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Senate OKs Border Fence, Mulls Citizenship
AP ^ | 20 minutes ago | DAVID ESPO,

Posted on 05/17/2006 12:32:49 PM PDT by BenLurkin

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To: RonF
****Somebody help me out, if you will. I'm trying to figure out what my representative voted on the original House immigration bill. Where do I go to figure this out?****

Ron, go to ---> THOMAS
http://thomas.loc.gov/

You can search by Bill number, or Keyword, Rep, or Senator, etc.

51 posted on 05/17/2006 1:02:43 PM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: spectre
I forgot McCaniac.

Listening to Murdering Ted pandering to the illegals.

Selling out citizens.

He is such an @$$hole.
52 posted on 05/17/2006 1:02:43 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: DevSix

Comprehensive translates into a refusal to enforce current immigration law and the desire to establish a guest worker program that would put the illegal trash already here on a path to citizenship.

It's a sellout and it's abhorrent.

If the administrations handling of the border problem is your idea of character and class I'd hate to see what you think is degenerate and tacky.


53 posted on 05/17/2006 1:03:50 PM PDT by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Vote for true conservatives!)
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To: AntiGuv
The problem isn't that Bush has proposed "comprehensive" immigration reform, but that he's proposed the wrong "comprehensive" immigration reform.

I don't agree. He is seriously addressing a 40 year in the making problem. His proposals to work harder to secure the border, reform the terribly flawed temporary workers permit program (from which a sizable segment of today's illegals come from) and to address those we are currently here illegally is exactly the right systematic process in my opinion.

54 posted on 05/17/2006 1:05:45 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: DevSix
I don't think you have a grasp on reality when it comes to what Bush is pushing wrt Illegal Immigration.

But that's just my opinion..

sw

55 posted on 05/17/2006 1:07:47 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife) ("The Devils in the Details")..Sen David Vitter)
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To: BenLurkin

I'm sick to death of these conservatives who say that any steps the President on border security are automatically bogus. Politics is the art of the possible and sometimes you take what you can get. And furthermore, it is a logical fallacy to say that border security and earned legalization to those already here are mutually exclusive. It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Both sides of this debate make me sick. One side says only enforcement and don't realistically address the problem of people already here, the other side says that one should completely ignore the fact that illegal immigrants broke the law and that the US should not defend our borders. A pox on both your houses, I say!


56 posted on 05/17/2006 1:08:55 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: DevSix

Well then, you are in agreement with the great majority of Democrats. Congratulations! Meanwhile, I'm in agreement with the majority of Republicans.


57 posted on 05/17/2006 1:09:19 PM PDT by AntiGuv (How is Mexico our friend?)
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To: BenLurkin

""What we have here has become a symbol for the right wing in American politics," countered Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill."

While were at it let's build a fence around this jackass's house to keep him contained and doing no damage.


58 posted on 05/17/2006 1:09:50 PM PDT by EEDUDE (A penny saved is......a penny Congress overlooked.)
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To: Condor51
"unless they drop the amnesty"

And it's not needed since they are combining enforcement with a "guest worker" program.

It will be little problem for illegals to go back and re-enter as legals. Their employers would even pay their expenses to do so in many cases.

I don't remember ever seeing such a crazy political debate!

59 posted on 05/17/2006 1:12:03 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Baynative

we can build and defend other country's fences and borders(like south korea-complete with seismic detectors,fences,infrared,and minefields)

...but not our own borders.


60 posted on 05/17/2006 1:13:57 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (lead ,follow or get out of the majority.start with our borders.)
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To: OKIEDOC
Can you believe this? Kennedy is making no sense at all...What the hell is he going on about?

sw

61 posted on 05/17/2006 1:14:05 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife) ("The Devils in the Details")..Sen David Vitter)
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To: BenLurkin
King said Rove told lawmakers Bush is sincere about enforcement. But, he added, "The president doesn't want to enforce immigration law because he's afraid he'll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life."

Could be a mis-quote. The media is notorious for those.

But which is the misquote? I don't think even MSNBC would misstate what Representative King said. It's possible that Mr. King is liberally paraphrasing Rove, but the comment is entirely consistent with the President's (and Rove's) previous statements about the hard-working, deprived mojados who come here looking for an honest day's trabajo. This kind of "compassionate conservatism" reminds me of when Ronald Reagan made the second worst mistake of his Presidency by dealing arms to the Iranians 'cause he couldn't stand to hear (CIA agent) Bill Buckley's recorded screams under torture. Sometimes you've got to be a tad bit hard-nosed and remember that you were elected President of the United States, not Presidente at large to the World.

