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Are We Losing Nuclear Expertise?
Air Force Magazine ^ | May, 2006 | John A. Tirpak

Posted on 05/25/2006 1:38:39 PM PDT by Paul Ross



May 2006 Vol. 89, No. 5       print-friendly pdf

By John A. Tirpak, Executive Editor

Are We Losing Nuke Expertise?; Modernizing the Arsenal; Iran, North Korea, and Friends ....
 

Strategic Strike: Fund It or Lose It
Unless steps are taken to create new programs and attract new expertise, US strategic missile capabilities will soon become extinct, warns a Defense Science Board task force.

In a March report titled “Future Strategic Strike Skills,” the DSB task force said the Defense Department has failed to make long-term plans for strategic systems or adequately fund their modernization. This neglect, the DSB said, has already rendered the industry and government talent base in these endeavors “marginally thin.”

So grave is the situation, said the task force, that today’s generation of rocket engineers “may not be able to cope with unanticipated failures” in the inventory of strategic missiles if the fixes require “testing and redesign.”

Aggravating the problem is the fact that a large percentage of industry experts are retiring or are expected to do so in the near future. Without new missile programs on the books, industry will have no reason to recruit replacements.

Funding is simply “not sufficient to maintain skills,” and there might not be enough qualified engineers “available for potential next generation systems,” according to the report.

Silo-based Minuteman ICBM at Malmstrom AFB, Mont. (USAF photo by Amn. John Parie)

Attracting what the DSB called a “new talent base” already will be tough. Even now, defense companies are struggling to compete with faster growing and more lucrative telecom, computer, and nanotechnology industries. Working on strategic weapons no longer has the cachet it had in the post-Sputnik days. Moreover, few—if anyone—now in the business have had experience actually working on the design of a new ICBM. The last such missile, the Peacekeeper, was designed in the 1970s.

The task force study was chaired by Walter E. Morrow Jr., director of MIT’s Lincoln Laboratories from 1977 to 1998. The study was launched in 2004 by Michael W. Wynne, then the acting undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology, and logistics and now the Secretary of the Air Force.

“Experienced personnel are nearing retirement with few replacements. This situation could lead to the potential loss of critical strategic strike systems knowledge,” the group asserted.

The task force argued that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld should give “direction” on what the next generation of strategic strike systems will be and how the government and industry should work to provide it.

The group also wants Rumsfeld to create a special office within the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. It would be “charged with defining and funding the exploratory development of future strategic strike concepts, to include the application of new technologies.” This office would report annually.

Because critical design skills are “rapidly disappearing,” the task force wants a concerted effort to make young engineers, early in their careers, knowledgeable about the area of ballistic missiles. The group wants Rumsfeld to direct the Navy and Air Force to fund advance development projects that would support design of new ballistic missiles, even if there’s no formal program to develop and produce a next generation missile. Such initiatives have “not been fully funded” for 15 years.

To address the problem of attracting new talent, the DSB wants strategic strike offices to fund internships and co-op programs that include mandatory work with either the Defense Department or industry, encourage graduate studies, and make full use of the National Defense Education Act, which provides assistance to colleges to fund scholarships and research into areas of interest to the defense industrial base.

Finally, the task force suggested new programs to create and maintain a base of relevant skills in all the affected agencies.

The task force noted that, overall, the US is experiencing a decline in engineers, with a 10 percent reduction since 2001. There also has been a drop in bachelor’s degrees awarded in engineering at US universities since 1990. About 70,000 engineers and scientists graduate every year in the US, compared with about 200,000 each in India and China.

Graduations in engineering master’s and doctoral programs have increased since 1990, but “the percent of US citizens graduating with advanced degrees has significantly declined since 1994,” the DSB said. Only citizens can work on secret US defense programs.

Making things even harder is the long time needed to obtain a security clearance, which for the most compartmentalized and secret programs now takes from one to two years. As a result, prospective experts who might work on strategic systems tire of waiting and accept jobs in other fields.


... And On Cue, Nuclear Update Plans
Even as the Defense Science Board was warning about the withering away of the nation’s strategic strike expertise, the Bush Administration announced plans to modernize the nuclear arsenal.

Linton F. Brooks, administrator of the National Nuclear Security Administration, told a House Armed Services subcommittee on strategic forces March 1 that “we will ... adapt an existing weapon within 18 months, and design, develop, and begin production of a new design within three to four years of a decision to enter engineering development.”

