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Gals gone whack-y - Many abuse males: survey
NY DAILY NEWS ^ | May 24th, 2006 | JORDAN LITE

Posted on 05/26/2006 9:36:18 AM PDT by neverdem

Many abuse males: survey

Women are as violent as their male companions - and sometimes more so, according to a controversial study presented yesterday at a domestic violence conference in Manhattan. The survey of 13,600 college students came to the surprising conclusion that in the majority of abusive relationships, women are the perpetrators at least as often as they are the victims of violence.

About one-third of students in 32 countries said they assaulted their partner in a survey conducted by the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire.

In 69% of cases, both men and women were violent. But women were the sole perpetrators in 21% of cases, compared with about 10% of relationships in which men were the only batterers.

Author Murray Straus, who presented the study at the Trends in Intimate Violence Intervention conference at NYU, said there was "overwhelming evidence that women assault their partners at about the same rate as men."

"The idea of chivalry is alive. Men genuinely believe 'never hit a woman' - up to a certain point. So when she gets angry at him and slaps him, kicks him, throws something, most men don't retaliate. But if she keeps on doing that, then it moves into the both doing it," Straus said.

"So many women have told me, 'I knew I wouldn't hurt him.' It's for some women a quintessentially feminine thing to do, to slap the cad," he said.

Stony Brook University Prof. Ruth Brandwein criticized Straus' findings.

"If you have two people in a relationship and the guy is 6-foot-2 and weighs 230 pounds and the woman is 5-foot-4 and weighs 130 pounds, just because they're both hitting each other doesn't mean it's equally violent. Her hitting him may be seen as a joke to him and his hitting her may terrorize her," Brandwein said.

Rates of intimate partner violence are higher among college-age students than in older couples, Straus said. Another survey of 1,200 university students found that 41% of women and 31% of men have been hit by their partner, said Katie Gentile, director of the women's center at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

But Gentile said men usually become violent as a way of controlling women, while women who are violent often become so to prevent the man from attacking first.

"I don't think [women] are getting more violent," she said. "I think women are admitting it more, probably. They might be fighting back more."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abuse; feminism; men; sexes; vawa; violence; women
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Violence Against Women Act abuses the rights of men
1 posted on 05/26/2006 9:36:20 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

This isn't fair! Wome should only fight other women. The males role should be to standby and make sure the women don't start kissing during the fight. He would be required to break that up.


2 posted on 05/26/2006 9:41:39 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: kinghorse

You'd break it up if they started kissing? WTF?!?


3 posted on 05/26/2006 9:43:33 AM PDT by lesser_satan (EKTHELTHIOR!!!)
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To: neverdem

why is this surprising (to them, no offense to you); this has been known and documented for 20 years or more.


4 posted on 05/26/2006 9:44:45 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: lesser_satan
Not to mention the unfortunate lack of Jello involved.
5 posted on 05/26/2006 9:47:02 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: avg_freeper

Or mud....


7 posted on 05/26/2006 9:49:43 AM PDT by lovecraft (Specialization is for insects.)
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To: avg_freeper

Jello, oil, mud, KY, whatever, 'sall good.


8 posted on 05/26/2006 9:50:34 AM PDT by lesser_satan (EKTHELTHIOR!!!)
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To: All
This appears to be the paper in pdf format, 32 pages.

Paper presented at conference on Trends In Intimate Violence Intervention, sponsored by the
University of Haifa and New York University. New York University, May 23, 2006.

DOMINANCE AND SYMMETRY IN PARTNER VIOLENCE
BY MALE AND FEMALE UNIVERSITY STUDENTS
IN 32 NATIONS1

Murray A. Straus
Family Research Laboratory, University of New Hampshire
Durham, NH 03824 603-862-2594 murray.straus@unh.edu
Website: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2

9 posted on 05/26/2006 9:54:06 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem


Feminists only believe in "good" equality. If there are "bad" numbers then it's sexist.


10 posted on 05/26/2006 9:54:58 AM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: Sax

I hear ya, but the only problem is, guys get arrested even if they're the ones with a black eye and she hasn't even suffered a small bruise. Guys get scared that they'll be seen as monsters and be put in jail and I can't blame them.


11 posted on 05/26/2006 10:01:56 AM PDT by Mazda3Fan
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To: feinswinesuksass; najida; zarf

FYI..here ya go..


12 posted on 05/26/2006 10:05:04 AM PDT by ken5050 (GWB, Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, freed hundreds of millions.# of Nobel PeacePrizes: ZERO)
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To: Sax
Sorry to tell you, but in the People's Republic of California, restraint is also a form of assault.

