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Ringling Bros. Battles to Keep Elephants (Fighting animal rights advocates)
The Las Vegas Sun ^ | June 3, 2006 | David Crary , AP

Posted on 06/03/2006 4:01:38 PM PDT by CedarDave

The Asian elephants used in the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus are at the heart of perhaps the most bitter animal-care fight around, one that's dragged through court for six years already and is inching toward a trial.

Its adversaries - a group including the Humane Society of the United States, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and the Animal Welfare Institute - argue vehemently that circus life is inherently cruel to the elephants.

They allege that the use of sharpened hooks by trainers, the routine use of chains, the separation of baby elephants from their mothers and other common circus practices add up to an egregious violation of the Endangered Species Act, which covers the Asian elephant and prohibits harm to it. The suit's goal is a court order halting these practices, which the activists believe would force Ringling to give up elephants altogether.

Ringling shows no signs of bowing to pressure, and has become more outspoken in defending itself since the first-of-its-kind suit was filed in 2000. "We train animals through reward, repetition and reinforcement - based on science," said former zookeeper Bruce Read, Ringling's vice president for animal stewardship. "Punishment is not used in the circus."

More generally, Read said circus life - including 50 weeks a year on the road - is not stressful to the elephants because the social groups around them, animal and human, are stable. He said young elephants aren't separated from their mothers until trainers are confident of their maturity.

"The Asian elephant has been semi-domesticated for centuries," said Read, citing its use in warfare, farming and various ceremonies. "Our circus brings them to areas where people don't see such animals very often. That's not something we should deprive our future generations of."

(Excerpt) Read more at lasvegassun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: animalrights; animalwhackos; circus; elephants; ringlingbros; workingdogs
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"Our circus brings them to areas where people don't see such animals very often. That's not something we should deprive our future generations of."
1 posted on 06/03/2006 4:01:40 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave

Ugh. I have never liked the circus. No more elephants. Kids can see them in nature preserves or now video , dvd's. the time is over for this travesty and cruelty!


2 posted on 06/03/2006 4:04:09 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: CedarDave

Yes, release them back into the wild where they will be promptly slaughtered.


3 posted on 06/03/2006 4:04:17 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: CedarDave

I don't think elephants versus animal rights activists is a fair fight, but it would be fun to watch.


4 posted on 06/03/2006 4:04:30 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
So you feel its OK for kids to only know these majestic
animals as only a picture, or a scene on a screen?

I have to disagree with you on this one. With all of the
permitting and inspections these animals get, they are
taken care of better than a Lib in NYC.
5 posted on 06/03/2006 4:08:25 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: CedarDave

Messed up my comment -- agree that it would be unfortunate for young and old to be deprived of seeing elephants up close. Heck, when we were children, we were given rides on their backs (don't think that's the case today due to liability issues).

What's crazy about the lawsuit is that RB's use of animals bred and raised in the US is being challenged because of loss of habitat overseas.


6 posted on 06/03/2006 4:08:48 PM PDT by CedarDave (Sleeper trolls are like cicadas - emerge in the heat and contribute nothing but loud annoying noise)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Need to bring your own see through covering for when one of the greenies gets smashed, and a fully stocked cooler.
:)
7 posted on 06/03/2006 4:09:02 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: CedarDave

I'm okay with them keeping the elephants but can they please get rid of the clowns?


8 posted on 06/03/2006 4:09:27 PM PDT by Mercat (He's everywhere you are.)
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To: Mercat
.....but can they please get rid of the clowns?

I know, they are scary as heck......8^D

9 posted on 06/03/2006 4:11:27 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: kinoxi

Kind of like a Gallagher show?


10 posted on 06/03/2006 4:12:59 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Ugh. I have never liked the circus. No more elephants. Kids can see them in nature preserves or now video , dvd's. the time is over for this travesty and cruelty!

Still working on that recovery, eh?

11 posted on 06/03/2006 4:15:08 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: kinoxi
Yes, release them back into the wild where they will be promptly slaughtered.

A couple of additional facts that I did not include in the excerpt:

It would seem they have a better life at the breeding facility than on the Asian subcontinent where competition for land between man and elephants ends up with the elephant as the loser.

12 posted on 06/03/2006 4:15:23 PM PDT by CedarDave (Sleeper trolls are like cicadas - emerge in the heat and contribute nothing but loud annoying noise)
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To: Mercat
I'm okay with them keeping the elephants but can they please get rid of the clowns?

Yeah, we see enough of them in Washington...

13 posted on 06/03/2006 4:16:22 PM PDT by CedarDave (Sleeper trolls are like cicadas - emerge in the heat and contribute nothing but loud annoying noise)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Yeah, except the actual fruit is replaced with 'virtual fruit' ...the lefties, and the mallet is replaced by a pachyderm's pissed off hoof.
:)
14 posted on 06/03/2006 4:16:32 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: CedarDave
Heck, when we were children, we were given rides on their backs (don't think that's the case today due to liability issues).