A full plan for modernizing the nuclear force by 2030 was to be delivered to Congress this spring, Brooks told the House panel. He acknowledged, however, that it could “take a couple of decades” to build the infrastructure required for sustained capability in nuclear weapons.

Modernization will depend on the Reliable Replacement Warhead, Brooks said. The RRW program will design new components for previously tested nuclear weapons to “reduce the chance [of] resuming nuclear testing,” which is dangerous and expensive. If the capability can be developed to build new nukes “on a time scale in which geopolitical threats could emerge,” the US would not have to retain large numbers of old warheads as a hedge against the rise of a peer nuclear competitor, he said.

The number of warheads in the US arsenal also will be reduced to between 1,700 and 2,200 by 2012, Brooks noted.

Brooks promises a new plan is forthcoming. (AP photo by Scott Fraker)

Defense officials have previously stated that the US seeks to maintain about 2,000 warheads in a strategic reserve, not mounted on any operational aircraft or missiles. If the RRW program pans out, this strategic reserve could be reduced.

Brooks also wants funds to build a facility that can produce “pits,” or plutonium triggers for thermonuclear weapons.

A facility has already been built at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in Los Alamos, N.M., but its capacity to build 30 to 40 pits a year by 2012 is insufficient to meet RRW needs. The defense consensus, he said, is that such triggers have a usable lifetime of 45 to 60 years, but recent tests and simulation have thrown that assumption into doubt.


Iran, North Korea Top New Threats List
Iran poses the greatest near-term security threat to the United States, followed by North Korea, according to the latest version of the “National Security Strategy of the United States of America.”

New names have been added to the list of nations hostile to the interests of the US, but China is not among them.

The new 49-page strategy document, which by law is supposed to be updated annually but hadn’t been revised since 2002, appeared in mid-March and carries the signature of President George W. Bush.

“We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran,” Bush said, noting Iran’s 20-year effort to obtain nuclear weapons while insisting it is doing no such thing.

The regime’s “true intentions” have been revealed by its unwillingness “to negotiate in good faith” about nuclear arms or to comply with international demands to open its nuclear activities for inspection, and its leader’s threat to wipe Israel “off the face of the earth.” Iran must yield to diplomatic efforts to curtail its nuclear weapons program “if confrontation is to be avoided,” Bush said.

Referring to Iran, Bush said, “We will continue to take all necessary measures to protect our national and economic security against the adverse effects of ... bad conduct.” Besides developing illicit nukes, Iran sponsors terrorism, tries to thwart peace in the Middle East, “disrupts democracy in Iraq,” and denies “the aspirations of its people.”

America’s strategy will be to “block” Iran’s threats “while expanding our engagement and outreach to the people the regime is oppressing.”

The document expressed a tacit acceptance of North Korea’s claims to possessing nuclear weapons, and Bush said the regime in Pyongyang “poses a serious nuclear proliferation challenge,” but he did not specify any steps to remove North Korea’s nuclear capability. Rather, he noted that in six-party talks last fall, North Korea “agreed to abandon its nuclear weapons and all existing nuclear programs.” Regional cooperation, he said, offers “the best hope” for a peaceful resolution to the situation.

Bush also cited North Korea as guilty of counterfeiting American currency, trafficking in narcotics, and threatening the security of South Korea. He said it is a nation that “brutalizes and starves its people.” The US will take steps to protect itself from Pyongyang’s “bad conduct,” but Bush did not lay out a more aggressive course of action.

Besides Iran and North Korea, Bush named Belarus, Burma, Cuba, Syria, and Zimbabwe as “tyrannies,” some of which—he did not specify which ones—are pursuing weapons of mass destruction or sponsoring terrorism and, in so doing, “threaten our immediate security interests.” These nations threaten their neighbors either directly or by causing instability and provide a breeding ground for ideologies of hatred and a base for terrorists.

While not elevating these other nations to the status of the “axis of evil,” as he had previously labeled Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, Bush said the nations of the world must “summon their collective action against the dangers tyrants pose” to world security. The nation will commit itself to take any measures necessary to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, Bush said.


The US and the World’s Big Powers
The strategy takes note of China’s expressed desire to “walk the transformative path of peaceful development.” Bush called on that nation to be a “responsible stakeholder” that “fulfills its obligations and works with the United States and others to advance the international system that has enabled [China’s] success.”

