Skip to comments.Greek, Turkish Jets Collide Over Aegean
Posted on 05/23/2006 11:57:14 AM PDT by nuconvert
Greek, Turkish Jets Collide Over Aegean
By DEREK GATOPOULOS,
Associated Press Writer
Warplanes from Greece and Turkey collided over the Aegean Sea as they shadowed each other Tuesday in disputed airspace, and officials said the Turkish pilot was rescued unhurt.
There were conflicting reports on the fate of the Greek pilot. A Turkish Foreign Ministry statement said the Greek pilot had died, but officials in Athens said a rescue operation was still under way.
The two F-16 fighter jets collided over international waters near the island of Karpathos after two Greek jets intercepted two Turkish warplanes, military officials from both countries said.
Greek officials claimed the Turkish planes were acting as escorts to an R-F4 photo-reconnaissance plane.
Fighter planes from the two NATO members frequently intercept each other over the Aegean, mostly in areas of disputed airspace. Long-standing disputes over airspace and territorial rights in the Aegean have nearly led to three wars between them since 1974.
The Greek and Turkish military chiefs as well as both nations foreign ministers spoke shortly after the crash and said it would not escalate tensions.
Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis and her Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gull "expressed their regret for today's incident and agreed that this incident must not affect the two countries' goal of improving their relations," the Greek Foreign Ministry said.
Aerial intercepts were especially common during the 1980s and 1990s, fueling fears they could trigger hostilities between the two countries, because the fighter jets were often armed.
Greece says its national airspace extends to 10 miles, but Turkey recognizes only six miles the same distance as territorial waters.
The Turkish military said its pilot, 1st Lt. Halil Ibrahim Ozdemir, was rescued unhurt by a merchant ship and put on a Turkish military helicopter.
The Greek statement said the planes collided at 27,000 feet after the Turkish jets "violated air traffic rules."
Greek military officials said the Turkish plane caused the collision by a "sudden maneuver." Evangelos Antonaros, a Greek government spokesman, described the crash as "a particularly unfortunate incident."
Relations between Greece and Turkey have been steadily deteriorating in recent months, despite Athens' promotion of Turkey's candidacy to join the European Union and Premier Costas Caramanalis' personal friendship with Turkish Premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Observers said neither country would want tensions to mount given that the lucrative tourism season is about to begin.
"Tension would be catastrophic for both countries' tourism industries," said Theodore Couloumbis, director of the Greek think tank ELIAMEP. "I don't think this incident will lead to an escalation."
The Greek jet was based at Souda Air Force base on the island of Crete. Karpathos, in the southeast Aegean, is about 270 miles from Athens.
Associated Press Writer Benjamin Harvey in Turkey and Nicholas Paphitis in Athens contributed to this report.
Well, they won't make it to Top Gun.
I told you not to execute that roll in close proximity....
Take away their toys. They obviously can't play together.
Guess they busted their Intercept Quals
This is a DAILY event.
Turkish incursions are a regular.
There are oil reserves in the Aegean and creating a dispute is an effort for turkey to lay claim to oil reserve access.
That is the EU's future member....
Two objects cannot occupy the the same space at the same time...........
You know...if they could just forget that whole "Helen of Troy" thing...
Talk about a game of chicken.......
"After all accounts have been settled, it was the Greeks' fault."
The USA did this every day with the soviet union.
And we still do it to China....at least
Technically, both of these countries have just sullied the F-16s PERFECT air-to-air record. Prior to this, no F-16 has lost a live air-to-air engagement.
Now for the $64K question; Which side will claim credit for the kill?
Turks are constantly harrassing coastal waters and those in ships and intruding on Greek airspace. It's a wonder and a credit to them that the Greeks have not demanded more forceful action against the Muslim Turks.
Why did I think that the headline was the start of a joke?
Well, that little tift cost both countries a pretty penny. I hope We don't ever have to depend on NATO!
There you go, having to throw in religion.
These is no reason you need to bring up the fact that these backstabbing worthless turdlike turks are mooselimbs.
Just because they turned their backs on American soldiers during the invasion of Iraq for lucre. For money, for a larger bribe, for a shakedown, filthy pigs.
Technically - they both get a kill
the record stands.
Guess they need to buy some F-35's to replace them.
Lockheed's stock rises again.
Okie dokie...I won't call them Muslim Turks...from now on I will call them by a more deserving epithet---filthy lying brutish Mohameddan Turks.
Jeez, even their planes hate each other...
