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May 2006 Message from Dan (Author of "Message from a Time Traveler"
Dan Simmons Website ^ | May, 2005 | Dan Simmons

Posted on 05/15/2006 10:22:38 PM PDT by Paradox

"It never occurred to me in my earlier creations of these freewheeling monthly or bimonthly "Messages from Dan" that I would have to write a Message about a previous Message. But it seems obvious that I must do just that. (For those visitors who may have missed the April 2006 Message, please find it in the archives linked above—or be warned that what follows here will be very cryptic, at best.)"...

Other forum-posters were incensed that I could not see the true evil stalking the world today—the United States of America, with the mendacious madman George W. Bush at the center of this expansionist evil empire, dispatching the U.S. Marine Corps to steal oil from innocent nations, subjugate them, and to slaughter babies there.

There’s nothing new in this response. It is a very small (although very common) mental box and it seems to satisfy its occupants’ needs for superiority, condescension, simplification, demonization, and conspiracy. It does interest me that the two people posting the most hyperbolic condemnations of the United States on this forum—explanations that it is actual genocide that the imperialist America and its lying, conniving, murderous president (and, by association, all other Americans) are promulgating and executing—are from Germany and Serbia. The irony here speaks for itself and will be passed by without further comment.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at dansimmons.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: dansimmons; islam; islamofacism; scifi; simmons; timetraveler
A fairly long essay by Dan Simmons, in response to the heated response for his short story Message from a Time Traveler".

Dan Surely "gets it", like another SF Author, ORson Scott Card. Kinda surprising, since so many authors seem to go along with the typical liberal ethos/pathos. Dan happens to be one of my favorite authors, and I admit it warms my heart a little, to know he is not otherwise a moonbat.

1 posted on 05/15/2006 10:22:40 PM PDT by Paradox
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To: AnnaZ

I thought you might be interested..


2 posted on 05/15/2006 10:24:52 PM PDT by Paradox (Removing all Doubt since 1998!)
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To: Paradox

More genius from the best SF writer since Orson Scott Card.


3 posted on 05/16/2006 1:07:32 AM PDT by Zeon Cowboy (.blogspot.com)
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To: Paradox

That was a terrific essay. Why not write him and ask if he'd object to a longer excerpt -- like maybe the first one or two thousand words -- being posted here? It might stimulate a good FR thread and give Dan Simmons some promotional exposure. In any case, thanks for the post.


4 posted on 05/16/2006 1:20:07 AM PDT by TheMole
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To: Paradox
Many SF writers are conservative/libertarian, in spite of the political leanings of magazines like Asimov's and, to a lesser extent, Analog. Unfortunately science fiction, like other forms of popular culture, has not been immune from the kind of intellectual elitism that Simmons describes.
5 posted on 05/16/2006 1:21:18 AM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (Common sense will do to liberalism what the atomic bomb did to Nagasaki-Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Paradox
re :Other forum-posters were incensed that I could not see the true evil stalking the world today—the United States of America, with the mendacious madman George W. Bush at the center of this expansionist evil empire, dispatching the U.S. Marine Corps to steal oil from innocent nations, subjugate them, and to slaughter babies there.

I read the story and found it laughable at best, but I am a firm supporter of the current war.

But the future he described just stretched my credibility too much

6 posted on 05/16/2006 2:09:21 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: All

This is a long read, but a very interesting one.

I have no difficulty envisioning the possible future mapped out by the author.


7 posted on 05/16/2006 5:01:49 AM PDT by Son Of The Godfather
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To: Paradox

Does anyone know what the three words at the end were?


8 posted on 05/16/2006 5:24:26 AM PDT by Fairview
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To: tonycavanagh
But the future he described just stretched my credibility too much
---
The last 75 years of the 19th Century were a time of great progress in Europe.
I wonder what you would have said if I had met you in 1900 and said:

By 1925 all the great empires of Central and Eastern Europe will have collapsed into chaos and small successor states, riven by nationalism and petty jealousies.
That by 1950 well over half of the Jews in Europe will be massacred in a period of less than 10 years.
That one of the European great powers in a span of less than 25 years would massacre over 30 million of it's own citizens in an attempt to remake its social structure. And that these dead would be in addition to the deaths of millions of its own citizens in a great war.
By the end of the Century Europe will fall from the preeminent civilized continent into a shell that will not be able to admit to itself its own irrelevance in the 21st Century.

From the perspective of 1900 all these would seem impossible. Yet they all happened.
The future will be stranger that we imagine. It is likely to be stranger than we CAN imagine.
9 posted on 05/16/2006 5:28:24 AM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: Cheburashka
I will send two replies to you, this one dealing with your reply the second to look at the seeds of the story under discussion :By 1925 all the great empires of Central and Eastern Europe will have collapsed into chaos and small successor states, riven by nationalism and petty jealousies.

I would have agreed that that was possible, a lot of the Empires the Russian and Austrian Hungarian empires were riven by internal disputes.

re :That by 1950 well over half of the Jews in Europe will be massacred in a period of less than 10 years.