About 8 years ago, my daughter and I got a ride on an elephant at a small circus in Florida (she needed daddy to ride with her)

15 posted on 06/03/2006 4:16:48 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: CedarDave

Gawd ... what's next? No clowns?


16 posted on 06/03/2006 4:17:17 PM PDT by sono ("Why can't we deport them? Mexico did." J Leno)
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To: Mercat
...but can they please get rid of the clowns?

As long as the limousine Liberals continue funding them, we'll never get rid of the Humane Society of the United States, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and the Animal Welfare Institute.

Next up in the "court" barrel. Rodeos!

17 posted on 06/03/2006 4:17:30 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (DemocRATS! America's Lynch Mob.)
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To: CedarDave

This is a perfect example of how these activist groups are using the courts to destroy our traditions, restrict our freedoms, and generally turn America into a tepid bowl of mush.


18 posted on 06/03/2006 4:18:36 PM PDT by rbg81 (1)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

I can only wonder whether clowns are an ancient tradition of devil worship, seriously - clowns in some cultures represent a portal to the world of the dead. People like to turn what they fear into something to ridicule. I think that it is this human impulse which has created clowns and which makes them so scary... sort of a reverse scary.


19 posted on 06/03/2006 4:18:55 PM PDT by Mercat (He's everywhere you are.)
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To: Mercat

I’m with you on this one. Clowns freak me out man. Never trust someone wearing a painted on smile. Don’t care much for mimes or monkeys either.


20 posted on 06/03/2006 4:22:18 PM PDT by Caramelgal (I don't have a tag line.... I am a tag line. So tag, you are it.)
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To: CedarDave
Center for Elephant Conservation
21 posted on 06/03/2006 4:22:21 PM PDT by CedarDave (Sleeper trolls are like cicadas - emerge in the heat and contribute nothing but loud annoying noise)
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To: Mercat

I took my grand daughter to the local circus, and wanted
her to pose for pictures with the clowns. She was terrified
of them. Even the women clowns scared the heck out of her.

I think it might have been all the make up. Not sure just a guess.


22 posted on 06/03/2006 4:22:35 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: Caramelgal

"Don’t care much for mimes or monkeys either." Mimes are clowns and yes monkeys are disturbing.


23 posted on 06/03/2006 4:25:32 PM PDT by Mercat (He's everywhere you are.)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

women clowns??? oh my gosh. way back when I was going to circuses, there were no women clowns. That would be much much scarier.


24 posted on 06/03/2006 4:26:25 PM PDT by Mercat (He's everywhere you are.)
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To: CedarDave

Mabel - Born April 6, 2006


25 posted on 06/03/2006 4:27:01 PM PDT by CedarDave (Sleeper trolls are like cicadas - emerge in the heat and contribute nothing but loud annoying noise)
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To: Caramelgal
How about this clown?? Sheeesh, creeeeepy


26 posted on 06/03/2006 4:29:19 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: LasVegasMac

Wow. That was such a brilliant response. DUH.

How lame...those that respond to my Freepr name as if that were a response to a comment.

I suppose I should then respond to any comment you make with " What can you expect from someone in Vegas? "


27 posted on 06/03/2006 4:31:46 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: Mercat
In order for me to take this picture, I had to bribe her
with Ice Cream, Hot Dogs, and other treats. Pretty expensive picture.


28 posted on 06/03/2006 4:33:27 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

dude... like peace man... / heavy sarcasm


29 posted on 06/03/2006 4:34:31 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: CedarDave

Awwwww!


30 posted on 06/03/2006 4:35:12 PM PDT by proudofthesouth (Mao said that power comes at the point of a rifle; I say FREEDOM does.)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

The fact is they are NOT taken care of well.

Animals that are in more natural habitats, such as Busch Gardens in Tampa, FL are very well taken care of and children can see them live and very up close. If you will read my post...I did not limit the children to DVD's/ there are more zoos now than ever before that now make the elephant quarters more condusive to their natural setting.

Perhaps I feel that we have a duty to also teach our children to respect animals as God's creatures.


31 posted on 06/03/2006 4:35:56 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

In order for me to take this picture, I had to bribe her
with Ice Cream, Hot Dogs, and other treats. Pretty expensive picture.


Smart Kid!


32 posted on 06/03/2006 4:36:37 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (_/)
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To: kinoxi

LOL!


33 posted on 06/03/2006 4:37:05 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: ThreePuttinDude
That's not a clown. That's one of the Kennedys.
34 posted on 06/03/2006 4:38:48 PM PDT by OSHA (All the threads I'm pinged to end up in Chat.)
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To: Mercat

More kids are frightened by clowns than by elephnts.


35 posted on 06/03/2006 4:44:13 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: rbg81
I work in the industry...an extension of it anyway. I am a showman. I own and operate "America's Smallest Travelling Museum.

MY banners scream "See the Strange Thing" I work the west coast---I can tell you that pc has run amok. I am in the last generation of showmen and show-women. After centuries of history, our lot is being slowly outlawed by one regulation or another.

I educate, entertain and fascinate, all for a single dollar. But, the resistence I have by some fairs is incredible and defies logic.