If it does so, the US will “welcome the emergence of a China that is peaceful and prosperous and that cooperates with us to address common challenges and mutual interests.”

However, Bush scolded the Chinese on a number of counts, admonishing them that they can’t expect to reap the economic rewards of capitalism without granting its people personal liberties.

He also said China worries the rest of the world by holding onto “old ways of thinking and acting.” These include continuing the expansion of its military capabilities “in a nontransparent way,” meaning that China does not publish a complete account of its military spending and is expanding its military more than self-defense would suggest is necessary.

North Korea is always on the list. (AP photo)

Bush also chided China for “expanding trade, but acting as [if the country] can somehow ‘lock up’ energy supplies around the world or seek to direct markets rather than opening them up,” a form of “mercantilism borrowed from a discredited era.”

China also supports “resource-rich countries” that have poor records on domestic human rights or peaceful international relations—an apparent dig at China’s warm economic and political relations with Iran.

Bush also insisted that China resolve its differences with Taiwan “peacefully, without coercion and without unilateral action” by either party.

“Our strategy,” Bush concluded, “seeks to encourage China to make the right strategic choices for its people, while we hedge against other possibilities.”

Russia has “great influence” in Europe and the nations that surround it, Bush said, and the US wants a stronger relationship with its former Cold War enemy. However, he noted a backsliding there away from democracy, saying that these adverse moves hinder Russia’s relationships with other countries worldwide.

“Recent trends regrettably point toward a diminishing commitment to democratic freedoms and institutions” in Russia, Bush said, no doubt referring to moves by Russian President Vladimir Putin to consolidate regional leadership under his own authority, among other power grabs, such as taking increasing control of national media.

“We will work to try to persuade the Russian government to move forward, not backward, along freedom’s path,” Bush said, though he did not imply any consequences if Russia doesn’t clean up its act, other than the displeasure of the US and other Western governments.

“Efforts to prevent democratic development at home and abroad will hamper the development of Russia’s relations with the United States, Europe, and its neighbors,” he said.

Bush congratulated his Administration for its delicate balancing act in maintaining relationships with both India and Pakistan.

“For decades,” he said, “outsiders acted as if good relations with India and Pakistan were mutually exclusive.” His Administration has shown that “improved relations with each are possible and can help India and Pakistan make strides toward a lasting peace between themselves.” He noted, though, that the US relationship with Pakistan “will not be a mirror image” of US dealings with India. India is the world’s largest democracy, and the US has recently agreed to overlook India’s development of nuclear weapons, while Pakistan, also a nuclear-armed nation, remains a dictatorship.


The Strategy’s Ways and Means
The strategy also reasserts Bush’s belief—first stated in the 2002 edition of the document—that the US has a right to take preemptive action to thwart an attack or if its vital security interests are threatened.

The US will protect itself with a “new triad” of “offensive strike systems (both nuclear and improved conventional capabilities); active and passive defenses, including missile defenses; and a responsive infrastructure,” Bush said. Such an approach will offer more meaningful deterrence as well as add realistic defensive measures, he added.

Bush restated his goal of promoting democracy—both in terms of personal rights and liberties as well as economically—as the best weapon against terrorism and rogue nations.

Bush also outlined a four-step strategy to combat terrorism.

He pledged that the US will unceasingly track down and kill terrorists, who he said “cannot be deterred or reformed.” The network of terrorism, he said, must be “disrupted and disabled by using a broad range of tools.”

Chinese airpower keeps growing. (AP/Xinhua photo by Li Gang)

Secondly, the US will deny weapons of mass destruction “to rogue states and to terrorist allies who would use them without hesitation.” He pledged closer cooperation with other countries on this aspect, softening the “go it alone if necessary” tone of the 2002 strategy document.

The US will deny terrorists “the support and sanctuary of rogue states,” Bush said, asserting again that the US makes no distinction between terrorists and those who support or harbor them. Nations such as Syria or Iran, which choose “to be an ally of terror,” will be held to account, Bush maintained.

Fourth, the US will “deny the terrorists control of any nation they would use as a base and launching pad for terror.” The US, he added, “must prevent terrorists from exploiting ungoverned areas.”



