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Cars run on water: Miracle or scam?
World Net Daily, CNN ^ | 05-20-06

Posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:27 AM PDT by floridaobserver

Though the developer of a technology that uses water to produce a flammable gas says it provides a solution to high gas prices plaguing the nation, detractors claim the businessman's idea is a scam.

Denny Klein is president of Hydrogen Technologies Applications in Clearwater, Fla. His patented machine uses an electrical charge to separate the atoms of H2O into HHO, a gas he calls "Aquygen."

"You get a huge energy response," Klein told the Tampa Tribune. "But this gas is very, very safe."

He first used the fuel to power a welding tool, but soon tried it out in a hybrid automobile.

The flame, though on its own registers just 259 degrees Fahrenheit, heats up to the melting point of whatever substance it touches, explained Steve Lusko, project manager for Hydrogen Technologies Applications.

"For example, when you ignite our flame and touch it to steel, it will cut right through it at 1,400 degrees," Lusko told WND.

"It will melt a hole right through a brick at 4,500 degrees. … It reacts to whatever it touches."

So, Lusko says, the gas has the ability to bond to whatever fuel it is mixed with, like gasoline in a hybrid car.

"Upon combustion, you get a dramatic increase in energy BTUs," he said, "and you get an equally dramatic decrease in emission pollution, because the burn is so highly efficient, what would have come out of the tailpipe as an emission ends up getting burned up and used."

An "electrolyzer" in Klein's 1994 Ford Escort uses electricity from the alternator to initiate the electrolysis process to make the HHO gas out of water, explained Lusko. That gas is then pumped to the manifold and into the gas tank.

"The gas then bonds with the gasoline in the gas tank," Lusko said, "and then upon combustion, that's when you get the reaction, giving you higher gas mileage and cleaner emissions."

Why not run a car with exclusively HHO gas?

"We have combustion engines here that have run completely on our Aquygen," Lusko said, "but it would be a matter of engineering."

Lusko says in tests the mileage of the hybrid vehicle has improved anywhere from 25 to 53 percent.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energy; scam
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CNN and Fox News is also impressed. See the video

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/tech/2006/05/23/patrick.fl.h2o.car.wtvt

http://hytechapps.com/applications/HHOS.htm

Is it valid or hype? The CNN report looks pretty convincing. If he is taking the company public as he plans, he will have to have everything documented beforehand.

1 posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:28 AM PDT by floridaobserver
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To: floridaobserver

Scam.


2 posted on 05/23/2006 9:30:23 AM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: floridaobserver
Let me be the first one to say, "bulls**t".

It's a scam.

3 posted on 05/23/2006 9:31:02 AM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: floridaobserver

I've seen it but I don't believe it. It can't be this simple although I wish it was so.


4 posted on 05/23/2006 9:31:18 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: floridaobserver
The flame, though on its own registers just 259 degrees Fahrenheit, heats up to the melting point of whatever substance it touches

Now I can melt tungsten at home!

Who believes this crap?

5 posted on 05/23/2006 9:32:01 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Never question Bruce Dickinson!)
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To: floridaobserver

Sounds very fishy to me. I say it's a scam.


6 posted on 05/23/2006 9:32:21 AM PDT by TOWER
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To: floridaobserver

 

I'm guessing "scam"...

7 posted on 05/23/2006 9:32:49 AM PDT by Fintan (Okay, sometimes I don't read all the articles.)
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To: floridaobserver

H2O to HHO to HOHOHO to UHOH

and yer money's gone.


8 posted on 05/23/2006 9:33:36 AM PDT by camle (Keep your mind open and somebody will fill if full of something for you.)
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To: floridaobserver

Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam!


9 posted on 05/23/2006 9:33:48 AM PDT by wolfpat (To connect the dots, you have to collect the dots.)
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To: floridaobserver

"For example, when you ignite our flame and touch it to steel, it will cut right through it at 1,400 degrees," Lusko told WND.


1400 degrees ! Bwhahahahahah! Why the stuff isn't even soft yet.


10 posted on 05/23/2006 9:33:50 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Ichneumon
Let me be the first one to say, "bulls**t". It's a scam.

Spoken like one of those guys who told the Wright Brothers,..."If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings."

11 posted on 05/23/2006 9:34:12 AM PDT by Ranger Drew
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To: floridaobserver
Hype. Ford, GM, etc would be bashing down his door right now trying to nab his technology were it real. In seconds they could wipe out the CAFE standards for fuel efficiency and have millions of consumers beating down their doors.
12 posted on 05/23/2006 9:34:37 AM PDT by kingu (Yeah, I'll vote in 2006, just as soon as a party comes along who listens.)
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To: floridaobserver
1923 Stanley Steamer



In 1906, the Stanley Rocket set the world land speed record at 127.7 mph (205.5 km/h) at the Daytona Beach Road Course, driven by Fred Marriott, picking up the Dewar Trophy in the process.