My employer was having words with his wife in their kids' playroom. She decided to throw a "Big Wheel" (large and heavy) type toy at him and missed, but almost clobbered their daughter. She went on to throw a few more items at him before he put her arm behind her back and took her into the hall to calm down.

When the police arrived after complaints by neighbors, they found her having tea in the kitchen, crying and trying to compose herself. When the Santa Clara PD asked him what happened, he stated the story just as above, which in this community is an admission of of assault. She admitted to the events just the same as happened. He had no marks on him, but she had the marks of his hand(s) on her forearm, so he was taken away.

Their marriage ended soon after because my employer could not trust his wife and have his liberty in such question. My role as a witness to the incident helped not at all. I love both of these people and disappointed that the state has ruined their home over such a small matter.

In California, if either party is the least prone to being physical, the marriage is over. I suppose you have to let the violence get out of hand and also hurt your children before anything matters.

13 posted on 05/26/2006 10:05:26 AM PDT by dersepp (I Am A Militia Of One)
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To: kinghorse

" Women should only fight other women"",..in..the..mud


14 posted on 05/26/2006 10:10:42 AM PDT by himno hero
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To: Sax
Even in the worst of cases, you can restrain without fighting

Your generalizations are sweeping and baseless.

15 posted on 05/26/2006 10:12:46 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: dersepp; Mazda3Fan; dirtboy

I hear what y'all are saying, but I've never really considered laws when dealing with any husband/wife type arguements and I've still managed to keep out of jail.

Maybe just lucky, maybe just choose wisely, dunno..


16 posted on 05/26/2006 10:14:54 AM PDT by Sax
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To: dirtboy

Your responses are vague and vapid.


17 posted on 05/26/2006 10:16:06 AM PDT by Sax
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To: neverdem
But Gentile said men usually become violent as a way of controlling women, while women who are violent often become so to prevent the man from attacking first.

This conclusion is based on ...

BTW, this research exactly mirrors the conclusions of Erin Pizzey, who started the first battered women's shelters in London decades ago. She was a major feminist heroine until she published her observations that the majority of violence in relationships was started by the woman (although usually finished by the man.)

She immediately became one of the most hated women in the world.

See http://www.fathersforlife.org/pizzey/planned_destruction_of_family.htm.

18 posted on 05/26/2006 10:18:43 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Sax
I've never really considered laws when dealing with any husband/wife type arguements

You also have never dealt with women who are capable of kicking a lot of men's arses in their own right.

And in my case, I am large enough that I have to be extremely careful in how to deal with an abusive woman, given that I can severely injure her even if I am just trying to restrain her.

So I take serious umbrage at your statement "Get your pair out of her purse." That was pure idiocy - in fact, I would call it worse, but it would not pass the posting guidelines.

19 posted on 05/26/2006 10:18:54 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: neverdem
"If you have two people in a relationship and the guy is 6-foot-2 and weighs 230 pounds and the woman is 5-foot-4 and weighs 130 pounds, just because they're both hitting each other doesn't mean it's equally violent. Her hitting him may be seen as a joke to him and his hitting her may terrorize her," Brandwein said.

Oh, that's special. She can initiate the violence and it's just a big joke.

20 posted on 05/26/2006 10:20:02 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax
Your responses are vague and vapid.

I just got far more specific. And don't even try to get a flame war started with the crap you've strewn so far on this thread.

21 posted on 05/26/2006 10:20:46 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: dirtboy

Would you allow yourself to be abused by a woman?

You've got many ways to avoid this, pick the right woman, communicate effectively and with love, and when things get heated, be able to remain of clear thought.

Strength under control is gentleness, and it is possible to restrain without causing harm, but not if you are ham-handed or over emotional.


22 posted on 05/26/2006 10:25:33 AM PDT by Sax
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To: dirtboy

Flaming is for sissies. I can discuss.


23 posted on 05/26/2006 10:26:43 AM PDT by Sax
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To: Sax
Would you allow yourself to be abused by a woman?

You act like you can always see it coming well before it happens.

You've got many ways to avoid this, pick the right woman, communicate effectively and with love, and when things get heated, be able to remain of clear thought.

Easy enough to say until you've had a female rabid badger coming after you.

Strength under control is gentleness, and it is possible to restrain without causing harm, but not if you are ham-handed or over emotional.

Unless the woman in question has no desire to be restained and can whup a lot of men if she so desired.

24 posted on 05/26/2006 10:28:17 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax
Flaming is for sissies. I can discuss.

Oh, yeah, sure, you are so intent on discussion with how you entered this thread.

