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New motto for Bush: Semper fiasco (GREELEY ALERT)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 2, 2006 | ANDREW GREELEY

Posted on 06/02/2006 10:13:00 AM PDT by Chi-townChief

God, our Muslim brothers remind us, is the merciful and the compassionate. There- fore, we do not make moral judgments on morality of others. It is up to God to make such judgments. So the moral guilt of the American Marines who apparently murdered perhaps two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, last November must be left to heaven. Yet, in the objective order these murders of men, women and children are a disgrace to the United States and to the Corps and to all the dead we honored last Monday. Their actions are likely to lead to the murder of many Americans by Islamic terrorists who are not quite as compassionate and merciful as God.

Yet questions must be asked. What are the Marines doing in Iraq, much less riding in patrols down isolated, dusty desert roads? The Marines are an elite unit. They charge through Belleau Woods, they land on beaches at Tarawa, they climb Mount Suribachi on Iwo Jima and raise the American flag, they push toward the Yalu River in North Korea in the depth of winter cold and then, cut off from main American forces, "redeploy" from the Chosun Reservoir and out of the trap.

During this epic retreat, Curtis Kiesling, one of my seminary classmates, only a few months out of Notre Dame, volunteered to storm a Chinese machine gun above his platoon of the 11th Marines. He silenced the gun and fell back among his comrades, dead.

That's what Marines are trained to do. They are not trained to be bait for terrorists. They do what they're told to do, of course, and try to live up to the ideals of the Corps. Yet, without excusing what happened, one must ask what in the world they were doing on patrol in western Iraq, where they would be an excellent target for an ambuscade, many of them on their third deployment to Iraq? Indeed, what are any Americans doing dodging roadside bombs in that country?

It will be said that they were defending American freedom. Doubtless they believed that they were. Yet there is no evidence that Iraq was ever a threat to American freedom. Or, it will be contended, they were fighting in the cause of democracy in Iraq. Anyone familiar with the disasters of the early 1920s when the English tried to civilize the new and artificial country (using poison gas, as Saddam Hussein did) will understand that democracy in that tribal society is a pipe dream.

In fact, they were there because the president of the United States "decided" that God wanted him to invade Iraq, and the defense secretary declared such an invasion would require only a small force -- less than half the size his military leaders said would be necessary -- and that there was no reason to provide an elaborate plan for the time after the war was over. So reservists, national guards and elite groups like the 11th Marines were deployed and redeployed and redeployed again, and 2,400 Americans (so far) died in a war that has turned out to be folly. We sank into the Big Muddy again.

I will leave to God the most merciful, the most compassionate, to decide about the moral guilt of Messrs. Bush and Rumsfeld. Doubtless they acted with good intentions and confidence that God was on their side. In the objective order, however, the only one we can know, they are in part responsible for the murders at Haditha. I doubt that they will be troubled by the TV clip of the young girl who hid under the bed while the Marines executed her family.

They will never be held to this responsibility. The buck no longer stops in the Oval Office, as it did in President Truman's day, or at the Pentagon. It stops with the young men who cracked under strain and their superiors who tried to cover it up. They will be punished and the leadership of the country will proclaim their own great virtue for serving justice. They will not ask themselves, nor will the country ask them, if they might be in part responsible for war crimes.

As for the cover-up, I am part of a group of men who covered up for abusive brother priests. In great part we deny responsibility for what our colleagues did, even though we knew about it or should have known about it. And our leaders, our commanding officers, if you will, still exercise their offices and still presume to prescribe proper morality for the laity.

No one is responsible anymore. For anything.

mailto:agreel@aol.com


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: andrewgreeley; haditha; iraq; leftybastard; phonypriest; terrorism; wot
So it sounds like Greeley isn't waiting for God - he already has judged all Americans as guilty.
1 posted on 06/02/2006 10:13:03 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
our Muslim brothers remind us,

You're just a dhimmi to them, Andrew.

2 posted on 06/02/2006 10:14:28 AM PDT by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: atomicpossum

Which is absolutely fine with Greeley.


3 posted on 06/02/2006 10:16:02 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (The MSM is "the propaganda arm of our enemies." - Jack Kelly)
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To: Chi-townChief
...2,400 Americans (so far) died in a war...