13 posted on 05/23/2006 9:35:12 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: floridaobserver

If his name was "Larry", I'd believe it. Otherwise, it's BS.


14 posted on 05/23/2006 9:35:29 AM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Funny taglines are value plays.)
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To: floridaobserver

Yeh, we tried that and found that we couldn't carry enough coal or water to make work.


15 posted on 05/23/2006 9:36:01 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Not available)
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To: floridaobserver
Buy a tank of hydrogen and a tank of oxygen and bubble it through a pipe in your gas tank. Of course adding pure oxygen to something like gasoline is a recipe for a major explosion, so be careful not to blow yourself up.

Seems to me it would drop the octane rating of the gas, causing it to knock and premature ignite, like cheap gas does. Making the gas more explosive is easy, slowing it down just a touch is what you pay more money for at the pump.

16 posted on 05/23/2006 9:36:13 AM PDT by Abathar (Helen Thomas's first job was the test dummy at the Ugly Stick Manufacturing Co.)
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To: floridaobserver
I just think folks ought to wait a bit and see before they offhandedly bash everything.

Oh, wait, this is Free Republic.

NEVERMIND.

17 posted on 05/23/2006 9:36:15 AM PDT by Ranger Drew
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To: tet68

"Hydrogen Technologies Applications in Clearwater, Fla"

Clearwater = Scientology.

That's moonbat central.


18 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:08 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: floridaobserver

What story has WND reported over recent years that hasn't been a scam?


19 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:33 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Ranger Drew

How many of you have taken the time to look at the CNN video?


20 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:43 AM PDT by floridaobserver
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To: Ranger Drew

"Spoken like one of those guys" who understands potential energy.


21 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:43 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: kingu
What you say is true, of course.

But also, bear in mind that the US Military uses a lot of fuel. If this existed, the DoD would be switching BIG TIME. The inventor couldn't stop them. The military, IIRC, are not bound by patent law.

22 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:54 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Never question Bruce Dickinson!)
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It's called electrolysis. Nothing new. If you put a charge across water, it dissociates into Hydrogen gas and Oxygen gas. Calling it "Aquygen" is the scam part.

It takes as much energy to dissociate the water as you get back during combustion. It would burn clean. I don't get the bit about combining it with gasoline (?). Using your alternator to run an electrolysis to create your own fuel would leave you with an energy deficit due to inefficiencies in combustion.


23 posted on 05/23/2006 9:38:35 AM PDT by Rio (Don't make me come over there....)
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To: floridaobserver
The flame, though on its own registers just 259 degrees Fahrenheit, heats up to the melting point of whatever substance it touches...

That would make it very hard to manufacture an internal combustion engine, wouldn't it?

This stuff would melt whatever substance was used to machine the cylinders, valves and pistons.

24 posted on 05/23/2006 9:38:35 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: floridaobserver
It's gotta be real.

I saw Jethro do this on The Beverly Hillbillies.

25 posted on 05/23/2006 9:38:58 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty ( 2006, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: kingu

Not to mention DOE and DOD.


26 posted on 05/23/2006 9:39:27 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: floridaobserver

"We've got scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, eggs, sausage, and scam."
27 posted on 05/23/2006 9:39:58 AM PDT by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Then I acquiesce to the Master of all Knowledge.

Forgive me, oh Potentate of Potential Energy.

I think I'll just see what can come from the inspired mind of man before I lump anyone into the "crazy" or "scam-artist" pile.

28 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:09 AM PDT by Ranger Drew
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To: floridaobserver
hehehe HHO = H20 = water.

Isn't there a ban on dihydrogen monoxide in St. Pete?

29 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:16 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
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To: floridaobserver

It's not a scam, per se, but it's not a solution either. Electrolysis is not a new concept, we ran several experiments using the process back in 7th grade basic science.

An alternator is spinning all the time a car's running, you should be able to harvest any of the electricity produced that isn't being used by the car's electrical system and run the car more efficiently.

However, there's no free lunch, and no perpetual motion machines. The electricity required to seperate water isn't free, nor does it appear magically from thin air.

There's no doubt that this guy knows all this, so his claims are somewhat deceptive.


30 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:20 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: floridaobserver

Wow, dude, way to violate the first law of thermodynamics. High five!


31 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:43 AM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: Ranger Drew
I just think folks ought to wait a bit and see before they offhandedly bash everything.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but a close friend e-mailed me this guy's pitch last week and asked me if he (my friend) should invest in this "cold flame that can melt tungsten" guy. I checked it out at some length, after first watching his video. And having done so, I can say, in all confidence, and with essentially zero chance of being wrong, now, and forever, that this... is... a...

Scam.

32 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:51 AM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: floridaobserver
Americans are so inventive. When there's a problem we solve them. High gas prices is a problem. So we've got many Americans dealing with this problem with alternative fuels.