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arsenal; china; chinesemilitry; deterioration; disarmament; force; industry; infrastructure; nationalsecurity; nuclear; production; strategic; usaf

1 posted on 05/25/2006 1:38:44 PM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Paul Ross

2 posted on 05/25/2006 1:43:52 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport (As the Democrat Party becomes more evil, the GOP becomes more stupid. What's a voter to do?)
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To: Kenny Bunkport
New names have been added to the list of nations hostile to the interests of the US, but China is not among them.

Huh?
3 posted on 05/25/2006 1:59:58 PM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU HAVE NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT. Actually, you lack even a legitimate excuse.)
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To: Paul Ross
there might not be enough qualified engineers “available for potential next generation systems,”

No problem, just bring in some more H1-Bs to "do the jobs that Americans won't do".

4 posted on 05/25/2006 2:06:56 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: snowrip

I don't think China is a "new" name to add to the list, as it has been on the list for decades.


5 posted on 05/25/2006 2:10:41 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Paul Ross
we should get rid of all those liberals & environ weenies that has been constantly weakening America's potential in nuclear & military matters.

Start with ALL the leftists in the Senate and work your way down, then the MSM, next the Lefist/commie groups. etc

6 posted on 05/25/2006 2:22:09 PM PDT by prophetic
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To: Paul Ross
I left this line of work in 1993 as the funding dried up. My colleagues also found alternative work. We keep in touch and maintain our clearances. We could reconstitute the expertise in fairly short order. What we can't do is stop the passage of time. We're getting older and there are no younger people coming into the program to learn the ropes.

To comprehend the magnitude of the problem, the software is 1 million lines of C and 1 million lines of FORTRAN. Most of it has been coded and tested by people with a PhD in nuclear physics and 20+ years of hands-on experience testing real nukes in the desert areas of Nevada. Some parties also did evaluations of Hiroshima. This isn't the kind of work that a newbie with no experience is going to do. It's going to take bright people with the right degrees and a few years of working with the old hands to reach any reasonable level of proficiency.

7 posted on 05/25/2006 2:41:21 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Paul Ross
Why don't we just outsource our nuke program to the Chinese?

Oh, wait, I keep forgetting that Bill Clinton already did that in exchange for cold, hard campaign cash.

8 posted on 05/25/2006 2:50:01 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: Myrddin; Physicist; GOP_1900AD; Jeff Head; Travis McGee
This isn't the kind of work that a newbie with no experience is going to do. It's going to take bright people with the right degrees and a few years of working with the old hands to reach any reasonable level of proficiency.

Precisely. It's not amenable to quick-fixes. Solving this will take a high degree of seriousness at the policy-level (both White House and Congressional), giving both DOD and DOE a real mission and real resources to keep these abilities from atrophying into non-existence.

Otherwise, we will have an inevitable result: Unilateral disarmament by neglect.

9 posted on 05/25/2006 2:59:51 PM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Paul Ross
"“Experienced personnel are nearing retirement with few replacements. This situation could lead to the potential loss of critical strategic strike systems knowledge,” the group asserted."

I got news for you Jack; the good people left so as not to have the door hit them in the ass a decade and a half ago!

"Are We Losing Nuclear Expertise?"

Where have these guys been; take it from an old Nuke, when you don't pay people and do everything to make them leave, guess what - they leave, AND DON"T GO BACK!

Hope these guys don't have to buy this crap from the Chinese because people like me really don't care anymore about their problems! Then again if you want to pay seven figures like you pay your worthless movie stars, I might see my way to help you a little bit - but that would be only a little bit!

Oh yea, the new guys, well lets just say they are not as knowledgeable as the old guys - keep your fingers crossed when you go to use this crap!
10 posted on 05/25/2006 3:34:30 PM PDT by Herakles (Liberals are stone stupid and proud of it!)
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To: The Duke

Bang that nail right on the head.


11 posted on 05/25/2006 3:36:38 PM PDT by PeterFinn (Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for.)
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To: Kenny Bunkport; Herakles; Myrddin; Physicist; Alamo-Girl; doug from upland; kattracks; ...

Somehow I don't think the Chinese PLA has a "Ministry of Silly Walks".

What is likely very sad is that while our nuclear capabilities expire...the PLA may have a very capable complement of nuclear physicists and technicians assembled. Ready to swiftly move to deploy far more deliverable nuclear devices than the FAS [Federation of American Scientists] or BAT [Bulletin of Atomic Scientists] or UCS [Union of Concerned Scientists] folks believe they could do.