Sheesh! It was a Trojan War joke.
What's that got to do with anything?
stick to the darwinoid postings...you do slightly better there.
They really hate each other.
Wouldn't take to much for them to be a war with each other.
Well you may say Daily event. As greeks would believe their own goverments that turkish jets incursions of the greek airspace , turks tend to believe the turkish goverment. Whatever the truth is , because i neither trust turkish nor greek goverments. In each different case one of the goverment may be right but i do not think in all cases greeks or turkish are right everytime..That does not make a sense with me.
But what the politicians Should think and what politians should find a solution is , obviously there is a problem in that region and this has to be solved. I remember father Papandrau ( sorry for the spelling ) he indexed all the greek and turkish problems to the Cyprus issue. I remember his son very well that he is the one with Ismail Cem to ease the relations between two countries. I mean if we dont talk these problems this type of incidents will keep on happening unfortunately.. I have been to Greece 5 times and i have seen that most people have no problem with Turks and Turkey. And turkish and greeks really look similar in the way they act or talk. Both people living on the each side of the Aegean sea are demanding peace and prosperity. But if we dont learn to live together this will stay like an utopia.
And future member of EU...Turkey..Well i do not think so. Because Europeans will never accept Turkey as a member. Though i am happy with that but on the other hand this is a problem between Greece and Turkey. So i do not think EU is a counterpart in this issue.
And as the last word..This is both for Turks and Greeks. If we keep on seing ourselves correct all the time we cant solve a thing.
And as for the greek pilot who died in the incident i hope he rests in peace.
No that is not true.. As a turkish citizen i do not hate greeks but just the opposite i like Greeks...
but not good enough..
For example you call us bla bla bla because Turks are mostly muslims...
So should i call you all christians bla bla bla because of what Adolph Hitler did during the 2nd world war ?
Well i dont think so..
On the other hand for the iraqi invasion..Just be fair to yourself..Do you really think the USA is in Iraq to bring peace and democracy to Iraq ? Or are you there because of the oil reserves ?
Since May 24, 2006
well let me tell you like that..ý had many friends who completed their university educations in the USA. And there are many greeks who attend to the American universities.. All turks say the same , when abroad the best friends that they have are greeks always..
There may be some people who may be pissed off for sure..but as a turkish citizen i have been to greece 5 times.And i have seen that they are always nice to turkish people..of course i have never discusses the political issues there..if i did i am sure we would argue in a good way maybe...But i wouldnt be pissed off as long as there is no insult or so ;)
My friends were just traveling through and were not kids just out of college at all.
In the couple, the woman looks like a citizen of almost every country out there, so every place she goes, they all think she is a citizen. They said the (regular people) had lots of hostility between the two countries from their observation and as I said, there were negative words during border crossing towards my friends regarding buying in the other country.
They actually mentioned that as standing out from their trip to that area.
One country resented the other having occupied it once blah blah blah. You probably hear that before forever though.
that may be true before 2000..but after 2000 many thing changed.i tell you as a turkish citizen i have been to greece 5 times and when i was asked where i was from and replied as from turkey...the reaction that i get most of the time is... welcome neighbour ;)
and it is the same for the greeks when they visit turkey too
after 2000 of course
I hope relations are wonderful between your two great countries, I really do.
I don't see how such anger as my friends saw could subside for any reason in the last 5 years, but if it has, good for you guys. :)
Well if "solving" a problem with Turkey versus not solving it means a compromise with Turkey (on any level), then this American-Greek prefers that Greece doesn't solve anything with them. Not ever.
As is makes no difference to the Turks, or any other muslims, whether the "infidel" fights an honorable fight, compromises or submits to them.
The following is all your people understand.
...In July 1974, Turkey invaded Cyprus and has occupied the northern part of the island ever since.
...The brutal manner of Athanassios Diakos's death at hands of the Turks on 1 April 1821 (Being roasted on a spit) initially struck fear into the populace of Roumeli, but his final stand at Thermopylae, echoing the heroic defence of the Spartan King Leonidas, made him a martyr for the Greek cause.
...when the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453 they renamed it Istanbul. The Sultan Mehmed entered the city, went directly to Haghia Sophia Church, and ordered it to be converted into a mosque.
I wish it were different but turkey cost American soldiers lives.
Greek - vs - Turkey
Christian - vs - Muslim
Thank God they aren't both the same religion or there would be more and bloodier conflicts!
