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Serbia's Navy Left High And Dry By The Vote For Independence
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 5-24-2006 | David Rennie

Posted on 05/23/2006 6:33:04 PM PDT by blam

Serbia's navy left high and dry by the vote for independence

By David Rennie, Europe Correspondent
(Filed: 24/05/2006)

Serbia is about to join the select club of former naval powers.

Officers, who remember the heyday of the old Yugoslav navy - it boasted nearly 80 warships - are weighing their options following Sunday's independence referendum in Serbia's sister republic of Montenegro.

The Yes vote means Serbia will lose its sea ports and naval bases.

Gen Radosav Martinovic, a military adviser to the government of Montenegro, said that the Serbian navy would be lucky to end up with some patrol craft on the Danube.

The general invited Serbia's most capable admirals and officers to stay on and help build a new Montenegrin fleet. The offer may not be that attractive, however, as the new-born nation is planning a coastguard-style force, based on fast patrol boats, plus a three-masted, 180-foot sail training ship, the Jadran.

The Montenegrin authorities have started auctioning off some of the most picturesque bases on the Adriatic to tourist developers.

Other nations, from Ethiopia to the Austro-Hungarian empire, have lost coastlines and waved goodbye to their navies. Bolivia, defying the trend, still maintains a "navy" of river boats and a clutch of admirals, despite losing its coastline to Chile in 1884.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allybetrayed; balkans; clintonistas; clintonlegacy; dancingfascists; dry; high; hoopielite; ihoppy; independence; left; mark502ss; navy; nazisarehappy; pancakeboy; sercias; sorosfluffers; vote; whoneedsteeth
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1 posted on 05/23/2006 6:33:09 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

In the eight year reign of terror of the KKKlinton regime, I only saw two groups of people stand up to the beast and try to face it down, that being the Mormons in Utah, and the Serbs.


2 posted on 05/23/2006 6:37:03 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: blam

Sell the ships to Poland

Or scuttle them

Just don't let them fall into the hands of the KLA terrorists.


3 posted on 05/23/2006 6:40:00 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: blam
Serbian Navy at work
4 posted on 05/23/2006 6:49:12 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: tomzz
I only saw two groups of people stand up to the beast and try to face it down, that being the Mormons in Utah, and the Serbs.

Interesting. You'll support foreign enemies against the United States, so long as the President isn't all that good? Conservatives don't need any Michael Moores / Benedict Arnolds on our side, thank you.

5 posted on 05/23/2006 7:07:13 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker
>Interesting. You'll support foreign enemies against the United States, so long as the President isn't all that good?

The last thing, and I mean the very last thing in this world that I ever want my tax dollars being used for, is to bomb some innocent Christian nation into the stone age for the benefit of slammite narco-terrorists, and white trash, and savages. That's what Kosovo was about.

6 posted on 05/23/2006 7:26:30 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: Alter Kaker; tomzz

Perhaps you need to do a little research on that conflict. Clinton was totally corrupt. Presidents are not the rulers in America.
The people are.
I disagree passionately with Bush on immigration.
I will not roll over just because Bush is president and that my friend makes me. . . .

an involved patriot not a traitor.


7 posted on 05/23/2006 7:32:03 PM PDT by jokar (for it is by grace, http://www.gbible.org)
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To: jokar
an involved patriot not[sic] a traitor.

But someone who supports America's enemies in a time of war is.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

8 posted on 05/23/2006 8:06:50 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: tomzz
The last thing, and I mean the very last thing in this world that I ever want my tax dollars being used for, is to bomb some innocent Christian nation into the stone age for the benefit of slammite narco-terrorists,

That's nice -- you're wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. What you're not entitled to do is to root for Yugoslav Communists in a war against the United States, because you don't like the policy. That's treason.

9 posted on 05/23/2006 8:08:09 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker; All
Its even more interesting how you, with an Israeli flag on your home page, call a traitor a man who called out the previous president for engaging in an immoral, illegal war on the side of al Quaeda-trained Albanian Muslim terrorists and drug-running pimps, against a nation (the Serbs) whose suffering in WWII is only behind the suffering of European Jewry, the Russians and the Poles, and which has fought against both Muslim and Fascist terror (in the Moslem case, for literally hundreds of years)...

so, that either makes you a man of extremely poor historical judgment, or...perhaps(?) a "self-hater"???

