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U.N. "Disarming" Iraq from WMD while allowing them WMD???
U.N. Export List to Iraq ^ | May 28, 2006 | avacado

Posted on 05/28/2006 6:59:14 AM PDT by avacado

My subject title doesn't make sense, does it? How coud the U.N. be disarming Iraq from WMD while allowing them WMD at the same time. Is there a 4th dimension of space that I am not aware of?

Chemicals allowed for export to Iraq by other countries:

- Sodium Cyanide
- Hydrogen Cyanide
- Phosgene

Well golly, gee-whiz... those chemicals are WMD with a world history of being used as chemical weapons. The U.N. is a complete joke! They are looking for chemical weapons while allowing Saddam to purchase chemical weapons! Yeah, that's the ticket! Makes good sense to me!

U.N. (Oil-for-Food programme) Goods Review List: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/S-2002-515.pdf


TOPICS: War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bush; iraq; iraqiintelligence; prewardocs; prewarintelligence; saddam; terrorism; wmd; wmds; wot
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Give me one cowboy from Crawford, Texas over these U.N. nitwits any day.
1 posted on 05/28/2006 6:59:17 AM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado

Ridiculous. Everyone knows that Iraq has no WMD and never did.


2 posted on 05/28/2006 7:00:55 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: avacado
I don't know about phosgene, but the rest of those chemicals have industrial uses, such as electroplating.
3 posted on 05/28/2006 7:02:22 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Carry_Okie
--- I don't know about phosgene, but the rest of those chemicals have industrial uses, such as electroplating. ---

Dual use chemicals that have a history of being used as chemical weapons should NOT be allowed. There are 2 lists in that PDF document and many chemicals are banned from Iraq and hydrogen cyanide and phosgene should be on the banned list.

What's the point of inspections if Saddam can have all the hydrogen cyanide and phosgene his little heart desires?

5 posted on 05/28/2006 7:07:43 AM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado
Dual use chemicals that have a history of being used as chemical weapons should NOT be allowed.

I'd prefer to allow our military people decide that. The inability to run a plating operation can seriously hamper oil production, for example.

What's the point of inspections if Saddam can have all the hydrogen cyanide and phosgene his little heart desires?

What planet are you on? Excuse me, but he's in jail.

6 posted on 05/28/2006 7:13:58 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

This mindset is exactly why a rogue nation must attack and kill many before any international action can be taken. It is wrong to hold terror to that high of a standard... or any standard for that matter. EVIL is EVIL.

LLS


7 posted on 05/28/2006 7:14:28 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Preserve America... kill terrorists... destroy dims!)
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To: Carry_Okie
--- What planet are you on? Excuse me, but he's in jail. ---

Yes, I know that. Thanks for the update. And had you read what I wrote, I was referring to inspections. You know, the past. And if you want to support Saddam having had hydrogen cyanide and phosgene then that's just fine.

8 posted on 05/28/2006 7:18:40 AM PDT by avacado
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To: Carry_Okie; avacado
What planet are you on? Excuse me, but he's in jail.

I think someone's missed the war. Now if Saddam's acquitted of all charges and he reclaims his former position, we've got a serious problem. As of right now, this is a non-issue, unless there's some weird chemical weapons smuggling ring selling phosgene to, say... Iran or Syria.
9 posted on 05/28/2006 7:20:44 AM PDT by Renderofveils (Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them until all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”)
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To: avacado
And had you read what I wrote, I was referring to inspections. You know, the past.

Just to avoid confusion, you may want to write historical commentary in the past tense.
10 posted on 05/28/2006 7:23:24 AM PDT by Renderofveils (Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them until all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”)
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To: avacado
I was referring to inspections. You know, the past.

Then make that clear, you know, by providing dates. For all I know the UN is regulating Iraqi imports today.

And if you want to support Saddam having had hydrogen cyanide and phosgene then that's just fine.

As I said, I don't know about phosgene, but I do know that lethal gases are used in the production of agricultural pesticides (remember Bhopal?). Were we allowing the Iraqis to import pesticides for agriculture, they could obtain the chemicals to produce WMD them. So, are you advocating that the Iraqis under Saddam not be allowed to grow food?

The fact is that dual use is a reality of chemistry and that the legitimate uses are facts of economic necessity. WMD can be produced from chemicals that are necessary for everyday sustenance. Thus the only real way to preclude the conversion of chemicals into WMD was the inspection routine. Such isn't so simple as you would wish.

11 posted on 05/28/2006 7:27:48 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie
--- I was referring to inspections. You know, the past. ---

Then make that clear, you know, by providing dates. For all I know the UN is regulating Iraqi imports today.

I have had enough of you. Had you READ the document that I posted instead of shooting your mouth off we wouldn't be having this conversation. The document is dated and refers to prior UN Resolutions.