These 2 just cannot get along, after all, there are only so many sheep!
...In July 1974, Turkey invaded Cyprus and has occupied the northern part of the island ever since.
have you ever consider or ever thought about it ? Why the island has been occupied by Turkey ? If you ever think that the Greek Cypriots are only the victims my friend you are unfortunately totally wrong...If you deny the slaughter that has been against Turks you will totally be wrong again. But the problem lies here..In history books greeks read how brutal turks are , how merciless they are..Although relations get better and better this is what the people still keep in their minds...
.when the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453 they renamed it Istanbul. The Sultan Mehmed entered the city, went directly to Haghia Sophia Church, and ordered it to be converted into a mosque.
and as for that you are talking of 1453. Hagia Sophia is no longer a mosque and it is converted into a museum by Ataturk's order in mid 1930s. Besides you cant consider 1453 in todays minds.Why ? Because do you think christianity had great times during old ages..Have you forgotten the inqusitiaon ? And now should i say there was inqusition 1000 years ago so all the christians are so bad people..I guess you can see my point..doing so is ridiculous.
But my friend you can believe whatever you would like to believe..Greeks and Turks live side by side in this region and what i am defending is the best " we should learn to live together " If you want to object this it is your problem.On the other hand , just thinking that turks are or greeks are uncompromisable unfortuantely thats not a good point to start etiher.
and i can post things like that too...
The simplest definition of the Cyprus conflict is that there are two distinct communities living on the island, namely the Turkish and the Greek Cypriot communities with deep roots in history directly involving their respective motherlands, Turkey and Greece. The conflict emanates from the Greek and Greek-Cypriot aspirations and acts aiming at the annexation of the island to Greece after the annihilation of the Turkish-Cypriot community. The Turks are, naturally, determined to prevent such an annihilation and the annexation of the island to Greece.
In this context, the Cyprus problem is intimately connected with the so-called Greek "great idea" (megali idea) aiming at recreating the Byzantine Empire. As such, the Cyprus problem has its roots in the Greek rebellion in Morea against the Ottoman Government in 1821. In those days a certain Dimitrios Ipatros worked together with the Greek Orthodox Archbishop of Cyprus, Kiprianos, enrolling him as a member of the Greek rebel organization Haeteria Philiki, obtaining monetary and moral support for the rebellion.
While Turkey was confronted by the Greek rebellion, assistance was requested from the autonomy-seeking Governor of Egypt, Mohamed Ali of Kavala and Cyprus was left under his control to be retaken by the Sublime Port in 1840. Later, the Ottoman-Russian War of 1877-78 resulted in an Ottoman disaster and in the Berlin Congress of 1878 the administration of Cyprus was left to Great Britain to be used as a base on condition that Great Britain would cooperate with the Ottoman Empire if Russia attacked once again. The document relevant to the British occupation of the island was the Cyprus Convention of 1 July 1878 explicitly stating that the British presence was provisional because in an annex to the said Convention it was stipulated that if Russia restored to Turkey the Turkish provinces of Kars, Ardahan and the other Russian conquests in Eastern Anatolia made during the 1877-78 war, then Cyprus would also be evacuated by Britain and the Cyprus Convention would be terminated.
In the meantime, the Greek Orthodox Church of Cyprus connected itself to the new Greek nationalist-expansionist underground organization Etniki Haeteria espousing the championship of Enosis, or, in other words, annexation to Greece. Britain also never intended to return Cyprus to the Turks because of British strategic and other interests.
Within this framework, Greek Orthodox Bishop Kiprianos of Kitium received Sir Garnet Wolseley, the first British High Commissioner to Cyprus, on his arrival to the island in early July 1878 with the following plea: "We accept the change of government in as much as we trust that Great Britain will help Cyprus, as it did the Ionian (or, in other words, Aegean) islands to be united with mother Greece with which it is naturally connected". This plea of Kiprianos was sympathetically received and, for instance, the Liberal Party leader Gladstone (later Prime Minister) remarked in March 1897 in the following way: "I subjoin the satisfaction I should feel, were it granted to me before the close of my long life, to see the population of that Hellenic island placed by friendly arrangement in organic union with their brethren of the Kingdom of Greece and Crete.". Similarly Winston Churchill, visiting the island in 1907 stated: " I think it only natural that the Cypriot people who are of Greek descent should regard their incorporation with what may be called their motherland as an ideal to be earnestly, devoutly and fervently cherished.".