Before you start up on Slobo, he was the Supreme Serbian traitor of all time, may he burn in Hell. But does NOT mean that the 'Toon was any better - he wasn't - he IS the Supreme American traitor of all time....and his war on Serbia was wrong-headed (attacking a natural ally in favor of a natural enemy), and ILLEGAL (violated the UN Charter by being an offensive war, violated the NATO Treaty as Serbia did not attack or threaten any NATO members, and violated the U.S. Constitution, which has, by treaties, incorporated those provisions.....)

10 posted on 05/23/2006 8:09:50 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Al Simmons
Its even more interesting how you, with an Israeli flag on your home page, call a traitor a man who called out the previous president for engaging in an immoral, illegal war on the side of al Quaeda-trained Albanian Muslim terrorists and drug-running pimps

Wow, you change a few names there and you could be Cindy Sheehan. What's remarkable, and actually kind of sad, is that I, a foreigner, appreciate your country more than you do.

A person who supports his countries' enemies during war time is a traitor, nothing more and nothing less. One would hope that if ever American conservatives would understand that, it would be now.

11 posted on 05/23/2006 8:13:26 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: nkycincinnatikid; FormerLib; kosta50

Imagine ALL those fires were burning tires and YOU would be right! I know Croatian woman and she told me the fires were burning tires to rive up world opinion against the Serbs so the Croatian utaschis could ETHNICALLY CLEANSE OVER 500,000 SERBS FROM KRAJINA AND GET AWAY WITH IT!!


12 posted on 05/23/2006 8:14:16 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Alter Kaker
"That's nice -- you're wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. What you're not entitled to do is to root for Yugoslav Communists in a war against the United States, because you don't like the policy. That's treason."

OK. Let's see how internally consistent you are.

When (God-forbid!) President Hitlery Clinton starts bombing Israel because they are "oppressing" the Phillistines, you will duly take down the Israeli Flag from your home page and fall in line, correct? Right?? Or is your verbiage one of convenience rather than principle?

P.S. I am a naturalized American, and you won't see me flying any flag on my Home Page other than the Stars and Stripes, in whose unifomr I served honorably (including in Bosnia for a year)....

13 posted on 05/23/2006 8:15:33 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Al Simmons

Bravo ! Well said!!


14 posted on 05/23/2006 8:16:31 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Alter Kaker

Oh. I see. You are not an American, are you? OK. STHUP. Stick to 'domestic policy' and leave American policy to AMERICANS.


15 posted on 05/23/2006 8:17:58 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Al Simmons
When (God-forbid!) President Hitlery Clinton starts bombing Israel because they are "oppressing" the Phillistines, you will duly take down the Israeli Flag from your home page and fall in line, correct?

I'm an Israeli, not an American. I would support my country as I always do.

Or is your verbiage one of convenience rather than principle?

No, it isn't.

16 posted on 05/23/2006 8:19:08 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Al Simmons
Oh. I see. You are not an American, are you? OK. STHUP. Stick to 'domestic policy' and leave American policy to AMERICANS.

This isn't a thread about American domestic policy, it's a thread about Serbia's navy.

17 posted on 05/23/2006 8:20:02 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker
"Wow, you change a few names there and you could be Cindy Sheehan. What's remarkable, and actually kind of sad, is that I, a foreigner, appreciate your country more than you do."

No, you self-hating maroon, its NOT the same.

There are concepts called RIGHT and WRONG.

Using your logic the bombings of Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima were morally equivalent.

What kind of Israeli are you? One of those who would tear down the wall and hope to convert the Palis with kisses and your goodwill??

May eretz Israel raise up 1000 Arik Sharons for every one of your ilk!!!!!!!

18 posted on 05/23/2006 8:21:07 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Alter Kaker; Al Simmons
AK... WHAT WAR! Serbia never attacked the USA it was the NATO who attacked a country over LIES and FABRICATIONS told by the clintoon administration to support albanian islamic clans set to KILL CHRISTIANS WHENEVER POSSIBLE !! CLINTON SERVES THE DEVIL HIMSELF and he is proud of it!!

IN MY BOOK ANY FOOL WHO BACKS ANYTHING CLINTON DID IS A TRAITOR!! And, that would be guess who... buddy??? You approve clinton's actions don't ya??

By the way, I actually killed some commies in Korea many many years ago.... so pup... I have paid my dues to the USA.... and so did my kid in NAM andmy brothers in WWII!

Traitors... oh yeah! YOU are an expert allright!

19 posted on 05/23/2006 8:25:35 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Al Simmons
No, you self-hating maroon, its NOT the same.

How in the hell am I self-hating? What are you talking about?