Have a nice day.

12 posted on 05/28/2006 7:39:20 AM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado

Unfortunately, wasn't it under the Reagan administration that Iraq was removed frm the terrorist-sponsoring lists, allowing dual use tech to be exported there?


13 posted on 05/28/2006 7:41:59 AM PDT by Gorobei
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To: avacado
What's the point of inspections if Saddam can have all the hydrogen cyanide and phosgene his little heart desires?

Ummm...he's not in power anymore. There was this war in 2003 and he was removed from power.

Then, in July of 2003, his sons Uday and Qusay were killed by American forces.

Then in December '03, Saddam was captured by U.S. forces in a spider hole in Tikrit.

I know he still says he's the President of Iraq, but he's really not. It's a guy named Talabani now and he's on our side.

14 posted on 05/28/2006 7:48:10 AM PDT by Allegra (Finbar for Texas Governor!)
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To: avacado
Seeing as you've now had comments from three others responding to the confusion in your post, best you deal with the fact that what you meant isn't what you wrote.
15 posted on 05/28/2006 7:52:48 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: avacado
You spelled "avocado", wrong troll.

You never heard of the concept of multiple use chemicals?
You are aware that many lethal compounds can be made from common household chemicals and products?

You want to prevent them from making detergents? Industrial solvents? Other useful things not WMDs?

Perhaps your most important goal is to remind us all that something else in Iraq is being screwed up by George Bush and "his" war?

16 posted on 05/28/2006 7:52:56 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: Allegra
--- What's the point of inspections if Saddam can have all the hydrogen cyanide and phosgene his little heart desires? ---

Ummm...he's not in power anymore. There was this war in 2003 and he was removed from power.

Errrr.... this was about the inspections prior to the war. You know, back when the U.N. was trying to disarm Iraq just as the title says. Read the document instead of being glib with me.

17 posted on 05/28/2006 7:54:16 AM PDT by avacado
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To: Gorobei
--- Unfortunately, wasn't it under the Reagan administration that Iraq was removed frm the terrorist-sponsoring lists, allowing dual use tech to be exported there?

The subject is about the inspections and the chemicals allowed by the U.N. during a 12 year period of disarmament. Maybe you should start a Reagan post for your subject....red herring.

18 posted on 05/28/2006 7:56:48 AM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado

Or maybe I'll post where I please.

Perhaps it was a necessary evil at the time, given the rise of the Iranian threat, but getting that sort of technology into Hussein's hands in the first place was not a good idea.


19 posted on 05/28/2006 7:59:58 AM PDT by Gorobei
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To: Publius6961
--- You spelled "avocado", wrong troll. ---

Two things. I can spell the word any way I like. It's a made up name. Second, I am no troll. I came here for the prewar documents and have been trying to assist jveriats in any manner that I can. I was also asked by jveritas to make this post.

And it's nice to see that you are incapable of discussing the subject of the UN allowing the Hussein regime to have phosgene and hydrogen cyanide - known WMD.

Have a nice day.

20 posted on 05/28/2006 8:00:56 AM PDT by avacado
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To: Renderofveils; avacado
As of right now, this is a non-issue, unless there's some weird chemical weapons smuggling ring selling phosgene to, say... Iran or Syria.

I agree. Iraq and chemical weapons aren't an issue at this point. We have an embassy in Iraq now. And a bunch of military bases.

And Saddam's locked up in an fortress in the Radwaniyah sectio undisclosed location (sorry, but it's the worst-kept secret in Iraq) unless he has to be in court.

21 posted on 05/28/2006 8:02:43 AM PDT by Allegra (Finbar for Texas Governor!)
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To: Carry_Okie

The Germans know ALL about Phosgene!


22 posted on 05/28/2006 8:05:59 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: avacado
The subject is about the inspections and the chemicals allowed by the U.N. during a 12 year period of disarmament.

Want to talk 'red herring'?

When did that 12-year period end?
Why do you think it's important today?

I couldn't care less at this point. Why am I talking to a troll?
Have a nice day.

23 posted on 05/28/2006 8:06:31 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: TADSLOS

Hey,that's right,Bush lied!!!


24 posted on 05/28/2006 8:06:31 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: avacado

BTTT


25 posted on 05/28/2006 8:08:51 AM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: Publius6961
--- Want to talk 'red herring'? When did that 12-year period end? Why do you think it's important today? I couldn't care less at this point. ---

I don't really care what YOU want. Understand. I was simply putting forth known chemcials weapons that the UN was allowing Saddam to import at a time when inspectors were in the country looking to destroy chemcial weapons.

As for you, you have issues.