Encouraged by such statements, in 1898 a patriotic Cypriot league was founded in Athens with the object of effecting in Cyprus the same revolution as had taken place in Crete and aiming at instilling into the minds of the Greek youth of the island that their great object in life was to advance the cause of Enosis. Consequently the Turkish-Cypriots were subjected to an onslaught by the Greeks on every occasion - in 1882, in 1895, during the Turco-Greek War of 1897, the Cretan crisis of 1898, in 1902, 1907 and during the Balkan war of 1912.
When eventually the First World War started in 1914 and the Ottoman Empire joined the Axis together with the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Germany, the British unilaterally declared the 1878 Cyprus Convention null and void and annexed Cyprus. This announcement resulted in a further onslaught of the Turkish-Cypriot community by the Greek-Cypriots leading to wholesale emigration of the Turkish-Cypriots to Anatolia. Furthermore, Britain promulgated a Royal Decree on 27th of November 1917 requesting the islanders to opt for British citizenship within two years. When the Russians had to evacuate Kars, Ardahan, Batumi and other Turkish Eastern territories following the Bolshevik revolution, still abiding by the stipulations of the Cyprus Convention of 1878, Turkey requested the return of Cyprus as this was a provision that was mutually agreed upon. The British, however, overlooking their treaty obligations rejected this request.
In the meantime the members of the Turkish community in Cyprus who preferred to retain their Ottoman citizenship were treated as enemy aliens causing further Turkish emigration as they were suffering considerable economic and administrative discrimination.
At the end of the First World War, when the allies were attempting to impose on Turkey the Treaty of Sèvres, the British requested the Ottoman Empire the legal secession of Cyprus to British ownership. The Government of Ankara under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal, however, totally rejected the Treaty of Sèvres. After the success of the Kemalist Government, the discussions in Lausanne aiming at creating a delicate balance between Turkey and Greece, made the status of Cyprus an integral part of the eventual peace settlement in the Eastern Mediterranean and under the Treaty of Lausanne of 1923 Turkey and Greece agreed that Cyprus would be under British sovereignty. Nevertheless, the Greek Orthodox Church in Cyprus right away proceeded into an intensification of its campaign for the annexation of Cyprus to Greece (Enosis) already launched in 1878. The Turkish-Cypriot community, fearing colonization by Greece, firmly opposed this campaign and cooperated with the British, assisting them in the administration of the island. The British, on the other hand, tried to appease the Greek community and provided a prominent presence for the Greeks in the Government of the Island by declaring Cyprus a Crown colony in 1925 and creating an Executive Council as well as a Legislative Council with a pronounced Greek majority that would function under the nominal leadership of a British Governor.
In 1931 the Greek Cypriots encouraged by the Greek Orthodox Church and despite the lenience of the British Governor, nevertheless, resorted to violence and revolted against the British Government in the cause of Enosis. This rebellion was swiftly crushed by the British but, unfortunately, the emergency measures that followed the Greek Cypriot rebellion were of general application and resulted in the suppression of the Turkish Cypriot community rights as well. The economic development of the Turkish community was thus adversely affected and the development of the Turkish community in terms of its aspirations in the fields of commerce, language and culture were curtailed.
At the end of the Second World War the Greek Cypriot campaign for Enosis was intensified once again from 1945 onwards. The Greek Orthodox Church attempted to misuse the principle of self-determination that was universally accepted in the context of the United Nations, claiming that only the Greek Cypriot community had the right for self-determination and that the destiny of Cyprus, therefore, should be left in the hands of the Greek community. As there was no single Cyprus nation but two entirely different ethnic communities living in the island, the principle of self-determination, from a proper implementation of the international law point of view could not be applied to only the Greek Cypriot community. Indeed, international law, in the presence of two distinct and entirely different ethnic communities in the island could only be applied to and be exercised by each of these two communities individually and separately. Failure to do so would have meant the denial of the right of self-determination to the Turkish Cypriot community and would hence constitute a violation of international law.
In this context, the Turkish Cypriot community attempted to defend their legitimate right of survival by opposing the Greek Cypriot efforts for Enosis. This resulted in wholesale Greek Cypriot attacks on the Turkish Cypriot population. As the Turkish community, which was lesser in number than the Greek community, lived in a widely dispersed manner over the island, the extent of the Greek Cypriot pressure on the Turkish Cypriots was very great. Under such intimidation the Turkish Cypriots were unable to continue to live among the Greek Cypriots and they were being compelled to abandon mixed villages, taking refuge in nearby Turkish Cypriot villages while consequently being deprived of their lands and homes by force. This Turkish Cypriot exodus resulted in the general impoverishment of the Turkish Cypriot community.