2,400 Americans died in a war?! Oh, my gawd! 2400! This is unprecedented! If an American dies, it's time to surrender. But 2,400?! This is the most horrendous, deadly war we have ever lost.

4 posted on 06/02/2006 10:20:53 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Build the fence. Sí, Se Puede!)
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To: Chi-townChief
What are the Marines doing in Iraq, much less riding in patrols down isolated, dusty desert roads?

Marines do a lot of things, Greeley you commie fool.

5 posted on 06/02/2006 10:22:24 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Build the fence. Sí, Se Puede!)
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To: Chi-townChief
So the moral guilt of the American Marines who apparently murdered perhaps two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, last November must be left to heaven.

What an incoherent statement.

6 posted on 06/02/2006 10:23:20 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Chi-townChief
What are the Marines doing in Iraq, much less riding in patrols down isolated, dusty desert roads? The Marines are an elite unit. They charge through Belleau Woods, they land on beaches at Tarawa, they climb Mount Suribachi on Iwo Jima and raise the American flag, they push toward the Yalu River in North Korea in the depth of winter cold and then, cut off from main American forces, "redeploy" from the Chosun Reservoir and out of the trap.

Apparently Mr. Greeley's view of Marine Corps history only encompasses major wars. The Marines have been involved in many insurrections, notably in the Caribbean in the twenties & thirties (Haiti, Nicaragua, etc). They performed duties much like the ones that Mr. Greeley finds distasteful.

The Marine Corps publishes a book called "The Small Wars Manual" which is recommended reading for all officers heading to Iraq.

7 posted on 06/02/2006 10:24:03 AM PDT by Tallguy (When it's a bet between reality and delusion, bet on reality -- Mark Steyn)
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To: Chi-townChief

"I will leave to God the most merciful, the most compassionate, to decide about the moral guilt of Messrs. Bush and Rumsfeld."

Very generous of His Holy Bag of Hot Air.


8 posted on 06/02/2006 10:26:54 AM PDT by olderwiser
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To: elhombrelibre

This guy is an asshat. Lets try a little reality. One, civilian casualties are a common biproduct of war. This war and all the popular wars we won and just read about too. The question is can the American public grow up enough to realize that no one in history ever fought and won the perfct war. There are a lot of tragedies in war, planned and unintentional. I will not judge my Marines until I have heard the evidence. But I will say this, even if these Marines did go crazy and shoot up the joint, is that I understand their mindset and can forgive them. I know this has happened in every war we, or anyone else has fought since recorded history. To the lefties who now believe WWII was the best war, for the right reasons, and the Americans who fought it were special (note: 25 years ago the lefties did not like even WWII vets) I know that there were many instances of prisoners being shot while attempting to surrender, there were rapes, and there were a whole lot of looting going on in Germany. My point is it is time that the American public grow up, realize this can and probably will happen again. Punish them if found guilty, but don't lie to me and yourself that it should never happen, it will happen. Also, if this is the standard that the left will hold an 18 year old Marine to, I want the same standard for our lovely misunderstood youth at home. The Marine provides me and you a value, the misunderstood youth is a cost.


9 posted on 06/02/2006 10:29:01 AM PDT by tigtog
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To: Chi-townChief
"That's what Marines are trained to do. They are not trained to be bait for terrorists. They do what they're told to do, of course, and try to live up to the ideals of the Corps. Yet, without excusing what happened, one must ask what in the world they were doing on patrol in western Iraq, where they would be an excellent target for an ambuscade, many of them on their third deployment to Iraq? Indeed, what are any Americans doing dodging roadside bombs in that country?"

His comparison to Korea is somewhat enlightening. In Korea, Truman had a strategy not to win the war. It was our first "limited war" or "police action" in which our military could not win, since we had restrictions on who and where we could attack. Also, most of the last two years of the involved a war to push the commies into negotiations. The military took hills with many casualties and then gave those same hills up later for political reasons. Remember Pork Chop Hill.

