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Chimp Virus Is Linked to H.I.V.
NY Times ^ | May 26, 2006 | LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN

Posted on 05/25/2006 9:40:17 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: TASMANIANRED
Worst Job alert.

That's over my head. What's that supposed to mean, collecting contaminated chimp crap?

51 posted on 05/26/2006 9:43:48 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Until Doctors started killing HIV positive individuals with AZT and other antivirals, the only people dying were gays and intravenous drug abuserswho had driven their own immune systems into oblivion through drug use and other chronic insults to their immune systems.

No healthcare worker has ever died of a needle stick unless they were persuaded to undergo antiviral treatment. You say otherwise, then provide me with a name. I don't believe you can, because to the best of my kowledge there isn't one. Not one.

You say that "in many places around the world they are dying from HIV/AIDS without any retroviral drugs." I don't doubt that there are people all around the world dying of many causes, and no doubt some of them are HIV positive, but whatever they are dying from, they aren't dying of an HIV infection. They are merely dying of any one of a couple dozen different diseases.

But, because some are HIV positive, they are labled as "AIDS" patients or "AIDS" deaths, while the patient in the next bed dying of the exact same disease is denied the label because the individual is not HIV positive.

HIV is associated with AIDS solely by definition. Causality has nothing to do with it.


52 posted on 05/26/2006 11:43:20 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: kellynla

I'm waiting for someone to say this is racist.


53 posted on 05/26/2006 11:47:48 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Tired of Taxes

The vaccines in question were based on viruses cultivated in the kidney cells of primates known as green monkeys. That said, it is not certain whether SIV/HIV was present in that species as well as in chimpanzees....


54 posted on 05/26/2006 11:54:14 PM PDT by tracer
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To: John Valentine
Until Doctors started killing HIV positive individuals with AZT and other antivirals, the only people dying were gays and intravenous drug abuserswho had driven their own immune systems into oblivion through drug use and other chronic insults to their immune systems.

No healthcare worker has ever died of a needle stick unless they were persuaded to undergo antiviral treatment. You say otherwise, then provide me with a name. I don't believe you can, because to the best of my kowledge there isn't one. Not one.

The demand for the name of any healthcare worker is preposterous on the face of it. How could I obtain it in the first place, and then disclose it without liability?

AIDS therapy with azt first started in 1988 as a regular prescription drug

Glaxo's Patent Protection on First AIDS Drug, AZT, ends; AHF Blasts Glaxo's & Drug Industry's Greed

Give or take a year, National Guard troops were screened for HIV antibodies in 1987. After I received a scholarship from the goverment's Health Profession's Scholarship Program for medical school, I was discharged from my unit in May 1988. I had been an acting platoon sergeant at the time. One of my squad leaders was positive. Show me antiretroviral drug toxicity in blood and blood product recipients prior to that time in blood and blood product recipients.

55 posted on 05/27/2006 1:35:45 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Mother Abigail
Indeed. In addition I read a paper presented at the Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections conference that put the date of the first human infection at 1930. Granted it was plus or minus 15 years but it still predates the vaccine issue.

While the above is probably as definitive as it'll get I've seen other studies that suggest the first infection may have occured as early as the late 19th century.

56 posted on 05/27/2006 2:02:17 AM PDT by Proud_texan (I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run)
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To: neverdem

Unfortunately I don't have my references with me as I write, so I can't provide references or quotes. There have been several challenges trying to identify any healthcare worker infected with HIV who became an AIDS case without the intervention of antivirals. To my knowledge no individual meeting these criteria has ever been identified. I'm open to the possibility that someone exists, but its strange that not a single such individual has ever been identified.

Antiviral treatment is only one of a number of massive, chronic insults to the immune system that can cause immune system collapse and the onset of opportunisitic infections and diseases that are, because of the unique and circular way that AIDS is defined, commonly (or uncommonly) associated with AIDS. Neither I nor anyone sharing my perspective on this disease would suggest that prior to the use of AZT and other antivirals, that people weren't dying of a number of diseases ravaging individuals with profoundly weakened immune systems, only that the use of antivirals to treat otherwise benign HIV infections acerbated the situation, and created the false impression that the epidemic was spreading.