Once again that is possible since pogroms of Jews were well known, in Europe, although I would have thought Russia before the First world War, anti Semites was not so Strong in imperial Germany although it was in Austria which was part of the Austrian Empire.

re : That one of the European great powers in a span of less than 25 years would massacre over 30 million of it's own citizens in an attempt to remake its social structure. And that these dead would be in addition to the deaths of millions of its own citizens in a great war.

Once again believable, after all we already had the French revolution and the terror from the attempt to remodel French Society followed by the Napoleonic wars. in Russia as in France we had a huge peasant base largely ignored by the landowners, and a middle and skilled working class looking for change.

10 posted on 05/16/2006 5:46:07 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Cheburashka
re :The future will be stranger that we imagine. It is likely to be stranger than we CAN imagine.

No its not the seeds of the future are in the present.

Lets know look at the future scenario as laid down in this story and lets look at the seeds.

This story talks of a huge powerful Islamic Army poised to take over the world. A story set in the future must have some basis in the present. At this time we are engaged in a series of conflicts covert and overt with Islamic terrorist groups that is true.

And yes there is a degree of cooperation amongst them that is also true.

But in all cases extremist Islam is on the defensive.

In Iraq and Afghanistan we are building viable self supporting nations.

Al Quaid has recognised in both countries that they are losing the support of the local population.

Iran has her own problems, she is fighting her own wars in both the North against separatist movements and in the south against those who are looking for regime change.

In her major cities there have been numerous demonstrations by young people who see no future under the present regime.

For this story to be even remotely true. There will be a need for a movement a personality to unit the Islamic world.

Osama Bin Laden thought he would be that man, but his star and movement is in decline.

Mahmoud Mohammadi-Araqi he has trouble uniting his own people.

Lets look at past examples in attempts to build a united Arabic or Islamic front.

Since the birth of Israel, the Arab nations were determined to destroy the nation, each attempt failed, the Arab nations lacked both the political will or the military muscle to defeat a small nation, each war saw a humiliating defeat and allowed Israel more land.

The Arab world is full of political infighting and bickering as various nations jockey for position, yes they would like to see a united Islamic grouping but only under each countries respective leadership, so Egypt sees herself as a the natural leader as does Saudi Arabia, Iran definitely would, but she has two problems, they do not trust her and she is not a Arabic nation, that counts for a lot in the Arabic world.

Eurabia always makes me laugh, in Britain my country the Islamic population is at most 2.5%, in France it is 9%. And research shows that while fresh immigrants will have large families as they did in the old country.

There children tend towards smaller families, and grand children even smaller as they become more materialistic and westernised.

As someone who lives in a high Muslim area, looking at the local youth there is not much that distinguishes them from local white youth, fast cars seem all the rage, that and hanging on street corners wearing the latest in fashion and bling.

In France, the riots before the recent ones were shown as the Muslim movement flexing its muscle, this is rubbish it was more to do with lack of opportunities, marginalised on the sidelines of a society that doesn’t want them. The accidental death of those two boys running from the police was as much a catalyst as the Rodney King affair in America, where LA erupted into riots.

All countries have marginalised groups including Africa where I have experienced at first hand riots that were similar to those in Paris, LA and Bradford a few years ago. Also because of the War on Terror, immigration has now become number one in Europe with people voting for political parties that will be a lot tougher on immigration and will crack down on illegal immigration. Under the covers so to speak, the intelligence agencies and police forces of Europe are working in close co-operation with each other and America in tracking down groups and individuals. On Iran there is much closer co-operation between America Britain and France and Germany, so Europe is also waking up to the threat from Islamic extremists. In my own country we have got into gear and have investigated those Mosques where extremists were allowed to flourish. The Young man who displayed that placard at a London demonstration declaring another 7/7 was coming because of the cartoons was forced to apologise on national TV and has now been charged with breaching the peace. Many militant leaders have been arrested or forced to flee abroad.

11 posted on 05/16/2006 5:49:59 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Paradox

*


12 posted on 05/16/2006 5:52:32 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Delicacy, precision, force)
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To: Paradox
I thought you might be interested..
You were very correct. Thanks so much for the ping.
13 posted on 05/16/2006 5:58:27 AM PDT by AnnaZ (Victory at all costs-in spite of all terror-however long and hard the road may be-for survival)
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To: Paradox
Have you noticed how much our own Liberal establishment has begun to resemble a religion. To be a liberal, you need to have blind faith that if all people believed as you do, a new era would begin.

The fact that the state wooled own every citizen and could insist how you would live doesn't matter. After all your life would be better.

I can easily see liberal beliefs becoming, in time, more like national socialism or communism. All that would be required would be a charismatic leader who could channel the liberal beliefs in such a way that the beliefs would be required thinking.