Now move ahead over 50 years later. We do have a strategy to win, not lose. However, there are insurgents and terrorist mixed in with civilians. That is a problem. They are loosing the war, except in the MSM in the USA.
Greeley's comparison is wrong, but not because Marines in Korea were killed by IEDs, they were killed because of a no win policy.
10 posted on 06/02/2006 10:29:56 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: olderwiser
"I will leave to God the most merciful, the most compassionate, to decide about the moral guilt of Messrs. Bush and Rumsfeld."

And I will leave to God the most merciful, the most compassionate, to decide the mental stupidity of Mr. Greely.

Nah! Why bother God with such an obvious fact. The guy's a jerk. There!

11 posted on 06/02/2006 10:31:44 AM PDT by bcsco ("He who is wedded to the spirit of the age is soon a widower" - Anonymous)
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To: wideawake

How many Americans were murdered on 9/11?? The MSM and whining Liberals don't remember or are chosing to forget.


12 posted on 06/02/2006 10:33:19 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: tigtog
If they snapped and did mass murder, there will be punishment meted out. That punishment will show that our policies, laws, and strategy are not in support of random murder. All that being said, if it happened as we've been led to believe [and I don't really know], it was not cold-blooded murder like Murtha says. It was more likely the actions of enraged and temporarily insane men. It's quite different than what Murtha says happened.
13 posted on 06/02/2006 10:34:21 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (The MSM is "the propaganda arm of our enemies." - Jack Kelly)
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To: ExTexasRedhead
Greeley doesn't care in the slightest.

What I find most tiresome is the continual reference to these deaths as "murders" by Marines when there is not even a whisper of a rumor of credible evidence to that effect.

14 posted on 06/02/2006 10:38:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: elhombrelibre

I agree. If it did happen that way it is what is know as a hot blooded crime. Remember, all Marine infantry training is to develop cold blooded killers (i.e., those that discriminate and purposely kill). This is after all our mission.


15 posted on 06/02/2006 10:39:03 AM PDT by tigtog
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To: Chi-townChief
Greeley did raise one, and only one, good question in this article: Are our tactics in Iraq appropriate for the mission?

If you assume that the Marines are innocent of wrongdoing and that they in fact have been set up by the citizens of Haditha and the insurgents, then why in God's name were they placed in a position where they could be so abused both by the Iraqis and then by our investigatory process? If you assume that the Marines in fact did what the media are accusing them of doing, then you must also ask yourself why they would have behaved in such a fashion. Haditha is not My Lai. The Marines of 2006 are not the conscript army of the 60's. They are not led by William Calley. They are highly trained volunteers. They are among America's best soldiers. If they did commit war crimes, did our tactics contribute to a breakdown in their discipline and honor?

These questions go to the heart of our mission in Iraq.

16 posted on 06/02/2006 10:42:01 AM PDT by p. henry
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To: Chi-townChief
God, our Muslim brothers remind us, is the merciful and the compassionate.

Well, yeah, they say that, Father. Unfortunately, a good number of them act as if Allah were more like the Calormen god Tash in C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia: the inexorable and the irresistible.

17 posted on 06/02/2006 10:42:52 AM PDT by RichInOC (The Great Mosque: Hog abbatoir, Hooters, synagogue, or smoldering radioactive hole in the ground?)
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To: Chi-townChief
God, our Muslim brothers remind us, is the merciful and the compassionate. There- fore, we do not make moral judgments on morality of others.

If only Muslims truly believed and lived this. But their actions show that the majority of them do NOT believe this.

Obviously, Greeley is an idiot.

18 posted on 06/02/2006 10:43:48 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Chi-townChief
So it sounds like Greeley isn't waiting for God - he already has judged all Americans as guilty.

I cannot help but wonder, even for a moment, if God is waiting for Greeley, or if Greeley has already been judged by Him.

19 posted on 06/02/2006 10:43:57 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

At least 2 were murdered by a muslim traitor in our ranks (Sgt. Akbar).


20 posted on 06/02/2006 11:02:34 AM PDT by weegee (Slowly but surely and deliberately, converativism is being made a thoughtcrime.)
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To: bcsco; olderwiser
''God Allah the most merciful, the most compassionate...''

