us with some amnesty pablum b.s. the republican party is in trouble.


10 posted on 05/13/2006 1:09:44 PM PDT by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: forty_years
It's not immigration, it's migration. The indigenous peoples of this continent do not recognize borders invented by white Europeans. They are simply reclaiming their lands. That is the argument on the other side.


CACIQUE'S RECOMENDED READING LIST
(CLICK ON ANY BOOK)


11 posted on 05/13/2006 1:09:48 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: forty_years
Check the other polls. None of them show 69% support for deportation. And none of them support no increase in legal immigration.

CIS is the "research" arm of FAIR, a virulenty anti-immigration organization.

12 posted on 05/13/2006 1:10:00 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: ChicagoConservative27
68% believe we where better off before Bush? I don't buy it.

I don't buy it either. No Sale!!

13 posted on 05/13/2006 1:11:53 PM PDT by A message
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To: sinkspur

C'mon, Zogby defines political correctness. There's nothing "virulent" about FAIR -- they are acting responsibly to prevent the devastation of the U.S. Nuff said. Done.


14 posted on 05/13/2006 1:13:01 PM PDT by forty_years ('Nuff Talk, More Action!)
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To: A message
Let us be clear of mind, the rhetoric is blinding and not constructive.

Concur. The kneejerk Bush hatred is really getting old..

15 posted on 05/13/2006 1:16:21 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Kerry-Mcarthy in 2008!)
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To: Tamayo

We also need to open outdoor prison camps to hold these illegals until such time that they can be removed back to their country of origin.


16 posted on 05/13/2006 1:16:31 PM PDT by puppypusher
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To: sinkspur
It is time for the U.S. to criminalize illegal immigration as a felony offense.

Even the House is now opposed to this.

If an illegal is working now, chances are the he/she has committed a felony by using false ID or making false statements on withholding forms.

17 posted on 05/13/2006 1:16:59 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: sinkspur; forty_years

The GOP was never in favor of making it a felony, the dems added it in and it was a sticking point -- and, it turns out, was (and is) a sharp stick they wanted to stick in the GOP's eye.


18 posted on 05/13/2006 1:17:48 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: sinkspur
If you think the majority of American voters support amensty you simply have your head up your a**. You are a known open borders advocate so what you say about this poll is useless because you will believe what you want. The truth is, the majority of Americans want the borders closed, no amnesty, punishment for the law breakers, both the empoyers and the employess, but especially the employers.

We know this will force ILLEGALS to go home. They need to start making their own countries solve their problems and quit trying to make the US the nanny of the world. We can't take care of everyone and we have no repsonibility to do so either.

19 posted on 05/13/2006 1:18:53 PM PDT by calex59 (No country can survive multiculturalism. Dual cultures don't mix, history has taught us that!)
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To: Arizona Carolyn

Actually, the GOP put the original felony language in HR 4437, then tried to take it out, but the Dems voted with some Republicans to keep it in to use as a club on the GOP.


20 posted on 05/13/2006 1:20:53 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: A message
And just for clarification.

I can spell-- it's President.

sheesh.

This anti-Bush kneejerk rhetoric gets me riled up that I can not even spell correctly.
21 posted on 05/13/2006 1:20:54 PM PDT by A message
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To: forty_years
Its all about votes. Amnesty might make sense if we enforced our laws and it was found wanting. The truth is we have never tried to enforce our laws and so amnesty is unwarranted. Its a shame our politicians can't seem to make the connection here.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

22 posted on 05/13/2006 1:21:34 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: calex59
I didn't say a word about amnesty.

I said that there is no poll, other than the CIS poll, that shows a majority of Americans favor deportation with no increase in legal immigration.

23 posted on 05/13/2006 1:22:18 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: forty_years
"There are at least 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., and 10,000 pouring into our nation every day. One study predicts there will be 5 million more Latin American immigrants in the U.S. by 2015, while another prognosticates that illegals will push the American population to 1/2 billion people by 2050.

10,000 breaking into this Nation DAILY!!!!!

24 posted on 05/13/2006 1:22:43 PM PDT by stopem (America is NOT Fox's employment agency!! Butt out Vincente.)
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To: zipp_city
As far as a Texan, Bush is no Sam Houston.

Americans..."remember the Alamo!"

Mexicans......remember Bush...hehehe!"

25 posted on 05/13/2006 1:23:46 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (I'm a proud GRINGO......is Bill Clinton still the president?...Seems that way sometimes!)
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To: forty_years

As far as I'm concerned.. Bush is not even HAVING the immigration debate.


26 posted on 05/13/2006 1:24:19 PM PDT by Bones75
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To: calex59

Well we had damned well find some pool of "minority" voters to draw from. A hell of a lot more Hispanics vote GOP than Blacks or Jews or even Asians. No matter how many Hispanics say they are against illegal amnesty they will sure look at mass round-ups and deportations of their fellow Hispanics with a bit of trepidation especially given the kind of rhetoric coming from a lot of the border hard liners. This country is just barely 50% white right now and 50% of those whites are democrats so the NO political party can afford to single out an ethnic group for the draconian measures many are calling for.