And they are simply patiently waiting us out to see our nuclear armaments capability implode.

It doesn't help that they likely have a leg up, avoiding all the blind alleys of R&D that we spent over $50 billion of research working around. Their espionage here has been ridiculously successful at the U.S. National Labs.

The copied W-88 is one example. And they already have, apparently, shown the capacity to do neutron warheads which they even admitted to in 2002.

Some purported satellite photos of one of their airburst tests of a 1Kt device is depicted below:

I fear that we will know about the error of our ways with China only when it is indeed too late.

12 posted on 05/25/2006 5:13:00 PM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: All
IIRC, women are either a majority, or nearly a majority of new college students. http://wie.engineering.ucdavis.edu/pages/articles/articles_men_women_eng.html Some over sampling of minority components, such as women engineers, was conducted to ensure that data accumulated was sufficient to provide statistically valid results. I bet much of what is going in the US is due to extreme feminism. This leads to problems such as expressed in this article. Men & women are different...
13 posted on 05/25/2006 5:15:49 PM PDT by PghBaldy (If my ancestors acted like the current crop of "immigrants", you would have to "press 2" for Polish.)
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To: Paul Ross
The last such missile, the Peacekeeper, was designed in the 1970s.

and that ended up being a watered down version of the MX placed in silos. Russia has mobile ICBM's, why can't we?

14 posted on 05/25/2006 5:27:59 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup (Retreat Hell, We just got here!)
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To: Paul Ross

Redirect all non military NASA funding into reseeding our domestic armaments and platforms industries. Give a tax holiday to them all. Immediately stop all non military work at national labs. Conduct supply chain reviews of all military hardware down to the subcomponent level and for all supply chains originating in hostile or unreliable countries, begin a break neck program to replace them with ones from the US and true allied countries. Make a black and white list of which countries are our true friends and all others, and trade only with the true friends. Etc. War preparations must commence immediately for the inevitable (and, actually, winnable) Third World War.


15 posted on 05/25/2006 6:53:16 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Paul Ross

They will turn them out like sausages. In fact, maybe they already are turning them out.


16 posted on 05/25/2006 6:55:13 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Paul Ross
I recall seeing those two final pictures circulating around my floor. The satellite photo analysis people brought them down for for friendly advice.

I was working in the bunker at SHAPE when the Chinese did the 1 MT underground test. The guys playing darts in the back of the room suddenly took a real keen interest in some other tasks. It dawned on me that I was working inside a high value, highly fortified target.

17 posted on 05/25/2006 7:32:44 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Herakles
Sounds like you had a similar experience when Clinton arrived and budgets took a severe cut. I figured out how to make my team lean and survivable with the limited money. The rest of us peddled our skills elsewhere. The problem is that we have all been extremely successful in peddling our services. It would take a fairly serious threat to break us away from our new lines of business.
18 posted on 05/25/2006 7:42:05 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
It's going to take bright people with the right degrees and a few years of working with the old hands to reach any reasonable level of proficiency.

What if the "old hands" are not around anymore?

19 posted on 05/25/2006 8:07:21 PM PDT by A. Pole (For today's Democrats abortion and "gay marriage" are more important that the whole New Deal legacy.)
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To: Myrddin
I left this line of work in 1993 as the funding dried up. My colleagues also found alternative work. We keep in touch and maintain our clearances. We could reconstitute the expertise in fairly short order. What we can't do is stop the passage of time. We're getting older and there are no younger people coming into the program to learn the ropes.

Our pols are so short sighted. What can be done to transfer the information so when the time comes, it will be there?

20 posted on 05/25/2006 8:24:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (Real trolls are brief, insulting, and at the top of threads.)
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To: Myrddin

I would say (from experience) that the Current Administration is doing its best to run off scientists from this type of research. The Previous Administration tried but they were less competent. The political wranglings around nuclear weapons work makes is less stressful to be a lumberjack (as well as better paying.) Things have deteriorated monotonically at least since 1980 (and probably before.)


21 posted on 05/25/2006 8:30:50 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Herakles
"Where have these guys been; take it from an old Nuke, when you don't pay people and do everything to make them leave, guess what - they leave, AND DON"T GO BACK!