62 posted on 05/17/2006 1:14:35 PM PDT by pawdoggie
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To: ruschpa
Yeah I've reread it - and reread it. Rep. King is repeating what Rove told them how Dubya 'feels' on immigration. And unless there was a talking mouse in the room, Rove told them directly, or in words to the effect of, that Dubya doesn't want to really enforce the law.

In either case it is reprehensible. And that quote will create a bigger brouhaha than those 16 words about yellow cake.

63 posted on 05/17/2006 1:15:10 PM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: sheana

“The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

Well, if he's REALLY worried about that, why not send buses to give them all a nice air conditioned ride here. Free cerveza!

What about "inconvenience" to your constituents Mr. President!!!!????

What a joke. Sickening.


64 posted on 05/17/2006 1:16:07 PM PDT by EEDUDE (A penny saved is......a penny Congress overlooked.)
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To: AntiGuv

they are tossing out goodies to try and peel off enough House members to push it through. we know from yesterday's vote, that its essentially a done deal in the senate, without major modifications.

its going to be close in the House.


65 posted on 05/17/2006 1:16:28 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: EEDUDE

He would send air conditioned buses after them if he thought he could get away with it. That is the really sad part.


66 posted on 05/17/2006 1:17:15 PM PDT by sheana
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To: BenLurkin
Tony Snow defended Bush against criticism. "The president is actually taking a more aggressive role on border security than the House itself took," he said. "That is the sort of thing that is going to answer a lot of the complaints that we have heard."

We love ya Tony, but border security is an essential function of the Federal Government, and should be performed by every President who takes the Oath of Office. It is not something the people need bargain for, that will only be performed if the Government can provide Amnesty to 12 million lawbreakers.

As Ben Franklin might have put it:

Those who would let Congress provide just one last amnesty, to purchase a little border security, will get no border security and more amnesty.

67 posted on 05/17/2006 1:18:31 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: spectre
Michael Reagan said that it is easy to hate a liberal.

Murdering Ted is so soaked in alcohol that he doesn't think straight.

He is on a tangent and wants illegals to have more rights than Americans citizens.

Kennedy is a fool.
68 posted on 05/17/2006 1:22:16 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: ruschpa

Agreed- I just re-read the statement several times- whoever wrote that sentence needs to return to 6th grade grammar.

Normally I would say it was a deliberate attempt by some reporter to make Rove and the president look badly. This time though, I believe the writer is simply ignorant about how to structure sentences containing direct quotes.


69 posted on 05/17/2006 1:23:12 PM PDT by SE Mom (God Bless those who serve..)
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To: AntiGuv
Well then, you are in agreement with the great majority of Democrats. Congratulations! Meanwhile, I'm in agreement with the majority of Republicans.

That is a straw-man's argument - The reality is that most DEM's are not in favor of much of what GWB is proposing (nor do I care if they are or aren't...my politics aren't based on if DEMs like it or not). First off Democrats are not in favor of GWB reforms on temporary worker permits (requiring IDs on only non-U.S. citizens). They are not in favor of the assimilation requirements GWB would like to see placed on those looking to become citizens.

Dem's are not in favor of the NG being sent to our borders. Dem's are not in favor of the vast majority of the stances GWB has taken on national security issues (including those on our borders), etc, etc, etc.

The reality (and we'll see this continue) that more and more people are coming toward what GWB is suggesting. A comprehensive reform package that addresses both legal and illegal immigration. That deals with border security, reform of the flawed temporary workers permits along with dealing with those here who are currently illegal (from background checks, English, etc) -

70 posted on 05/17/2006 1:24:49 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: ruschpa

Reread it... The Representative said that, not Rove. That was his interpretation.




Exactly. That was Kings interpretation NOT what Rove said.


71 posted on 05/17/2006 1:25:06 PM PDT by AmeriBrit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, IT INCLUDES TERRORIST SLEEPER CELLS!!)
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To: AntiGuv
"The problem isn't that Bush has proposed "comprehensive" immigration reform, but that he's proposed the wrong "comprehensive" immigration reform."