27 posted on 05/13/2006 1:25:56 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: forty_years

"And it looks like the Republican-controlled Senate is on the verge of betraying the American people by planning to push through legislation which will implement Bush's disastrous proposals. If the Republicans are looking to retain the Senate in the 2006 elections, they may just be shooting themselves in their collective feet......."

"Are we to sit by idly while illegal immigrants openly march through our streets, trying to intimidate our policy makers, defame our flag, and rewrite our national anthem? Complacency will lead to the end of our prosperity and democracy........"

OH common now, WE haven't been sitting by idly....after all, we have been phoning, faxing, e-mailing....right?
/sarcasm off.

We are far too conservative for our own collective good.


28 posted on 05/13/2006 1:27:03 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (Republican FOR an effectively secured border, AGAINST 'earned' amnesty)
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To: sinkspur

So that's how it went down? GOP needs to start thinking like a chess game in these situations; three or four moves ahead.


29 posted on 05/13/2006 1:30:38 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: cardinal4

"Let us be clear of mind, the rhetoric is blinding and not constructive."

"Concur. The kneejerk Bush hatred is really getting old."

So is the over-reaction to it. Besides, the least you can do if you 'concur' is to stop worsening the situation by trying to spin it, disagreement with Bush's position on the issue is NOT the same as hatred for the man.


30 posted on 05/13/2006 1:32:59 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (Republican FOR an effectively secured border, AGAINST 'earned' amnesty)
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To: Texasforever

There is nothing "draconian" about enforcing our present immigration laws. The majority of LEGAL immigrants are against amnesty, we don't need to kiss butt with a bunch of law breakers trying to force their will upon citizens and legal residents. If you wish to sh** your pants and cave in to these hoodlums and ciminals that is your business, don't expect the rest of us to do so.


31 posted on 05/13/2006 1:33:20 PM PDT by calex59 (No country can survive multiculturalism. Dual cultures don't mix, history has taught us that!)
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To: goldstategop
Its all about votes. Amnesty might make sense if we enforced our laws and it was found wanting. The truth is we have never tried to enforce our laws and so amnesty is unwarranted. Its a shame our politicians can't seem to make the connection here.

Amen to that.

And if you think about the 68% that think things were better back in the time of the Toon, that's not all that hard to believe either.

You have:
45% basic RAT base
10% moderates who are probably all piss'd off at W right now
10% more composed of bushbots and conservatives that are fed up as witnessed by W's 31% approval.

While I'm not a fan of polls it's hard to keep sticking my head in the sand over that fact.

I still think Bush is the master of the rope-a-dope and he'll pull it off one more time...just i time for Nov '06.....I hope.

32 posted on 05/13/2006 1:35:48 PM PDT by evad
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To: forty_years
"while another prognosticates that illegals will push the American population to 1/2 billion people by 2050"

When i read stuff like this, I know that its a pure propaganda piece. As I have stated before Latino and Hispanic birth rates are falling at alarming areas. In fact by 2050 the Median age in Mexico will be higher than the USA if current rends continue. The Islamic World is multiplying quicker than anything while the west birthrates are in rapid decline.

Felony? Give me a break. I wish people would be consistent on this. I was told that the felony provision was a poison pill put in the bill in hopes of killing it by the Dems. Do people support that principle or not?

Compromise folks. Thats how this Gov. The author of this article says that Bush is trying to "con" people monday night. Con? Bush has a viewpoint and he is attempting to reach out. I thought many people wanted the National Guard on the border? This is a dangerous game people are playing. Conservatives largely brought this issue to the forefront. However, on this issue all compromise is forbidden. The most likely result is that the Status quo will continue unless there is a little bending on the House side. However if enough Dems break to The Senate Bill it might pass , regardless of far right conservative opposition. It would be unfortunate if some common sense proposals and views of Conservatives were not in the final version because Conservatives are playing a high stakes games of political chicken.
33 posted on 05/13/2006 1:37:55 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: zipp_city
As far as a Texan, Bush is no Sam Houston.

Bush is from Connecticut.

34 posted on 05/13/2006 1:40:21 PM PDT by H. Paul Pressler IV
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To: calex59
There is nothing "draconian" about enforcing our present immigration laws. The majority of LEGAL immigrants are against amnesty,

You do realize that a vast number of those legal immigrants were recipients of amnesty be it Reagan's amnesty of the Viet-Nam boat people? If you think the legal Hispanic community is going to watch television news reports of men women and kids that look just like them and share a common heritage rounded up ala Lian Gonzalez you are woefully ignorant about basic human nature. Hispanics comprised 12% of the electorate in 2004 and Bush won 44% of that vote. That vote was critical to an election he only won with a 3 percent margin. If we drive legal Hispanics completely into the camp of the democrats the democrats will become the permanent majority party.