I suspect that they also tell their kids (and friends kids) to NOT GO THERE as well -> become a trial lawyer. I guess when the time comes, we can use all our trial lawyers as kinetic energy weapons by dropping them from high altitude on targets. We certainly have a huge stockpile.
22 posted on 05/25/2006 9:15:44 PM PDT by indthkr
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To: A. Pole
What if the "old hands" are not around anymore?

People who understand fundamental principles are prepared to learn how things work in the real world. The real world is often very different from what is taught in school. A person who has just passed the necessary FCC exams to be the responsible engineer at a broadcast station is well versed in laws and theory. Learning how to operate and adjust the actual equipment is a completely different set of skills. The problem is similar in the nuke business. The clueless newbie won't know where to look or what to do. Errors of omission and commission will be common. If you're lucky, the errors will simply slow the process to the desired objective. Mistakes with nukes is a bad idea.

The short answer is that absent the old hands to mentor another generation to take responsiblity, we essentially lose the ability to leverage the technology. The billions of dollars expended to develop and perfect the technology is lost. Our competitive and strategic advantage is lost.

23 posted on 05/25/2006 9:58:15 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Doctor Stochastic
I would say (from experience) that the Current Administration is doing its best to run off scientists from this type of research. The Previous Administration tried but they were less competent. The political wranglings around nuclear weapons work makes is less stressful to be a lumberjack (as well as better paying.) Things have deteriorated monotonically at least since 1980 (and probably before.)

I'm working on another project that has been plagued with difficulty in finding cleared staff with the right skills and real ability to deliver. The good news is that we have managed to recruit a few top flight people under age 30. I'm pleased to see that happen. The new kids are still going through the clearance process. We still need to find some quality young candidates with math and physics PhDs that can take on the signal processing tasks.

I refer to some of them as "kids" as our Java GUI developer is 2 months younger than my middle son.

24 posted on 05/25/2006 10:07:58 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: GOPJ
Our pols are so short sighted. What can be done to transfer the information so when the time comes, it will be there?

My former project is keeping the irons hot with a reduced staff, reduced budget and a controlled maintenance process. The code jockeys are keeping the software maintained. The atrophy and attrition is happening in the ranks of the physicists who designed the methods and procedures that are memorialized in the current code base. It is their research money that has been restricted.

25 posted on 05/25/2006 10:21:47 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Paul Ross

Thanks for the ping!


26 posted on 05/25/2006 10:39:36 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Myrddin
The short answer is that absent the old hands to mentor another generation to take responsiblity, we essentially lose the ability to leverage the technology. The billions of dollars expended to develop and perfect the technology is lost. Our competitive and strategic advantage is lost.

So it mean that people are the most important asset. Not the preserved hardware or the one cheaply purchased from abroad.

27 posted on 05/26/2006 5:27:36 AM PDT by A. Pole (It is better to have $5M and live in Weston Massachusetts than to have $20M and to live in Bogota.)
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To: A. Pole
So it mean that people are the most important asset. Not the preserved hardware or the one cheaply purchased from abroad.

Which is a simple fact of nuclear military technology. A fact which is totally contradictory of the doctrinnaire idealogues who think "stockpiling of hardware" is sufficient.

28 posted on 05/26/2006 6:30:30 AM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Myrddin
My former project is keeping the irons hot with a reduced staff, reduced budget and a controlled maintenance process. The code jockeys are keeping the software maintained.

Funding has to happen...

29 posted on 05/26/2006 6:39:05 AM PDT by GOPJ (Real trolls are brief, insulting, and at the top of threads.)
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To: A. Pole
So it mean that people are the most important asset. Not the preserved hardware or the one cheaply purchased from abroad.

Yes. That is true of most technologies. The key asset is the intellectual capacity of the creative people who invent and perfect the ideas. Manufacture of hardware is the final step before deployment. Same for software.

Looking back in history, the druids refused to write down information. It was always passed along from teacher to student. When the Romans herded the druids onto the Isle of Anglesey and killed them all, the civilization was essentially wiped off the face of the earth.

As I pointed out before, the school books are full of the fundamental theories necessary to prime a bright student into a state of readiness. Learning about the real world implementations and pitfalls is a consequence of experience working in the field. If the old hands with the practical knowledge pass on before sharing their knowledge with the next generation of bright graduates, the real world knowledge of that body of technology will die with them. We will have to start from first principles again and spend the money to rediscover the knowledge that went to the grave.