25 posted on 05/26/2006 10:28:45 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax

"pick the right woman" - Exactly. My wife and I have been together since our freshman year of college, almost 16 years now and we'd NEVER consider hitting each other.


26 posted on 05/26/2006 10:28:49 AM PDT by Mazda3Fan
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To: dirtboy

27 posted on 05/26/2006 10:29:43 AM PDT by evets (ouch.)
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To: Mazda3Fan
"pick the right woman" - Exactly.

Of course, some were severely abused when they were younger and you don't realize how bad their problems are.

It's easy to talk in generalities. But a lot of men have to deal with specifics. As you can see by the dumbass remark by the professor above, it's just a joke when a woman hits a man. I would love to introduce the good professor to a few women I've known, let them take a shot at him, and see if he thinks it's still funny.

28 posted on 05/26/2006 10:31:18 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: neverdem

I have noticed that it is acceptable, reasoned, funny and justified when movies show women pinching, hitting, kicking or otherwise hurting men. If the privates or family jewels come into play, it's even better.

I think it's a big mistake to portray this type of activity as acceptable.


29 posted on 05/26/2006 10:33:11 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Botulism: Doing the same thing over and over and over, yet expecting a different outcome.)
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To: dirtboy

I'm not saying that there aren't rabid, exception to the general rule type 'ladies' out there, but this article said 21%. I'm stating my own opinion here, but I just don't think the number of powerful, rabid women can be that high, which leads me to believe that some of these guys are choosing to take a passive role in their own abuse.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that they in turn attempt abuse as retailiation, but I would think they could/should be avoiding the situation. In the end though, to each their own I guess - I've seen plenty of disfunctional relationships.


30 posted on 05/26/2006 10:34:11 AM PDT by Sax
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To: dirtboy

Look dirtboy, I entered the thread with light hearted humor, sorry you took in the wrong way (see Ryan Seacrest and tranquilizer darts.)


31 posted on 05/26/2006 10:35:35 AM PDT by Sax
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To: Sax

Oh, I guess you can no longer see it.

Someone's had it pulled.


32 posted on 05/26/2006 10:39:26 AM PDT by Sax
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To: dirtboy

I had a female co-worker who used to raise her knuckle and sock me in the arm. She thought it was funny, and I'm sure she was just doing it to be friendly, one of the guys so to speak. It was very painful.

This went on for about a year, while I asked her to please stop doing it. I explained that it hurt.

Finally one day I deliberatly raised my knuckle and returned the favor. I tried to do it moderately, which is not what she had done.

She never did it again.

Women get the idea that they can't hurt men. Bull --it.


33 posted on 05/26/2006 10:39:42 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Botulism: Doing the same thing over and over and over, yet expecting a different outcome.)
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To: Sax
some of these guys are choosing to take a passive role in their own abuse.

As you can see in the article, and as your own initial response indicated as well, lots of folks make it seem like it's a joke. It's not, and the situation is never as simple as anyone who has never experienced it makes it out to be. Plenty of men have gone to jail because when they restrained the woman, they bruised her arms and that is what the cops saw when the arrived. Quite frankly, the best advise for the man is to skedaddle if things get out of control and she starts hitting or throwing things, and never accept someone hitting you in a relationship. If the person cannot do that, either call the cops or get out of the relationship. Trying to restrain someone often just escalates the violence, because if they are angry enough to hit, they are already out of control and have no desire to be controlled in any manner until they have calmed down.

34 posted on 05/26/2006 10:39:46 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax
I entered the thread with light hearted humor,

Har. Har. Har. That was really funny.

35 posted on 05/26/2006 10:40:44 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: dirtboy
"If you have two people in a relationship and the guy is 6-foot-2 and weighs 230 pounds and the woman is 5-foot-4 and weighs 130 pounds, just because they're both hitting each other doesn't mean it's equally violent. Her hitting him may be seen as a joke to him and his hitting her may terrorize her," Brandwein said.
Oh, that's special. She can initiate the violence and it's just a big joke.


odd that i don't see anything going the other way. i weigh in at a scant 117# my first wife weighed over 2x that. yet, when i asked a cop what chance i'd have of pressing charges against her, he laughed at me. told me i was the guy, no matter what happened or how much bigger she was, i'd get arrested.
36 posted on 05/26/2006 10:42:09 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: DoughtyOne
Finally one day I deliberatly raised my knuckle and returned the favor.

And in this day and age, that could get you fired. Or worse.

37 posted on 05/26/2006 10:42:38 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: dirtboy

In this we can agree - male or female - accept no physical abuse. And if it occurs, the relationship needs to end barring colossal changes.