57 posted on 05/27/2006 3:08:08 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: vetvetdoug


The great tragedy of science -- the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.

--Thomas Huxley

MA


58 posted on 05/27/2006 5:10:46 AM PDT by Mother Abigail
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To: John Valentine
Unfortunately I don't have my references with me as I write, so I can't provide references or quotes.

If you don't have anything to say, maybe you shouldn't say anything. Healthcare personnel infected with HIV were 56 documented and 138 possible as of June 2000. Do you need the reference? Here AIDing Disease, comment# 16. Forget about them.

How do you account for the mortality of all of those infected by blood transfusions and blood products prior to the use of AZT? How do you account for the reduction of mortality in transfusion and blood product recipients since blood was screened for HIV antibodies?

HIV and the Blood Supply: An Analysis of Crisis Decisionmaking (1995)

How do you account for the decrease in mother to child transmission at childbirth, i.e. vertical transmission, with the use of antiretroviral drugs?

59 posted on 05/27/2006 11:59:28 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Crap inspector for Chimps doesn't sound like my dream job.


60 posted on 05/27/2006 12:00:03 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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To: neverdem

You seem to be informed, but at the same time you consistently refuse to listen.

I never denied that healthcare workers have been infected with HIV. It happens all the time. To what purpose do you regale me with this irrelevant fact?

Also, I have never claimed that antivirals don't work. I only point out that they do far more harm than good, since I do not beleive that there is a demonstrated causal link between HIV and AIDS.

Your point about a reduction in mortality in blood recipients is typically obtuse. Obviously, screening of blood donors will result in a reduction or elimination of HIV positive blood products and therefore its transmission to recipients. Naturally, there will be a reduction in mortality under such conditions. Thank God that Doctors aren't giving antivirals to non-HIV positive individuals.


61 posted on 05/27/2006 5:16:49 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: John Valentine
You seem to be informed, but at the same time you consistently refuse to listen.

I'm a board certified family practice doc.

Also, I have never claimed that antivirals don't work. I only point out that they do far more harm than good, since I do not beleive that there is a demonstrated causal link between HIV and AIDS.

I don't care what you believe. The preponderance of evidence does not support what you believe. I gave you at least a few solid links. You give me opinion. As the good folks in Missouri say, "Show me."

62 posted on 05/27/2006 5:47:21 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

So you don't care what I believe. I'm not bothered. I DO care what you believe, especially now that I understand that you are a physician, since you are in a position to do much concrete harm or good.

I also care that I am understood and not misconstrued, so that even if you don't care what I believe, at least you'll be uncaring with a modicum of precision.

As for a place to start reaching for a more complete understanding, I suggest that you might consider reading Peter Duesberg's "Inventing the AIDS Virus", Regnery, 1996. For more robust reading, "AIDS: Virus or Drug Induced?" Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1996.


63 posted on 05/27/2006 8:26:53 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: neverdem
As the good folks in Missouri say, "Show me."

Try this link:

The chemical bases of the various AIDS epidemics: recreational drugs, anti-viral chemotherapy and malnutrition

64 posted on 05/27/2006 8:38:14 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: John Valentine
In addition the CDC and WHO confirm that about 2/3 of the AIDS patients in the US and 1/2 of those in Europe are male homosexuals (§ 1), but, after the lifestyle hypothesis was abandoned in 1984, they did no longer report their drug use. Page 10 of 30 from the pdf link.

That's nonsense.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1302/table5.htm

Duesberg et al. completely ignore heterosexual spread of HIV/AIDS in Asia. The toxicity of DNA terminators, as Duesberg et al. call them IIRC, was well understood and readily available to all who were interested. Zidovudine, i.e. AZT, is a synthetic nucleoside analogue of thymidine. Any type of cell trying to replicate DNA is going to have a hard time.

65 posted on 05/28/2006 6:27:31 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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