In 1950 the Greek Orthodox Church in Cyprus staged a so-called attempt to ascertain the wishes of an imaginary "people of Cyprus" claiming that it was holding a "plebiscite". Naturally the Turkish Cypriot community refused to recognise this masquarade of a so-called plebiscite which was obviously devoid of any legal basis whatsoever. In accordance with the precepts of both constitutional and international law the Turkish Cypriots continued to request that the right of self-determination should be exercised not only by the Greek Cypriots but by the Turkish Cypriots as well, as two distinct ethnic communities existed in the island and the rule of law required separate and equal treatment of both.
In 1950 Makarios III became the Archbishop of Cyprus whereupon he took an oath in church that he would achieve Enosis before his death. In 1953 Makarios managed to secure the support of the Greek government and created a terrorist movement (later to be known as EOKA) and in 1954 a Greek officer named Grivas arrived in Cyprus to become the leader of the EOKA terrorist movement. The EOKA sowed terror all over the island with the objective of uniting Cyprus with Greece. On 1st April 1955 EOKA proclaimed that its sole ultimate objective was uniting Cyprus with Greece.
In the meantime, between 1954 and 1958, Greece made several attempts in the United Nations to achieve Enosis under the guise of self-determination which Greece claimed to be an exclusive right for only the Greek-Cypriots, while in the island EOKA terror continued not only against the British government but also, and, perhaps, much more violently the Turkish community whom the EOKA considered as the greatest obstacle on their way to Enosis. During this period the Turkish-Cypriot community was driven away from thirty-three mixed villages and the Turkish homes in these villages were immediately burnt down by the Greek Cypriots.
"Do you really think the USA is in Iraq to bring peace and democracy to Iraq ? Or are you there because of the oil reserves ? "
Yes, to bring peace and democracy to the middle east.
I have a feeling you may not be very popular around here
The embassy of the parastate Muslim Turks has lots of lies to spread around I see.
Yeah, I know all about that aliyavuz, but I want you to remember something.
I want you to remember that while I may be born and raised American, 8 years of Greek school as a boy and more than a dozen trips to Greece with my family have taught me to speak the language fluently and to know Greece's history almost inside-out.
It also taught me all that I needed (and more than I wanted) to know about the Turks and what they did to my people and their country for nearly 400 years.
Whatsmore, I will always "be" Greek, but I AM an American and I will die an American.
So from Turkey's uncooperativeness that cost American soldiers their lives, to her being oh-so kind and turning what was one of Greece's and Orthodoxy's most cherished and important churches into a museum after "only" almost 500 years of Turkey's having defamed it, I wish you lots of luck in trying to sell me on how Turks are "misunderstood" but truly swell folks once you get to know em' better.
Now as for the Cyprus "issue"?
There IS no issue for me. I just continue to be amazed at the arrogance of a culture and, yes, a people who insist on their also "belonging" somewhere they clearly do not and never have.
Be it the Turks themselves in Cyprus and on the patch of earth that lies west of the Bosphorus Strait and is unfortunately still recognized as "Turkey", to the Phillistines, aka Palestinians, to those Ottoman leftovers in Eastern European who fancy themselves "ethnic Albanians" and "Bosnian Muslims" and such.
They belong in those parts of the world about as much as I belong in Laos, kicking and screaming and blowing things up because they have not recognized that God has ordained it as only my rightful homeland.
Ok, ok. But give some credit will ya'?
I mean at least we Greeks don't Marry our livestock!
This isn't the first incident between the Greeks and Turks.
See the following link. The possibility arises that a Greek Mirage 2000 shot down a Turkish F-16 during 1996
I've sceen gun camera footage from this, but it was only a Turkish F-16 in the pipper. No guns or missiles were fired in the footage or screencaps.
mean at least we Greeks don't Marry our livestock!
Popularity is not my concern first of all. But i really do tell you what i believe. God Bless the USA and the World from the blind eyes of Rebuplicans. The USA has much things to learn from President Clinton !!!
By the way where are the mass destructions weapons that Mr Powell claimed ?
And to all of you please do not get me wrong.. I have been to the States 3 times and i have no problem with the USA or the American people. Do not forget that this is a discussion only and dont think that i am anti American or so !!!!!!!!