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Why isn't Socialism Dead (Forbes version)
Forbes ^ | 5/6/6 | Rich Karlgaard

Posted on 05/23/2006 9:42:55 AM PDT by CharlieOK1

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I was reading this in my Forbes the other day, and thought it would provide for an interesting discussion.
1 posted on 05/23/2006 9:42:56 AM PDT by CharlieOK1
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To: CharlieOK1

"Harris says free-market capitalism needs a "transformative myth of its own" to fight the myth of revolutionary socialism."

No, we have the truth---we don't need a myth.

What we need to do is recognize that the reason Socialism is alive around the world is because Russian agents have been promoting it since 1917.


2 posted on 05/23/2006 9:45:34 AM PDT by strategofr (H-mentor:"pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it"Hillary's Secret War,Poe,p.198)
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To: CharlieOK1

Well America is a socialists country to some degree, although less so than other nations. The notion that socialism is dead is silly. What needs to be done is to reduce the Socialists tendancies in this country and not follow the Euro-wennies into the bottomless pit of being a mostly socialist country.


3 posted on 05/23/2006 9:48:23 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: CharlieOK1
Why isn't Socialism Dead?

Because many people want something for nothing and the "snake oil politicians" that will promise it to them.

4 posted on 05/23/2006 9:51:26 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: CharlieOK1

I'm starting to think that people need to be throttled in the hell that socialism / communism provides once in a while to remind them what real freedom is worth.


5 posted on 05/23/2006 9:53:14 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Amnesia is a train of thought.)
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To: CharlieOK1
The reason why socialism is still alive is that it is beneficial to some capitalists.

In a truly free market, anyone can purchase anything they want so long as it is legal.

One of the things one can purchase is more government control of one's competitors. One can also purchase the laws themselves, i.e. make something illegal that was legal or vice-versa.

It behooves some people and organizations to purchase socialist taxes, controls, and regulations in the free market and so they are purchased.

Unless our free market is limited such that certain purchases are prohibited (i.e. lobbying, secret contracts, constraints on trade, etc.) then we will continue to have all of the socialism that big business, big labor, and big political parties can afford.

6 posted on 05/23/2006 9:57:13 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: CharlieOK1
"Why are the people in Bolivia and Venezuela responding so enthusiastically to the socialist siren-songs of Evo Morales and Hugo Chávez, instead of heeding the eminently rational counsel...?

It's because:
1) they gots to have they benefits; and
2) they are so stupid that they are enthralled by candies and cigars handed out from a flatbed trailer -- so that's about all the benefit they get; and
3) they, like dumbasses from the past 100 years, like the sound of taking from the rich and giving to the poor (although they never see a dime of it; still, it sounds good, so they take to the streets and carry their dumbass placards in favor of _____...)

7 posted on 05/23/2006 10:00:06 AM PDT by Migraine (...diversity is great (until it happens to you)...)
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To: CharlieOK1

it means well. that counts more than results with those lacking Y chromasomes...


8 posted on 05/23/2006 10:03:46 AM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: Personal Responsibility

ask the Poles. They understand completely and won't let it happen again.


9 posted on 05/23/2006 10:05:39 AM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
If a capitalist buys government intervention or influence in the free market, then they are no longer capitalists, but oligarchs/fascists.

The failure isn't necessarily the "greedy businessmen" either, it's the even "greedier" politician who points the government gun and pens the laws that restrict the markets.

10 posted on 05/23/2006 10:07:06 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: CharlieOK1

The only problem with this article is that Google is the perfect example of socialist hypocrisy, not capitalist success. Their employees give more money to MoveOn.org than those of any other company, they help the Chinese track down and jail/torture/kill dissidents, and they block conservative web sites with wild abandon. They are just like socialist political leaders around the world, proclaiming the glorious revolution while driving $300,000 Bentleys and living in giant mansions surrounded by armed guards.


11 posted on 05/23/2006 10:13:02 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (This tagline is false.)
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To: CharlieOK1

Interesting.... I wonder why many corporate executives who first benefit from capitalism support socialism such as George Soros as a very good example ?


12 posted on 05/23/2006 10:21:07 AM PDT by CORedneck
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To: CharlieOK1
A better take by Eric Hoffer:

"There are many who find the burdens, the anxiety, and the isolation of an individual existence unbearable. His is particularly true when the opportunities for self-advancement are relatively meager, and one's individual interests and prospects do not seem worth living for. Such persons sooner or later turn their backs on an individual existence and strive to acquire a sense of worth and a purpose by an identification with a holy cause, a leader, or a movement. The faith and pride they derive from such an identification serve them as substitutes for the unattainable self-confidence and self-respect.

"However different the holy causes people die for, they perhaps die basically for the same thing.

13 posted on 05/23/2006 10:29:54 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: CORedneck
I wonder why many corporate executives who first benefit from capitalism support socialism such as George Soros as a very good example

because their assets are in tax-free offshore accounts, or they have the means to have accountants create tax shields for them. No matter how high tax rates go, it only hurts the people below them. So, in that way it actually makes them richer by comparison, because no one can catch up.

14 posted on 05/23/2006 10:39:23 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (Did you get that thing I sent ya?)
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To: Dead Corpse
You can't have it both ways.

Either we have a theoretically free market where everything can be bought and sold, including barriers to trade, more government, etc. OR

we have a "in the long run" free market where certain things cannot be purchased for the sake of the freedom of the market.

You can't just hope that participants in the market won't purchase certain things. People being as they are, if they can make more money buying socialism than investing in capital, they will buy socialism all the time!

15 posted on 05/23/2006 10:49:37 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: CharlieOK1

"The reason this country continues its drift toward socialism and big nanny government is because too many people vote in the expectation of getting something for nothing, not because they have a concern for what is good for the country... If children were forced to learn about the Constitution, about how government works, about how this nation came into being, about taxes and about how government forever threatens the cause of liberty perhaps we wouldn't see so many foolish ideas coming out of the mouths of silly old men." —Lyn Nofziger


16 posted on 05/23/2006 10:52:42 AM PDT by PsyOp (The commonwealth is theirs who hold the arms.... - Aristotle.)
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To: CharlieOK1
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas, six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate and one of the founders of the ACLU.

17 posted on 05/23/2006 10:54:28 AM PDT by NewLand (Posting against liberalism since the 20th century!)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Sure you can. Purchasing the freedom of someone else denies them their equal right of action. Make it illegal for government to restrict the free market and who are you going to buy influence from?

This isn't rocket surgery.

18 posted on 05/23/2006 10:57:22 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: CharlieOK1

Read my tag line, that is why socialism is not dead!


19 posted on 05/23/2006 10:57:55 AM PDT by cpdiii (Socialism is popular with the ruling class. It gives legitimacy to tyranny and despotism.)
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To: CharlieOK1

In philosophy, the discipline and profession, not the general catch-all, marxism is dead and gone, and much socialism with it. The problem is that philosophy is and has been at a crossroads for several years and it is not clear what direction it will go. In the meantime, the stepchildren of philosophy, politics and economics, continue to operate on what philosophy was 80-100 years ago. When philosophy finally gets moving again the stepchildren will eventually follow several decades behind. Thus, there will be several decades at least before anachronisms such as socialism finally get retired.


20 posted on 05/23/2006 11:03:33 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
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