Using your logic the bombings of Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima were morally equivalent.

Excuse me?

One of those who would tear down the wall and hope to convert the Palis with kisses and your goodwill??

Now you're just being silly. Where did the Japanese and Arabs come into a discussion of US/Serbian relations?

20 posted on 05/23/2006 8:25:41 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker
Oh. I see. You're my L.A. cousin Erik's evil twin.

Logical analysis is as alien to your mental proceses as it is to his.

Nevermind.

21 posted on 05/23/2006 8:28:17 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Lion in Winter
Serbia never attacked the USA it was the NATO who attacked a country over LIES and FABRICATIONS told by the clintoon

Replace "Serbia" with "Iraq" and you're a regular Michael Moore. You're either pro-America or anti-America. And you seem dangerously close to the latter.

IN MY BOOK ANY FOOL WHO BACKS ANYTHING CLINTON DID IS A TRAITOR!! And, that would be guess who... buddy??? You approve clinton's actions don't ya??

You've gone off the deep end on so many levels. Where did I ever say I was a supporter of Clinton's? And who, exactly, am I supposed to be betraying?

In any event, supporting an enemy of the United States' simply becase the American President is bad is utterly dishonorable.

By the way, I actually killed some commies in Korea many many years ago..

That's laudatory. But service to your country doesn't give you -- or Mr. Kerry -- a free pass to turn against it.

22 posted on 05/23/2006 8:33:24 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Al Simmons
Oh. I see. You're my L.A. cousin Erik's evil twin.

And you're Cindy Sheehan in drag.

23 posted on 05/23/2006 8:35:20 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Al Simmons

While I agree that we had no business bombing Yugoslavia, I really don't think that you are making a whole lot of sense. :)


24 posted on 05/23/2006 8:38:16 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: Alter Kaker

Buddy , you got some gall comparing me to that joke kerry. I actually think you are an IDIOT!


25 posted on 05/23/2006 8:52:43 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Constantine XIII

See my previous comment to the fake Israeli above, "Erik#3"...


26 posted on 05/23/2006 8:53:06 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Hillary Clinton is Stalin in a Dress)
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To: Lion in Winter
Buddy , you got some gall comparing me to that joke kerry. I actually think you are an IDIOT!

You say that exactly one post after comparing me to Bill Clinton? Why am I wasting my time with you people?

27 posted on 05/23/2006 8:56:08 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker

You have to ignore him. He's not too intelligent, especially when it comes to Balkan affairs.


28 posted on 05/23/2006 9:02:11 PM PDT by Sarajevo
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To: Alter Kaker
You support the FAILED FOREIGN policy of the clintons and you support the evil clinton plan to bomb civilians in Serbia... you support an evil plan that killed 73 Serbian children and hit few, if any miltary targets.... just to help islamic land-grabbers.

And you sit there and expect us to think you are A CONSERVATIVE!! What are you on???

Move on, US PEOPLE here don't need any faux conservative CLINTON supporters!!

29 posted on 05/23/2006 9:03:18 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Sarajevo
I have to ignore YOU because YOU are not an American and are NOT a conservative in any way shape or form!

Get lost, mussie apologist.

30 posted on 05/23/2006 9:04:50 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: blam; Hoplite
Serbia is about to join the select club of former naval powers.

Oh the horror of it all, the absolute horror!

Memo to Serbia: you can't afford a navy. You are an economic basket case. Think of the upside.

31 posted on 05/23/2006 9:07:33 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Lion in Winter
Get lost yourself. You have no flaming idea of what you are talking about. You never were in the Balkans, and have no idea of what happened there, except from a googled website. I find keyboard commandoes such as yourself detestable.
32 posted on 05/23/2006 9:08:33 PM PDT by Sarajevo
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To: Lion in Winter
Is it conservative to support blowing up the Cole because we don't like the President whom those sailors serve? Is it conservative to hail Mohammed Farrah Aidid as a hero for fighting Clinton's foreign policy?

You're really too sad, because in the interests of short-sighted political expediency, you've quite forgotten what it is to love your country. I hope I never feel that way about my country.

I served for over 30 years in the Israeli Defence Forces. I served good governments and I served bad governments, and I was ordered to carry out policies I agreed with and I was ordered to carry out policies I disagreed with, but I never forgot who I was or what side I was on. Somehow you've fallen astray.

And you sit there and expect us to think you are A CONSERVATIVE!!

I am as conservative as they come. But I put my God and my country before the rest.