We do disagree that restraint properly applied, can be a last ditch option. (Wild children, enraged women, mentally unstable people)


38 posted on 05/26/2006 10:43:27 AM PDT by Sax
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To: Sax
We do disagree that restraint properly applied, can be a last ditch option.

I'm curious - have you ever had to restrain your spouse or girlfriend?

39 posted on 05/26/2006 10:44:47 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax
possible to restrain without causing harm

If the person is determined to harm you and to not be restrained then no, it is not possible to do it. Not within the constraints of what is not considered a form of assault. The way laws are worded if you so much as lay a finger on someone with the intent of making them do something they don't want to (like stop hitting you) then depending on the prosecutor you could be charged.

What do you consider 'harm'? Broken bones? Yeah you can restrain without those. Bruises? You have to be very lucky to really restrain someone that really does not want to get restrained without bruising them. unless they just don't bruise easily. Pain? You would have to be vastly stronger than then, much better trained at unarmed combat and lucky. Even then there is no way you could prove in a court that you did not cause them pain.
40 posted on 05/26/2006 10:46:04 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Mazda3Fan

Good job Mazda!

I know domestic violence exists. Thank God I've never been involved in that kind of thing.


41 posted on 05/26/2006 10:46:18 AM PDT by Canedawg (In God We Trust)
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To: dirtboy

Probably so, but then she would have had to admit she'd done it for a long time despite my requests to stop. Others had seen her doing it.


42 posted on 05/26/2006 10:47:42 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Botulism: Doing the same thing over and over and over, yet expecting a different outcome.)
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To: dirtboy

I can say that I have had to restrain people before, and I've never hurt one.


43 posted on 05/26/2006 10:47:57 AM PDT by Sax
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To: TalonDJ
. The way laws are worded if you so much as lay a finger on someone with the intent of making them do something they don't want to (like stop hitting you) then depending on the prosecutor you could be charged.

And the Duke lacross case shows how much hell a prosecutor can unleash upon someone when they so desire and have any kind of legal opening to do such.

44 posted on 05/26/2006 10:48:20 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Sax
I can say that I have had to restrain people before, and I've never hurt one.

I didn't say people - I said girlfriend or spouse. That's far different from pulling a guy back from a fight.

45 posted on 05/26/2006 10:49:03 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: DoughtyOne
Probably so, but then she would have had to admit she'd done it for a long time despite my requests to stop. Others had seen her doing it.

And the way a lot of companies are nowadays, they'd just fire you both.

46 posted on 05/26/2006 10:50:42 AM PDT by dirtboy (When Bush is on the same side as Ted the Swimmer on an issue, you know he's up to no good...)
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To: Mazda3Fan
I hear ya, but the only problem is, guys get arrested even if they're the ones with a black eye and she hasn't even suffered a small bruise. Guys get scared that they'll be seen as monsters and be put in jail and I can't blame them.

You are exactly right. One of my best friends got into an arguement with his hell-cat of a wife. She punched him, pushed him through a window, cutting his arm wide open. He didn't lay a finger on her. Guess who got arrested? Guess who was taken to jail? Guess who has to go to court-ordered Anger Management classes? (at $60 bucks a class). His wife? Not hardly.

47 posted on 05/26/2006 10:50:59 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Women get the idea that they can't hurt men. Bull --it.

and many guys thing women can't possibly hurt them. One thing I have learned from karate is that no matter how big and tough you are anyone with some knowledge can cause you great pain. Bigger muscles don't pad most nerves. The old 'punch in the arm' often hits a big nerve right in a valley between muscles. You can have the biceps of a Olympic lifter and it will still hurt like heck if they hit you right.
48 posted on 05/26/2006 10:51:11 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: neverdem

"So when she gets angry at him and slaps him, kicks him, throws something, most men don't retaliate. "

Wrong! I worked as a bouncer in a nightclub after I got out of the Navy and I learned really quickly how vicious women can be. I've been attacked more than once by weapon wielding, foaming at the mouth women that just couldn't believe someone would tell them "NO!". Then they couldn't believe someone knocked them on their butt and the cops were hauling them to the squad car.


49 posted on 05/26/2006 10:52:51 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: TalonDJ

I'm not saying that you can do it effectively and remain free of legal trouble. That's why it's a last ditch option.

Worst case example to prove a point - a mentally unstable person goes wild - there are women and children present. That unstable person can be restrained without serious damage, but that doesn't mean they may not have some scratches or bruising. Again, if you aren't competent in that area, you probably wouldn't have that as an option.


50 posted on 05/26/2006 10:53:24 AM PDT by Sax
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