26 posted on 05/28/2006 8:11:26 AM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado

Raw chemicals that could have been used for the manufacture of chemical weapons should NEVER have been allowed to be shipped to Iraq while Saddam was in power. If the UN was concerned about Iraq having fertilizer (or pesticides) to facilitate crop growth then they should have made arrangements to ship the pre-processed materials to the fields where it was to be applied. Why we as a nation give a penny of support to the UN is beyond my comprehension...


27 posted on 05/28/2006 9:12:19 AM PDT by GW and Twins Pawpaw (Sheepdog for Five [My grandkids are way more important than any lefty's feelings!])
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To: avacado
The U.N. is a complete joke!

This just in... :D

28 posted on 05/28/2006 9:23:05 AM PDT by Fruitbat
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To: Fruitbat; avacado
This thread is like a time warp.

Where's Hans Blix?

29 posted on 05/28/2006 10:06:05 AM PDT by Allegra (Thread Hijacker Extraordinaire)
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To: Publius6961; avacado; My2Cents; jveritas; Peach
Hey, Carry_Okie and Publius6961. What is your DEAL? Don't be back-stabbers; you're too eager on this one and you've jumped the gun. I googled Sodium cyanide, and found no healthful use for it on the Wikipedia listing, unless Iraq is big into mining. It's one of the most rapidly-acting poisons. Granted, hydrogen cyanide can be used for good purposes, but so can nuclear bombs, and we didn't send THEM to Saddam either.

Avacado, good catch. I checked out the PDF and couldn't find quanities listed anywhere. Is there any way of finding that out, I wonder?

Ping to Greg and Peach, my other FRiends who were (and presumably still are) interested in the WMD discussion.
30 posted on 05/28/2006 11:53:28 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger ("Good guys" aren't always "nice guys".)
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To: Carry_Okie

You can use phosgene for 'human plating' but we have no evidence that Saddam ateany of his adversaries.


31 posted on 05/28/2006 12:09:41 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Allegra
--- This thread is like a time warp. Where's Hans Blix? ---

Really? How so? I have never seen posted, nor discussed, the Goods Review List of the U.N.'s regarding Iraq nor have I seen posted, nor discussed, then fact that while the U.N. was searching for chemical weapons Iraq was allowed to import chemical weapons.

Look, if this thread is not your cup of tea, then move along. It's that easy.

32 posted on 05/28/2006 12:24:36 PM PDT by avacado
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To: DaveLoneRanger
--- I googled Sodium cyanide, and found no healthful use for it on the Wikipedia listing, unless Iraq is big into mining. It's one of the most rapidly-acting poisons. ---

Saddam had a past history of using sodium cyanide to manufacture the chemical weapon called tabun.

--- Avacado, good catch. I checked out the PDF and couldn't find quanities listed anywhere. Is there any way of finding that out, I wonder? ---

Countries could freely export to Iraq anything on List A that is less than 10% solution and if more than that concentrate then they were supposed to submit a form to the UN. I believe a company in Finland exported sodium cyanide to Iraq in 2002 without submitting a form to the UN. And since the program was handled by the Oil-for-Food program, we all know how honest that operation was.

33 posted on 05/28/2006 12:30:39 PM PDT by avacado
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To: MHGinTN
You can use phosgene for 'human plating' but we have no evidence that Saddam ateany of his adversaries.

Phosgene is an intermediate chemical in the production of pesticides and herbicides.

34 posted on 05/28/2006 12:39:45 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

And of course Saddam needed millions of tons to sustain that massive agricultural infrastructure he operated, planting Iranians.


35 posted on 05/28/2006 12:46:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
And of course Saddam needed millions of tons to sustain that massive agricultural infrastructure he operated, planting Iranians.

Millions of tons? Prove it.

36 posted on 05/28/2006 12:55:20 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Who are you, Ramsey Clark? Where did you check your sense of humor when you clicked on FR today?


37 posted on 05/28/2006 1:02:26 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
Hyperbole is not debate. The point is that dual use can only be verified by inspection and audit. To ban the importation of phosgene, is pointless because it denies how easy it is to produce. To assert that a country with a large ag and chemical base should be incapable of manufacturing phosgene is equally silly. They could simply overheat vinyl to get loads of it. I doubt anyone was suggesting that Iraq under OFF should have been incapable of importing vinyl goods. It's silly, and it's therefore understandable why the UN blew off direct import controls, preferring to audit weapons production and storage.

Thus in no way am I saying that Saddam was no threat to use phosgene for WMD. What I am saying is that blowing off control of its import is not prima facae evidence that the UN is approving of their manufacture.