There. Sounds better in the original, dunnit?

21 posted on 06/02/2006 11:11:18 AM PDT by Tenniel (Whenever a man casts a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct -- T. Jefferson)
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To: wideawake; sinkspur
As for the cover-up, I am part of a group of men who covered up for abusive brother priests.

Is Greeley offering up an admission of guilt here?

 

22 posted on 06/02/2006 11:14:20 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: Incorrigible
Greeley was on Donahue's old show back in the mid 80s, saying that when the number of priests who had abused minors was revealed, along with the number of bishops who covered for them, the Church in the US would be shaken.

He was right. And, yes, Greeley didn't blow the whistle on any of these guys, either, though he very well could have.

23 posted on 06/02/2006 11:28:50 AM PDT by sinkspur ( Don Cheech. Vito Corleone would like to meet you......Vito Corleone.....)
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To: Incorrigible
Of course not. He will claim that he was a voice crying in the wilderness on the issue.

If confronted for evidence to back up this claim, he will give you a B. Dalton coupon for remaindered copies of his romance novels.

24 posted on 06/02/2006 11:29:16 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Chi-townChief

>>>God, our Muslim brothers remind us, is the merciful and the compassionate<<<

Our Muslim 'brothers' also remind us, daily, that if we do not submit to the doctrine of the cult called Islam we will be killed by them, our Muslim 'brothers'.


25 posted on 06/02/2006 11:32:47 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Chi-townChief

New motto for Leftists--Semper Fickle


26 posted on 06/02/2006 11:46:37 AM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (Islam Schmislam blahblahblah, enough already!)
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To: tigtog

It's funny. The fires hadn't died in the the rubble of 9-11, before libs were making excuses for the terrorists, asking what we had done to cause such ill-will and hatred.

So let me ask--what did that community in Haditha do that might have led to Marines to react as they did? What did that rat's nest of Al-Qaida and Saddamists do?


27 posted on 06/02/2006 11:54:01 AM PDT by olderwiser
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To: olderwiser
Remember, America carries the new age white man's burden. Meaning, we have to act perfectly in an imperfect world, or we will be seen as hypocrits. I don't subscribe to this, but the media and every whining wantabe does. I am an objectivist. My question is can these 7th century retards progress enough to take advantage of the gift of liberty and decency delivered by the US to their doorstep. If the answer is yes, then great. If the answer is no, then we will be fighting a much larger and meaner and violent war with these chowder heads in 20 years time. As the Pulp Fiction quote goes, "I'm going get medieval on their ass."
28 posted on 06/02/2006 12:57:30 PM PDT by tigtog
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Therefore, we do not make moral judgments on morality of others.

We won't be judging you for all of that soft core porn you've churned out over the years or your failure to faithfully live up to your promise of celibacy, while you've been masquerading as a Priest, Andy. We'll leave the eternal state of your soul up to God, too.

29 posted on 06/02/2006 1:27:48 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: p. henry
The Marines of 2006 are not the conscript army of the 60's.

Points of fact: 2/3 of those who served in the Vietnam era were volunteers. 2/3 of those who served in WWII were draftees.

30 posted on 06/02/2006 1:35:54 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Jeff Chandler
2,400 Americans died in a war?! Oh, my gawd! 2400! This is unprecedented! If an American dies, it's time to surrender. But 2,400?! This is the most horrendous, deadly war we have ever lost.

b>This is the first war that we have liberated more territory and freed people, all the while lost fewer soldiers then what were killed on 9/11. This war is pure genius, but Bush is an absolute dimwit conveying this point, thus allowing liberals to trash the war and endangering our fighting men, and loosing the war for the hearts and minds at home!

31 posted on 06/02/2006 2:25:32 PM PDT by Bommer (Attention illegals: Why don't you do the jobs we can't do? Like fix your own countries problems!)
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To: Bommer

President Bush made the mistake of assuming that the American people are not children who have no sense of history. He was wrong.


32 posted on 06/03/2006 1:39:03 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Build the fence. Sí, Se Puede!)
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To: Chi-townChief

Have fun with that Greeley.


33 posted on 06/03/2006 1:43:50 AM PDT by Modok
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