33 posted on 05/23/2006 9:14:51 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Sarajevo

Muzzie apologist? Call me a UTACHI the other night. For a guy that thinks ever Croatian should be shot on sight, Croatian woman burning tires to dupe the world is good enough for him. I got 10 yrs you have 23. You ever hear a combat vet bragging about killing? And not just tonight's post.


34 posted on 05/23/2006 9:18:16 PM PDT by 359Henrie
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To: Alter Kaker
That's nice -- you're wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. What you're not entitled to do is to root for Yugoslav Communists in a war against the United States, because you don't like the policy. That's treason.

I agree there's treason in the picture, but that's about the only thing we're likely to agree on here...

35 posted on 05/23/2006 9:19:17 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: Sarajevo
You have to ignore him. He's not too intelligent, especially when it comes to Balkan affairs.

I think I'm noticing that. Thanks for the support.

36 posted on 05/23/2006 9:22:22 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: 359Henrie

When it comes to killin commies, I think it was a highlight of my career... sounds like you feel sorry for the RED Chinese butchers!


37 posted on 05/23/2006 9:25:00 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Sarajevo

Well , well.. bosnian mussies give bin laden passport and you love 'em... FIGURES!!


38 posted on 05/23/2006 9:26:36 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Lion in Winter
When it comes to killin commies, I think it was a highlight of my career... sounds like you feel sorry for the RED Chinese butchers!

The irony of you accusing people of harboring Communist sympathies all the while supporting Communist Party boss Slobodan Milosevic is vaguely amusing.

39 posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:01 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Lion in Winter

I'm starting to feel sorry for you. The highlight of my career was a small part in that Berlin wall coming down.


40 posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:09 PM PDT by 359Henrie
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To: Alter Kaker

You need support all right... lost your strap did ya?


41 posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:24 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Alter Kaker

Yeah, right sure you did. When pigs flew!


42 posted on 05/23/2006 9:28:10 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Alter Kaker

Why do you consider the NATO bombings of Serbia to be the moral equilivant of the US attack on Iraq. It seems to me that there are several differences.

1. Iraq was thought to be hiding weapons of mass destruction. I don't reacall Serbia having the same issues.

2. Iraq was training terrorists that had killed 3,000 Americans. I don't recall Serbia having done this.

I am not saying that the US/NATO didn't have sufficient reasons for doing what it did in Serbia, I just think that the case is less compelling and the same arguments cannot be made between the two conflicts.


43 posted on 05/23/2006 9:30:19 PM PDT by davidwendell
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To: Lion in Winter
I think it was a highlight of my career...

I asked you about this once, and why you didn't know a lick of Hangul after having served in Korea "killing commies on the DMZ".

It just seems odd, in a DITHF kind of way.

44 posted on 05/23/2006 9:31:19 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Alter Kaker; Sarajevo

Is it me or is this guy Walter Mittie


45 posted on 05/23/2006 9:34:38 PM PDT by 359Henrie
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To: davidwendell
Why do you consider the NATO bombings of Serbia to be the moral equilivant of the US attack on Iraq.

I agree with you that they're not equivalent, and please don't think that I'm opposing the Iraq War.

But I do think that regardless of what you think of a specific government policy, you are obligated to support your country against its enemies in time of war -- with the sole exception of a few most extreme circumstances. There are exceptions to that, such as Stalin, such as Hitler, but they are rare exceptions. We may not care for Bill Clinton or his policies, but he was no Hitler.

46 posted on 05/23/2006 9:36:47 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Torie
C'mon Torie - if they get rid of the Navy, they'll only have the Cowboy, the Cop, the Construction Worker, the Indian, and the, um, Leather Dude.

LOL.

Oh but seriously, how the (regionally) mighty have fallen, and how completely unnecessary it all was, and continues to be.

47 posted on 05/23/2006 9:37:24 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Lion in Winter
Yeah, right sure you did. When pigs flew!

Why is it exactly that you feel the pressing need to call my service into question?

48 posted on 05/23/2006 9:38:26 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Hoplite
I also cannot remember my high school French or Spanish... but one thing hoppie.pancake-cook... I do remember guys like you who supported OUR enemies and YOU remind me of them !!

Now, go find some other DESTRO to chase... and by the way, MY FISHING trip with some lucky freepers went just great!!

Did find your "long lost love" destro yet???

49 posted on 05/23/2006 9:39:36 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: Alter Kaker

Because I DO NOT LIKE YOU.. clintinoid.


50 posted on 05/23/2006 9:41:18 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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