Nikola Tesla was brilliant theorist and electrical engineer. Where are his followers today? Much of what he conceived lies stagnant on bookshelves.

30 posted on 05/26/2006 10:12:40 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: GOPJ
Funding has to happen...

The financial impacts of the Senate immigration bill aren't going to help the financial picture. I'm not betting my future on any money showing up. Like most of my former colleagues, I'll stick with the new lines of business in a commercial world that wants to pay for good technology.

31 posted on 05/26/2006 10:15:55 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: operation clinton cleanup
Russia has mobile ICBM's, why can't we?

We do. They're called "SLBMs."

32 posted on 05/26/2006 10:20:17 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: GOP_1900AD
They will turn them out like sausages. In fact, maybe they already are turning them out.

Vladimir Rezun's riff on that infamous quote from Khrushchev comes to mind.

33 posted on 05/26/2006 10:22:04 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Paul Ross
"I fear that we will know about the error of our ways with China only when it is indeed too late."

I got news for you; from time to time I hang out at the Nuclear Engineering department at a local university, and we are training everyone's nukes. I've been successful in persuading a couple Chinese to stay in the US, hoping that would be a win win for us (I try to do my part).

But at the same time I can't fault the Universities. In an attempt to prevent going out of business after the government destroyed the commercial nuke industry, the nuke departments had to get warm bodies to fill the seats from anywhere. US students did not want any part of that industry.

By the way, do you remember those nukes Pakistan and India developed?

There are two sayings in my business;

1. Pay me now or pay me later.

2. What goes around comes around.

The time is now later and it is coming around.
34 posted on 05/26/2006 10:39:16 AM PDT by Herakles (Liberals are stone stupid and proud of it!)
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To: indthkr
"I suspect that they also tell their kids (and friends kids) to NOT GO THERE as well "

I have discouraged every young person who was not already in a nuclear program not to do it - and so have many of my friends and their friends.

The only purpose of this democracy is to produce a victim class, film stars, and trial lawyers with superior living standards and superior rights. But when the blozack hits the spinning quidork, they always explain how people like me should do it for nothing to protect their way of life.

I would like to leave them with one thought; "He who has least to gain has least to lose"!
35 posted on 05/26/2006 10:58:55 AM PDT by Herakles (Liberals are stone stupid and proud of it!)
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To: GOP_1900AD
Redirect all non military NASA funding into reseeding our domestic armaments and platforms industries. Give a tax holiday to them all. Immediately stop all non military work at national labs.

Well, if nothing else, this idea is ambitiously wasteful. This strategy will end up in a bunch of nonproductive assets suddenly being labeled "defense industrial infrastructure" and getting listed as a tax break, until the tax holiday expires, whereupon a lot of those facilities will disappear into the night--and we still wouldn't have actually produced any hardware in the meantime.

As bad as the black budget got in the 1980s with lack of fiscal controls and procurement officials playing favorites with vendors, your plan would be far worse. I was there for that; suffice it to say that there are a number of well-heeled retired GS-12s and O-6s out there who made their fortune at SDIO, Air Force Space & Missiles Command, and NAVAIRSYSCOM, and delivered exactly nothing in terms of operational hardware. Your plan would be (much) more of the same.

War preparations must commence immediately for the inevitable (and, actually, winnable) Third World War.

We're fighting the Third World War right now. We're not going to be fighting the war you're thinking of, though.

Great power warfare to the final victory is obsolete because the mobilization price tag ends up cratering anyone's economy--it involves buying a bunch of assets that add exactly nothing to one's economic base.

Someone in the CIA ran a detailed economic analysis in the 1970s. They found that a large-scale conventional war (on the scale of a Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe and a Soviet drive to the Persian Gulf) would bankrupt the United States and the Western Allies in less than six months.

Well, this analyst scratched his head, puzzled. Something wasn't adding up. So he ran the same numbers for the Warsaw Pact countries. He found that the Warsaw Pact states were already teetering on the ragged edge of bankruptcy because of their oversized military forces.

The CIA terminated his consulting contract, because his analysis contradicted what the CIA's inhouse people were saying about how wonderful the Soviet economy was.

Care to guess who was right?

36 posted on 05/26/2006 12:19:50 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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