I have to give Rove, if it was Rove, credit on this one. Bush kicked the can on border security and enforcement for six years. Here is a description of the stunt they pulled off last year:

Bush budget scraps 9,790 border patrol agents - President uses law's escape clause to drop funding for new homeland security force

A bill to bring in 10's of millions of more green carders and immigrant, and I'm talking about new laws way beyond an amnesty of illegals already here, would not have a chance in hell standing alone. How does one get it passed? You need nice words like "welcoming society" but one can point out we already take in 1 million per year.

They had to couple it with security. Bush kicked the can down the road for six years heightening the sense of crisis, and aiming to provoke a sense of inevitability and resignation among Republicans.

It worked on some, you can see it here. Their faith in Bush is in crisis, they are accepting his "comprehensive" memes. Comprehensive doesn't mean comprehensive in the normal sense, but you acceptance of Bush's definition of it. People feel they need to trade their economic well-being with Bush giving them in return border security. Bush played these cards well.

The surprise, for me, is how the Democrats and left have stated no dissent. The blogs are silent, but then the Left blogs are part of the same class as rules the Democrats - globalist, anti-worker, anti-middle class, anti-American. - this time -though it may have been Norquist or others who calculated this "comprehensive" idea. Insourcing 50 million+ new migrants wouldn't have a chance in hell of passing alone. It has to be coupled with

72 posted on 05/17/2006 1:25:24 PM PDT by Shermy (Read my lips. No new amnesty.)
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To: Condor51

WTH indeed!

I am waiting for the Rove Kool Aid drinkers to come on here and defend this.


73 posted on 05/17/2006 1:25:37 PM PDT by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: DevSix

"Background checks"

What? Are we linked into some mythical centralized Mexican computer base?

Don't fall for that.


74 posted on 05/17/2006 1:27:16 PM PDT by Shermy (Read my lips. No new amnesty.)
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To: kidd
Building 370 miles of fence is worse than building no fence at all. It will simply encourage illegals to travel through the desert to locations where there isn't a fence. It will simply result in the deaths of more illegals, but it won't stop them from coming.

This is the Senate playing games with the House. They do not want to give them the full 700 miles the House voted for unless they get something in return...like amnesty.
75 posted on 05/17/2006 1:27:40 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: spectre
And I think you are looking at this from a very narrow political driven window - Where as GWB is looking at the bigger picture on how to seriously address a 40 year in the making problem.

He is looking to address this in a comprehensive and systematic process. Which does not push off needed segments of reform for years down the road. If we are going to deal with this situation...then lets deal with it on the whole.

But that's just my opinion.

76 posted on 05/17/2006 1:27:56 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: lemura

Yes, I agree.


77 posted on 05/17/2006 1:28:40 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: Shermy
What? Are we linked into some mythical centralized Mexican computer base? Don't fall for that.

That is background checks for those already "here" in the States (illegally). Do they have any records? If so, they will not be able to go through the process of becoming citizens.

78 posted on 05/17/2006 1:29:01 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: Shermy

Why would the Democrats object? They will get at least 20 million new voters out of this and a parade of stupidly short-sighted Republicans is handing them electoral dominance for a generation.


79 posted on 05/17/2006 1:30:21 PM PDT by AntiGuv (How is Mexico our friend?)
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To: Condor51

No joke. Bush really believes anyone who comes here looking for work and finds a job should be allowed to stay, so long as they are not a threat to this country. Bush is an "open borders" globalist.


80 posted on 05/17/2006 1:37:34 PM PDT by Robertsll
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To: DevSix

I agree on the domestic.


81 posted on 05/17/2006 1:38:07 PM PDT by Shermy (Read my lips. No new amnesty.)
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To: BenLurkin
Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill. He said if the proposal passed, "our relationship with Mexico would come down to a barrier between our two countries."

If he thinks a barrier on the border will destroy our relationship with Mexico he must think our relationship is based on drugs and illegals. He may be right about that, but if that is so, then it is about time to cut our losses. No one is proposing anything that will limit legal travel or legal commerce between the two countries.

82 posted on 05/17/2006 1:39:07 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: DevSix
I don't agree. He is seriously addressing a 40 year in the making problem. His proposals to work harder to secure the border, reform the terribly flawed temporary workers permit program (from which a sizable segment of today's illegals come from) and to address those we are currently here illegally is exactly the right systematic process in my opinion.