By definition, I am sideshow. On the west coast sideshow has all but disappeared over the last 30 years. There are only a couple of big shows left, Ward Hall and his World of Wonders and Bobby Reynolds and by extension, John Strong Jr.

The powers that be and the do-gooders do not realize who their customer base is--what folks want to see and do. What I do is no different that what Ripley did back in the 30s, although on a smaller scale.

The elephants and Ringling Bros....Its all part of the same effort to stamp us out for good. To santitize and control us. We are the last of a wandering tribe of showfolk that has had a long and proud line of tradition dating back eons--and in the end it will be regulated out of existence.

This lawsuit is just one of many acts in recent years. In one state attemtpts were to outlaw exotic snake/animal shows and relagate such view to the local museum or zoo... (MA, I think).

Years ago an old carnival operator told me: "If they still didn;t think we bit the heads off of snakes, they wouldn't come." He was right then and he is right today. Folks want a little brush with danger, the unseemly, the odd and the bizzare.

My museum works today, even in the day and age of modern media and the flow of information. Folks want to see a crypto-zoological wonder--they want "To become a witness to the unkown, right before their eyes."

I hope Ringling wins the lawsuit and marches those elephants right on down to the courthouse--Imagine, putting the Circus on trial--kinda like putting Santa Claus on trial... Prof. J.M. Reid America's Smallest Travelling Museum/See The Strange Thing

36 posted on 06/03/2006 4:50:39 PM PDT by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing"--only a thin dollar, babies free!)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

Yep - really creepy. Kinda proves my point doesn’t it.

I think Steven King's It also contributed to my dislike of clowns. That and those really bad paintings, you know the ones.

And I never liked monkeys after the Wizzard of OZ… and I have nightmares about tornadoes to boot.

I think I have issues.
.


37 posted on 06/03/2006 4:51:43 PM PDT by Caramelgal (I don't have a tag line.... I am a tag line. So tag, you are it.)
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To: Caramelgal

WHOA, somebody must have scared the heck out of you when you were a kid....8^)


38 posted on 06/03/2006 4:54:15 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude ()....no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself...... ()
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To: ThreePuttinDude

I say turn them over to PETA. Oops I forgot they will just be killed and dumped in the garbage.


39 posted on 06/03/2006 5:12:48 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
How lame...those that respond to my Freepr name as if that were a response to a comment.

Too appropriate to ignore. DUH!

" What can you expect from someone in Vegas? "

We like to see elephants when we go to a circus - ?

Just for the record, you are not including our Area 51 aliens (they don't have papers) in your tag line comment, are you?

40 posted on 06/03/2006 5:13:37 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

"Animals that are in more natural habitats, such as Busch Gardens in Tampa, FL are very well taken care of and children can see them live and very up close"

Of course the eco freaks are campaigning world wide to prohibit the keeping of elephants in facilities like Busch Gardens. Thats the next step.


41 posted on 06/03/2006 5:15:14 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: abigkahuna

"Its all part of the same effort to stamp us out for good. To santitize and control us."

Dont feel isolated. Their goal is to santitize and controll all of us.


42 posted on 06/03/2006 5:17:25 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: abigkahuna

I think America will really lose something if circuses and carnivals are forced out of business by the Animal/Safety Nazis. So much for live and let live. Best of luck to you Sir--I always respect people who strive to make the world a more interesting place (in a good way).


43 posted on 06/03/2006 5:24:25 PM PDT by rbg81 (1)
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To: CedarDave

Maybe the circus can suggest to the crazies that if they can't use the elephants in the show they'll just have to kill them and eat them.


44 posted on 06/03/2006 5:25:48 PM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Oh for heavens' sake, will you please whine about something important and not attack the circus.


45 posted on 06/03/2006 5:29:10 PM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: driftdiver

I don't agree with that...but there are ways to be respectful and humane with animals, yet not go to extremes.


46 posted on 06/03/2006 6:18:20 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: OldFriend

There are a lot of things I have an opinion about...this is one of them. I don't like the circus, never have. Not every thing is life and death..yet may still be important.

For me , treating animals with respect and as humaely as possible is what compassioate human beings are responsible to do. I would want to pass these values on to our children also.


47 posted on 06/03/2006 6:21:46 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Illegal Aliens....STFU!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

"but there are ways to be respectful and humane with animals, yet not go to extremes."

Sure there are, but as always the devil is in the details. Define extreme.

The eco/animal freaks insist that anything not natural is extreme. These folks want to return vast tracts of the world to "nature" and prohibit any human use of those areas.


48 posted on 06/03/2006 6:54:46 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: CedarDave
Gees!! Now they're after the Circus,What next, God please someone rid us of these ba$turds.
49 posted on 06/03/2006 6:58:27 PM PDT by lonedawg (why does that rag on your head say holiday inn?)
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To: LasVegasMac; Recovering Ex-hippie

Good one. Liberals. . .it's always all about them.


50 posted on 06/03/2006 7:10:45 PM PDT by jokar (for it is by grace, http://www.gbible.org)
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