In California some men have developed an electric hybrid car. The batteries are much better than what the auto industry are using...stands heads above the batteries Toyota is using. The cars go 100 miles on one charge at speeds we're use to. They've pulled the batteries out of the Toyota's and used the other batteries. You only have to fill your car up with gas around every 6 wks. They've got kits to change any car to this hybrid car. Kits are around $10,000.

33 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:52 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc. 10:2)
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To: ClearCase_guy

For the record, this company is developing a Humvee with this process for the Department of Defense. He also has been contacted by Lockheed and General Dynamics.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/tech/2006/05/23/patrick.fl.h2o.car.wtvt


34 posted on 05/23/2006 9:40:57 AM PDT by floridaobserver
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To: Ichneumon
Let me be the first one to say, "bulls**t".

It's a scam.

You are far from the first because this keeps geting posted as it slithers its way through the Media.

A cynical fraud of the type that aways surfaces as soon as energy costs rise, the only saving grace is that when this one relieves idiots of their money, at least the funds will stay here, rather than Nigeria.

35 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:07 AM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: trashcanbred
Isn't there a ban on dihydrogen monoxide in St. Pete?

They're pumping it into schools! There's even talk about putting it in ice cream, Mandrake...children's ice cream! It's monstrous...

36 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:37 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Now I can melt tungsten at home!

Is this the same flame that if you touch it to your hand it won't burn you?? Sigh...
37 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:45 AM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: floridaobserver


Heck, this one doesn't even need water...
38 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:57 AM PDT by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: floridaobserver

NEWS FLASH!!!!! Algore to announce new miracle technology: new auto engine to run on gaseous effusions from Democrats! Global warming crisis solved by miracle engine which absorbs all Democratic gases and runs with 100% efficiency. Special IPO to allow liberals to invest first with no risk, guaranteed rewards.


39 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:58 AM PDT by Enchante (General Hayden: I've Never Taken a Domestic Flight That Landed in Waziristan!)
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To: ClearCase_guy
But also, bear in mind that the US Military uses a lot of fuel. If this existed, the DoD would be switching BIG TIME. The inventor couldn't stop them. The military, IIRC, are not bound by patent law.

I don't know of any current military application of the honeycomb graphite batteries from Caterpillar yet, and that's it's own revolution in the manner of replacing lead acid batteries, but yeah, the DoD would be most interested in this technology, especially for unmanned platforms that need to have maximum aloft time.
40 posted on 05/23/2006 9:42:07 AM PDT by kingu (Yeah, I'll vote in 2006, just as soon as a party comes along who listens.)
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To: floridaobserver

SCAM!

A fuel that reacts to whatever it touches, going from 259F to 4500F depending on the melting point? SCAM!

I don't need any shares of his stock.


41 posted on 05/23/2006 9:42:15 AM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: floridaobserver

It grants an increase in gas mileage. Looks real enough to me. Take that Saudi Arabia.


42 posted on 05/23/2006 9:43:03 AM PDT by bolobaby
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To: Ranger Drew
Check this out, it's a scam according to (I know...I know) Wikipedia:::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer

43 posted on 05/23/2006 9:43:07 AM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: Nightshift

PING


44 posted on 05/23/2006 9:43:08 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: floridaobserver
Sounds like Brown's Gas.
45 posted on 05/23/2006 9:43:38 AM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: floridaobserver

HHO? LOL. That is just writing H2O differently. Basically what this article is saying is that you will increase the BTU in your gasoline by injecting it with STEAM. I call Bull**** on that one.


46 posted on 05/23/2006 9:44:20 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (There are no trophies for winning wars. Only consequences for losing them.)
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To: floridaobserver
This was posted months ago.
And I'll repeat my response. Chemically, H2O bonds as H-O-H, in that order. Oxygen links twice and Hydrogen links once. You can't make H-H-O -- that would be linking one hydrogren atom to two other atoms. It could be split into ionized H and HO, but that's not what is being claimed.

Someone then told me that I had it all wrong, but couldn't offer a valid counter-argument, or point to a flaw in my reasoning.

TS

47 posted on 05/23/2006 9:44:38 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Without spoilers, do you think (blabberblabber) killed (mumblemumble) or not?)
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To: wolfpat

Excuse me, did you say scam?


48 posted on 05/23/2006 9:45:46 AM PDT by wireman
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To: Ranger Drew
I just think folks ought to wait a bit and see before they offhandedly bash everything.

This thread has certainly earned it. I don't know how many other engineers are here, but being one myself I'd say that there is nothing remotely true or scientifically sound in this. IMO, this sets an even lower bar for CNN.
49 posted on 05/23/2006 9:46:31 AM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: floridaobserver

Why would you have to pump the gas to both the manifold and the gas tank. One or the other should accomplish the desired result.


50 posted on 05/23/2006 9:46:31 AM PDT by khenrich ( Hillary Clinton is focused on the legacy of Hillary Clinton.)
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