Dev, I've supported Bush on everything including the Miers nomination, even when I did not think she was a good choice. However, on immigration I cannot. There have been 8 amnesties since 1980, and things keep getting worse. Family members of citizens attempting to immigrate here LEGALLY need 8 to 25 years to get here, and if 12 million illegals are given a path to citizenship, then future family members can forget ever coming. As it is have to wait at the back of the line...overseas, not here. Furthermore, these people are not allowed to visit their relatives here, and that due to American law, not Russian. Somewhere, somehow truth, justice and the American way went down the drain when America considers legal immigration, AND THAT IS EVIL.
83 posted on 05/17/2006 1:39:20 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: lemura
citizenship for many of the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country This is the poison pill that must be stopped at all cost. YES, it must be STOPPED at ALL COSTS!!!!!!!
84 posted on 05/17/2006 1:42:05 PM PDT by burtonw
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To: Bikers4Bush

I wonder if we are being blackmailed into accepting, in exchange for Border Security, a "COMPREHENSIVE" package that includes amnesty for BOTH the illegals and their employers, because, among other things, once a guest worker program is in place, the illegals are no longer illegal, and the employers are off the hook from threats and SEVERE PENALTIES of RICO lawsuits?

Maybe the RUSH to pass something in the next few weeks is because the current Senate bill even has a provision that provides 'amnesty' for prior acts by employers of illegals.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1606975/posts?page=78#78




85 posted on 05/17/2006 1:43:38 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (REPUBLICAN FOR SECURED BORDER AND NO 'EARNED' AMNESTY)
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To: DevSix
That is background checks for those already "here" in the States (illegally). Do they have any records? If so, they will not be able to go through the process of becoming citizens.

Attorneys will get the records expunged.
86 posted on 05/17/2006 1:44:12 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: BenLurkin

Finally, something to get the ball rolling.

Now let's get a vote passed that ensures the remaining 75.4% of the border is fenced as well.


87 posted on 05/17/2006 1:44:55 PM PDT by Nasher (110 to 217 million new immigrants - "No problem")
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To: Robertsll
No joke. Bush really believes anyone who comes here looking for work and finds a job should be allowed to stay, so long as they are not a threat to this country. Bush is an "open borders" globalist. HE IS A FREAKIN' MORON, WE HAVE TO GET RID OF HIM BEFORE HE DESTROYS WHAT IS LEFT OF THIS COUNTRY!!!!!
88 posted on 05/17/2006 1:46:25 PM PDT by burtonw
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To: Bikers4Bush

Even if Bush told Rove yada yada- then Rove told King, then King told the reporter...by then it is at minimum 3rd hand and surely you remember the game of gossip. I would be furious if I believed President Bush said that, but I will not believe a 3rd or more hand account of what he said. We all know how the the media distorts things.


89 posted on 05/17/2006 1:49:37 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: Gritty

Good One!!


90 posted on 05/17/2006 1:54:51 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: untrained skeptic
Honestly, if I absolutely knew that the border problem would be fixed forever, then I would be much more open to some type of citizenship. Not a perfect solution, but at least the tide would be stemmed.
91 posted on 05/17/2006 1:55:36 PM PDT by TechnicalEcstacy (Ann Coulter - want to touch the heiny - aaoowwwooo!)
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To: Timedrifter

The media said King said Rove said President Bush said...? That is a few too many he saids for me. I will only believe President Bush said that when I hear it from him. Whatever is going on- don't forget the media is not your friend.


92 posted on 05/17/2006 1:58:17 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: Nasher
That's the big problem here. Most of us realize this is it. Our only chance is right now while the iron is hot.. It might be decades before it comes around again. By the time any of this is implemented, the whole story will be cold. That's what upsets me so much.
93 posted on 05/17/2006 2:00:02 PM PDT by TechnicalEcstacy (Ann Coulter - want to touch the heiny - aaoowwwooo!)
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To: SE Mom

The reporter did such a bad job, I'm not even sure it started out as a direct quote. I do agree the writer is ignorant, whether or not he was deliberately trying to make someone look bad is debatable.


94 posted on 05/17/2006 2:06:50 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: BenLurkin

I'm against any type of blanket amnesty for these violators. But why is the government talking about citizenship? If they are going to cave in, why go that far? A resident can live here, work, go to school, etc; they just cannot vote. Do I smell something here from our traitors in congress? You bet!