38 posted on 05/28/2006 1:11:31 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Allegra
Where's Hans Blix? Perhaps Scott Ritter, Jacques Chirac, and Slick Willie needed a 4th for bridge. :) This whole thread has been rather silly.
39 posted on 05/28/2006 1:56:37 PM PDT by Gorobei
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To: Renderofveils; Carry_Okie; avacado
Now if Saddam's acquitted of all charges and he reclaims his former position, we've got a serious problem.

Saddam is NOT getting out of an Iraqi jail with his skin....sorry if that blows up your theory, but it just won't happen. Beyond that, the Saudis and the Kuwaitis want a piece of him once the Iraqis are done.
40 posted on 05/28/2006 1:59:09 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (aka MikeinIraq)
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To: DaveLoneRanger; avacado

Good post, avacado; thanks for the thread and thank you for assisting freeper's trying to translate those documents.

Thanks for the ping, Dave, and for remembering my interest in this matter.

The UN hasn't dealt honestly with the Iraq/WMD situation for their own agenda-driven reasons and since the UN is so dirty, I tend to trust freeper translations more than any others.


41 posted on 05/28/2006 2:11:03 PM PDT by Peach (DICC's - doing the work for the DNC)
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To: Peach

Thanks Peach! It's a tough crowd in here today! ;-)


42 posted on 05/28/2006 2:29:29 PM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado
Thank you for posting this list. It is just unbelievable!
43 posted on 05/28/2006 4:27:55 PM PDT by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Publius6961; avacado
Just realx Publius. Avacado is not a troll but he is a great freeper. He is showing a list of Chemical that was allowed by the UN to be imported by Saddam regime and these chemicals can be used for manufacturing Chemical Weapons. Does it have industrial use? Yes it does, but in the hand of Saddam regime everything is made to be a weapon. After reading thousands of pages of Iraqi documents I am more convinced than ever that this regime obsession with WMD never stopped and in fact was more intense during the 1991-2003 period.

One of the most important debate of the Iraq war was the WMD issue and every point that show that Saddam has WMD, or has the capability of manufacturing must be made public because the liberal liars and their media want us to believe that this man never had or never had the intention to acquire WMD from 1991 to 2003.

44 posted on 05/28/2006 4:37:59 PM PDT by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Carry_Okie
Yes and Phosgene was one of the first Chemical weapons ever used. As I said in other posts the list of chemicals that avacadod showed is very a dangerous one to be "dual use" since these chemicals can be turned into deadly Chemical Weapons. We are talking about Saddam regime here!
45 posted on 05/28/2006 4:43:04 PM PDT by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: jveritas
Yes and Phosgene was one of the first Chemical weapons ever used. As I said in other posts the list of chemicals that avacadod showed is very a dangerous one to be "dual use" since these chemicals can be turned into deadly Chemical Weapons. We are talking about Saddam regime here!

Look, I know how bad both phosgene and Saddam are. I have no dispute with that. Here is the reality: you can make phosgene by overheating PVC plastics. It's easy. PVC is everywhere.

The only way to preclude phosgene being used as a chemical weapon is to monitor manufacturing and storage of the bulk materials and delivery systems. Preventing imports accomplishes very little.

46 posted on 05/28/2006 4:50:38 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie
The list above allowed both import and local manufacturing and that where the problem was.

In term of producing Phosgene from heating plastic, I think if this is the case we will have thousands of dead people everyday. The company I work for supply control elements to chemical firms that manufacture Phosgene and this was of the toughest applications we deal with because our control element must be designed to have zero leakage to the atmosphere because Phosgene is simply extremely deadly once it is inhaled.

47 posted on 05/28/2006 5:25:39 PM PDT by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: jveritas
In term of producing Phosgene from heating plastic, I think if this is the case we will have thousands of dead people everyday. The company I work for supply control elements to chemical firms that manufacture Phosgene and this was of the toughest applications we deal with because our control element must be designed to have zero leakage to the atmosphere because Phosgene is simply extremely deadly once it is inhaled.

I was in the business of making vinyl gloves for seven years. Producing phosgene when we locked up the line was a concern.

48 posted on 05/28/2006 6:37:59 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie; jveritas
--- Look, I know how bad both phosgene and Saddam are. I have no dispute with that. Here is the reality: you can make phosgene by overheating PVC plastics. It's easy. PVC is everywhere. ---

"Chlorine gas is never produced when PVC burns, and while the possibility of producing phosgene from burning PVC has been suggested, following reports of minimal quantities produced in laboratory experiments, it has never been detected in large scale fire tests and it is not considered a significant product of PVC combustion."

http://www.svpindustries.com/pdf/pvc-and-fire.pdf

49 posted on 05/28/2006 7:58:42 PM PDT by avacado
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To: avacado
Exactly. If PVC burning will produce any significant doze of Phosgene, thousands of people will die every day.
50 posted on 05/28/2006 8:04:37 PM PDT by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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