35 posted on 05/13/2006 1:40:31 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: calex59
The truth is, the majority of Americans want the borders closed, no amnesty, punishment for the law breakers, both the empoyers and the employess, but especially the employers

So true. It's sad to see these open border advocates here in Freerepublic continuously bashing the conservative base and any republican who puts national security above cheap foreign labor.

The loss of any seats will be on them, sadly.

36 posted on 05/13/2006 1:40:42 PM PDT by MaineVoter2002 (http://jednet207.tripod.com/PoliticalLinks.html)
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To: ncountylee; sinkspur
It's a misdemeanor on the first offense. The second time someone enters the country illegally it's a felony punishable by two years in prison..

Source is here.

So this argument is a canard. It's already a felony on the second offense.

L

37 posted on 05/13/2006 1:42:15 PM PDT by Lurker (50% of the country is not fit to run a convenience store.)
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To: Kimberly GG
Besides, the least you can do if you 'concur' is to stop worsening the situation by trying to spin it, disagreement with Bush's position on the issue is NOT the same as hatred for the man.

A. I wasnt posting to you

B. I wasnt equating the two-I was referring to threads getting hijacked by people calling W Jorge and other foolish statements

C. I wasnt spinning anything, I am vehement in my opposition to any form of amnesty.

and D. You have provided a perfect example of knee jerk reactions. You accuse me of spinning when you dont know a damn thing about my position on this subject.

So is the over-reaction to it.

Over reacting? All I said was it was getting old. It didnt used to be this bad, but then you havent been here long enough to know that.

38 posted on 05/13/2006 1:43:26 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Kerry-Mcarthy in 2008!)
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To: forty_years

If Bush doesn't shape up, Repubs will stay home in November, a Dem House will impeach Bush in 2007, and the circus will REALLY come to town.


39 posted on 05/13/2006 1:44:45 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: sinkspur
CIS got the result it wanted.

Will a fully merged USA-Mexico give you the result you want?

40 posted on 05/13/2006 1:50:00 PM PDT by RodgerD
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To: forty_years; Kimberly GG
We need to make it very painful for employers who hire illegals.

This is key-rather than call Bush, Jorge, and trash him without hearing his updated proposal (It must be updated, or else he wouldnt be having a primetime Oval Office speech)going after the industries that bring them in would be a good start. The city I live in hired a contractor for a bikepath that hired illegals to do the landscaping. My phone conversation with the guy who accepts bid proposals for city work did not go well. He actually said the bids from legal landscapers werent, and I quote, "cost effective"..

41 posted on 05/13/2006 1:50:21 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Kerry-Mcarthy in 2008!)
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV
Bush is from Connecticut.

He was born in Connecticut, but spent 58 of his 59 years in Texas.

He's a Texan.

42 posted on 05/13/2006 1:50:46 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: pabianice
If Bush doesn't shape up, Repubs will stay home in November, a Dem House will impeach Bush in 2007, and the circus will REALLY come to town.

Do you need a cigarette after that orgasm?

43 posted on 05/13/2006 1:50:55 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: Lurker

Think of this they aren't even paying the penalties, such as they are, for the first offense let alone second...bottom line is laws are not being enforced at all.

Laws are not being enforced to go after and collect back taxes from the employers employing these invaders who pay these people under the table.

I see that lately the biggest companies that appear to be hiring and doing it right out in the open are CONSTRUCTION companies!



44 posted on 05/13/2006 1:51:14 PM PDT by stopem (America is NOT Fox's employment agency!! Butt out Vincente.)
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To: cardinal4

Cost effective? Than maybe the IRS would like to know just how cost effective it was!


45 posted on 05/13/2006 1:52:50 PM PDT by stopem (America is NOT Fox's employment agency!! Butt out Vincente.)
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To: stopem
I see that lately the biggest companies that appear to be hiring and doing it right out in the open are CONSTRUCTION companies!

See my above post-city government is even getting in the game..

46 posted on 05/13/2006 1:53:07 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Kerry-Mcarthy in 2008!)
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To: RodgerD
Will a fully merged USA-Mexico give you the result you want?

That is a conspiracy canard.

47 posted on 05/13/2006 1:54:19 PM PDT by sinkspur ( OK. You've had your drink. Now why don't you tell your Godfather what everybody else already knows?)
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To: sinkspur
On the immigration issue, Bush is from Connecticut.
48 posted on 05/13/2006 1:58:24 PM PDT by H. Paul Pressler IV
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To: forty_years
We should enforce the laws currently on the books including this one in U. S. Code 1325:

Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

49 posted on 05/13/2006 2:00:50 PM PDT by gpapa (Boost FR Traffic! Make FR your home page!)
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To: ChicagoConservative27
"68% believe we where better off before Bush? I don't buy it."

you have to remember that we had a lot of problems (i.e. War on Terror) that no one paid any attention to until Bush became president. Also, I don't believe there has been a President in history (other than Nixon perhaps) that MSM went after with such a vengeance.
50 posted on 05/13/2006 2:01:00 PM PDT by BW2221
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