95 posted on 05/17/2006 2:08:30 PM PDT by gedeon3
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To: soccer_maniac; Peach; Howlin; Admin Moderator; jimrob; Lead Moderator; Miss Marple; Texasforever; ..
Please stop spamming the forum with your lies.
You have been attributing these words to Rove, and they were spoken by King, and they are not the stance of the White House. I replied to you here

Border Sheriffs Skeptical Of President's Plan ^
  Posted by RedBloodedAmerican to soccer_maniac
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 4:01:27 PM EDT · 19 of 23 ^

better check that

is that a king quote or rov quote

and why are you ignroing what Bush said Monday night about law enforcement?

quit lying.


But you have continued to spam the forum (see below) with your lies and outright attack on President Bush, attributing to him words he never said, a position he has never taken.

Senate OKs Border Fence, Mulls Citizenship ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to BenLurkin
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 3:44:19 PM EDT · 22 of 93 ^

Rove told lawmakers . . . “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Unions Oppose Hiring of Mexican Workers ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to Tammy8
On General/Chat ^ 05/17/2006 3:43:52 PM EDT · 34 of 42 ^

Rove told lawmakers . . . “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Border Sheriffs Skeptical Of President's Plan ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to RedBloodedAmerican
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 3:40:42 PM EDT · 18 of 22 ^

Rove told lawmakers . . . “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Senate Votes to Build 370-Mile Triple-Layered Fence on Mexican Border ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to TomasUSMC
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 3:33:50 PM EDT · 105 of 171 ^

Rove told lawmakers . . . “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Sean Hannity Talk Show Live Thread Wednesday 17 May 2006 ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to hattend
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 3:31:23 PM EDT · 86 of 194 ^

Rove told lawmakers Bush is sincere about enforcement. But, he added, “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Senate Votes to Build 370-Mile Triple-Layered Fence on Mexican Border ^
  Posted by soccer_maniac to LS
On News/Activism ^ 05/17/2006 3:30:35 PM EDT · 97 of 171 ^

Rove told lawmakers Bush is sincere about enforcement. But, he added, “The president doesn’t want to enforce immigration law because he’s afraid he’ll inconvenience someone who wants to come into the country for a better life.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263


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Pinging people who I know have been watching, some you posted to and they ought to know you were lying and some who might be interested that there's a troll spamming the forum.
96 posted on 05/17/2006 2:18:44 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: All

Folks,

Look carefully at the amendments coming out of the Senate. They are moving in the right direction. The GW program is capped at 200K. If that cap is 1) reduced a bit more in House-Senate conference and 2) requires a supermajority of 2/3 in both Senate and House to raise the number, then hell, this GW program is really small.

We're going to get some fencing from the Senate. That is clear at this point. And the House will add miles to it.

The hoops that will be created by Senate amendments to provide path to citizenship for the 11 million illegals are going to be severe. When the House - Senate conference starts, they will get more severe. Damn near none of these illegals will qualify. And frankly, those who fight the process long enough and hard enough and learn English and wait the 10 years and endure some severe punishment for their crimes . . . hell, anyone who does all that would probably make a fine American.

Don't give up yet. This process that is unfolding is moving decidedly to the right, and the House - Senate conference hasn't even started yet.


97 posted on 05/17/2006 2:29:30 PM PDT by Owen
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To: kidd
Building 370 miles of fence is worse than building no fence at all.

I disagree. 370 is the minimum, the House-senate conference can and likely will up it substantially. It's a start and wouldn't exist at all if the base was a bunch of passive patsies, like some freepers advocate.

98 posted on 05/17/2006 2:30:23 PM PDT by Maynerd (Defeat Bush's "Leave no Mexican Behind" immigration "reform")
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To: gedeon3
A resident can live here, work, go to school, etc; they just cannot vote.

The problem is that if you give them permament residency (Green Card), then they qualify to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
99 posted on 05/17/2006 2:31:00 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: DevSix

"I don't agree. He is seriously addressing a 40 year in the making problem."

yes, it started 40 years ago with a bill that Kennedy wrote in 1965.

Now we are facing the horrible consequences of that bad Kennedy immigration bill, and the solution is ... McCain-Kennedy?!?

Nuts.

It's not a solution it's a surrender, that will result in 100 million new 3rd world migrants in our country in the next generation.

"He is seriously addressing"
We cannot control immigration without enforcing the law.
Let me ask you, how many illegal immigrants will be deported under McCain-Kennedy or Hagel-Martinez?
How many? Ask your senator.
How much money and effort are they putting into INS enforcement and employer verification?
How many fines for employers?

Then come back and tell us about "serious".


100 posted on 05/17/2006 2:33:11 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
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