I did not believe this 6 years ago, but I have seem how the left wing has become unhinged about George Bush. They are surely becoming pathological.
14 posted on 05/16/2006 6:29:03 AM PDT by oldtimer2 (Every morning I wake up and thank God that I was not born as Chuck Shumer)
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To: Paradox
A long but truly excellent read. Thanks again.
15 posted on 05/16/2006 6:33:31 AM PDT by AnnaZ (Victory at all costs-in spite of all terror-however long and hard the road may be-for survival)
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To: AnnaZ
A long but truly excellent read. Thanks again.

Yes, I am going to have to read it again, I read it rather late last night.

I had noticed on a previous Simmons thread, that you had expressed your interest in his May message, thus the ping.

16 posted on 05/16/2006 6:51:57 AM PDT by Paradox (Removing all Doubt since 1998!)
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To: SittinYonder

time traveler ping


17 posted on 05/16/2006 6:52:35 AM PDT by eyespysomething (When Chuck Norris falls in water, Chuck Norris doesn't get wet. Water gets Chuck Norris.)
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To: tonycavanagh

Call it an alternative future history. Plausible, but thankfully, not likely, not in its entirety.


18 posted on 05/16/2006 7:01:34 AM PDT by Paradox (Removing all Doubt since 1998!)
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To: Paradox
re :Call it an alternative future history.

LOL maybe I am picky, I cant enjoy alternative future history unless I feel its rooted in solid premises.

What do you think of Harry Turtledove, I am a big fan of his North vs South, I read the three books dealing with the Great War, then American Empire now I am reading the Second World War fought between the USA and CSA, although it mimics the Second World War great battles in the east.

Pittsburgh is Stalingrad and so on.

As an American what is your take.

19 posted on 05/16/2006 7:09:47 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh
What do you think of Harry Turtledove

I have not read any of his works, although they have been recommended to me before, I simply haven't found him when I had time to read.

20 posted on 05/16/2006 7:27:48 AM PDT by Paradox (Removing all Doubt since 1998!)
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To: Paradox
I recommend them, I would love to get the view of a American from the south or deep south as you are.
21 posted on 05/16/2006 7:48:00 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Paradox

He does get it. I am impressed.


22 posted on 05/16/2006 7:53:27 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

bttt


23 posted on 05/16/2006 4:07:54 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: fanfan

you might find this interesting.


24 posted on 05/16/2006 6:28:18 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Thanks for the ping.

I will read it later when I get the chance.

:-D


25 posted on 05/17/2006 7:40:26 AM PDT by fanfan (I mean, I wouldn't be so angry with them if they didn't want to kill me!)
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To: fanfan

It's long, but it's a most excellent analysis. I wish I knew who to ping to get them talking about it.


26 posted on 05/17/2006 8:31:31 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Try KP.

He'll know.

Sorry, I'm loaded up with work right now. :-(


27 posted on 05/17/2006 8:43:55 AM PDT by fanfan (I mean, I wouldn't be so angry with them if they didn't want to kill me!)
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To: fanfan

worked most of the day myself!

650 4 $a Artefacts.
650 4 $a Surveys.
651 0 $a Beaverhead-Deerlodge N.F. (Mont.)
651 4 $a Montana
710 1 $a United States. $b Forest Service.

And so on and so forth all day....plugged into classical music, one book at a time.

(and no, I didn't spell artefacts wrong. That's the way the Keyword thesaurus I use makes you spell it.)


28 posted on 05/17/2006 5:29:31 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Paradox
Thanks for the post, good read.

1st time I've heard of this Author, he writes well.
Down to the Library I'll be headed.

29 posted on 09/14/2006 9:28:42 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: AnnaZ

BTTT


30 posted on 09/14/2006 5:23:07 PM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: #1CTYankee
Did you read Simmons's April message?
31 posted on 09/14/2006 6:57:41 PM PDT by AnnaZ (I think so, Brain, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?)
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To: AnnaZ
"Did you read Simmons's April message?"

Indeed I did, looks like some libs didn't like it very much either.

32 posted on 09/15/2006 3:38:22 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: #1CTYankee
Indeed I did, looks like some libs didn't like it very much either.

No, they didn't. Loons.

I didn't "like" it either, but for very different reasons.

33 posted on 09/15/2006 4:48:50 AM PDT by AnnaZ (I think so, Brain, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?)
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To: AnnaZ
"I didn't "like" it either, but for very different reasons."

Because it was disturbing? I thought it was well written.

34 posted on 09/15/2006 6:01:16 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: #1CTYankee
Very disturbing. It haunted me for days like nothing I had ever read before.
35 posted on 09/15/2006 6:06:53 AM PDT by AnnaZ (I think so, Brain, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?)
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To: AnnaZ
"Very disturbing. It haunted me for days like nothing I had ever read before."

Makes you think.
The subsequent and lengthly May-June 2006 Message is where he reveals the information (Historical and current) he used to form a basis of the story, it is here where the really disturbing information is found.

IMHO

36 posted on 09/15/2006 6:38:01 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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