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The Silence Of God (God Did Not Build Auschwitz; Man Did. Free Will Alert)
Townhall.com ^ | 05/05/06 | Jeff Jacoby

Posted on 06/04/2006 11:02:13 PM PDT by goldstategop

"Where was God in those days?" asked Pope Benedict XVI as he stood in Auschwitz last week. "Why was he silent? How could he permit this endless slaughter, this triumph of evil?"

It is the inevitable question in Auschwitz, that vast factory of death where the Nazis tortured, starved, shot, and gassed to death as many as a million and a half innocent human beings, most of them Jews. "In a place like this, words fail," Benedict said. "In the end, there can be only a dread silence, a silence which itself is a heartfelt cry to God: Why, Lord, did *you* remain silent?"

News reports emphasized the pope's question. Every story noted that the man who voiced it was, as he put it, "a son of the German people." No one missed the intense historical significance of a German pope, on a pilgrimage to Poland, beseeching God for answers at the slaughterhouse where just 60 years ago Germans broke every record for shedding Jewish blood.

And yet some commentators accused Benedict of skirting the issue of anti-Semitism. The national director of the Anti-Defamation League said that the pope had "uttered not one word about anti-Semitism; not one explicit acknowledgment of Jewish lives vanquished simply because they were Jews." The National Catholic Register likewise reported that he "did not make any reference to modern anti-Semitism."

In truth, the pope not only acknowledged the reality of Jew-hatred, he explained the pathology that underlies it. Anti-Semites are driven by hostility not just toward Jews, he said, but toward the message of God-based ethics they first brought to the world.

"Deep down, those vicious criminals" -- he was speaking of Hitler and his followers -- "by wiping out this people, wanted to kill the God who called Abraham, who spoke on Sinai and laid down principles to serve as a guide for mankind, principles that are eternally valid. If this people, by its very existence, was a witness to the God who spoke to humanity and took us to himself, then that God finally had to die and power had to belong to man alone -- to those men, who thought that by force they had made themselves masters of the world."

The Nazis' ultimate goal, Benedict argued, was to rip out Christian morality by its Jewish roots, replacing it with "a faith of their own invention: faith in the rule of man, the rule of the powerful." Hitler knew that his will to power could triumph only if he first destroyed Judeo-Christian values. In the Thousand-Year Reich, God and his moral code would be wiped out. Man, unencumbered by conscience, would reign in his place. It is the oldest of temptations, and Auschwitz is what it leads to.

"Where was God in those days?" asked the pope. How could a just and loving Creator have allowed trainload after trainload of human beings to be murdered at Auschwitz? But why ask such a question only in Auschwitz? Where, after all, was God in the Gulag? Where was God when the Khmer Rouge slaughtered 1.7 million Cambodians? Where was God during the Armenian holocaust? Where was God in Rwanda? Where is God in Darfur?

For that matter, where is God when even one innocent victim is being murdered or raped or abused?

The answer, though the pope didn't say so clearly, is that a world in which God always intervened to prevent cruelty and violence would be a world without freedom -- and life without freedom would be meaningless. God endows human beings with the power to choose between good and evil. Some choose to help their neighbor; others choose to hurt him. There were those in Nazi Europe who herded Jews into gas chambers. And there were those who risked their lives to hide Jews from the Gestapo.

The God "who spoke on Sinai" was not addressing himself to angels or robots who could do no wrong even if they wanted to. He was speaking to real people with real choices to make, and real consequences that flow from those choices. Auschwitz wasn't God's fault. He didn't build the place. And only by changing those who did build it from free moral agents into puppets could he have stopped them from committing their horrific crimes.

It was not God who failed during the Holocaust or in the Gulag, or on 9/11, or in Bosnia. It is not God who fails when human beings do barbaric things to other human beings. Auschwitz is not what happens when the God who says "Thou shalt not murder" and "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" is silent. It is what happens when men and women refuse to listen.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: auschwitz; christianity; freewill; germany; god; goodandevil; jeffjacoby; judaism; nazism; poland; popebenedict; theodicy; townhall
The answer to the Pope's question is it wasn't God who built Auschwitz; it was Man. Human beings are endowed with free will to choose between good and evil. The same faculty that gave us a Pope Benedict also gave us an Adolf Hitler. We have it within us to choose life or to choose death. Those words are in front of us, written right in the Torah. And we do not need to go up to Heaven to learn how to serve God and love our fellow men and women and refrain from doing evil. We can do otherwise but the consequences will be severe for us. And in our exalted free will we are raised above the beasts but are not meant to be like them but are destined for greater things. Let us take the time to listen.
1 posted on 06/04/2006 11:02:20 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
Man made Auschwitz and man ended Auschwitz. God has given us his divine wisdom it is ours to heed or ignore. We shall do good or evil in this world, we shall be saved or go into the darkness all is ultimately up to us. We all however when we perish from this earth must answer for the deeds we have done. Life is a buffett we get to eat, but ultimately we have to settle up the bill and there is no skipping out on it.
2 posted on 06/04/2006 11:11:47 PM PDT by spikeytx86 (Pray for Democrats for they have been brainwashed by there fruity little club.)
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To: spikeytx86

That's why thankfully we have that small voice within us. The description in the Elijah theophany in the Bible is remarkable for conveying to us we truly hear God when we stop to listen to the conscience implanted within us that commands us to continue on the strait and narrow path in this life. That is the greatest gift God has given Man and there are the few in whom it is void and they are evil and should be put down without mercy so the world can endure.


3 posted on 06/04/2006 11:16:59 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

good post, although, in my opinion, the conscience is not implanted, there are some, sociopaths, whom do not have a conscience. It has a preordained , or vestige to make a conscience possible, if and when it is developed. What happened at Auchwitz and other places, to me, since evil has no bounds, is a result of the devil and his legions being able to ursurp the power of undeveloped consciences. ? word games, perhaps, but, to me, mercy is in the judgement of God, as to your statement of no mercy, but I know what you mean, emotions prevail over justice, but watchout, as emotions prevailed then, or rather through the written word of Langbehn and LeGarde, who convinced the northern German, the Volk, who were into New Age sort of religion anyway, their minds were led to believe certain things.


4 posted on 06/04/2006 11:53:19 PM PDT by Keisha
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To: Keisha

There are a few people, the Children Of Darkness, the sociopaths in whom it is missing or deficient. The Bible knew their kind and that's why it extorts evil-doers to be dealt with harshly. Its too bad we've gotten soft to the point that we're soliticious of murderers' tender psyches. No, my dear friend, if they are not put to death promptly, more innocent people will die. The only way to defeat evil is to destroy evil people wherever they exist.


5 posted on 06/04/2006 11:57:30 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: spikeytx86

I am German on my fathers side, and wondered why at the age of almost 60, I will still, at times, catch myself saying, "I am a stubborn, authoritative person, the only thing wrong with that is I am always right!" egad, where did that come from? looks like alot of Germans had the same idea over there back then, is this kind of false pride in our genes or something? The Pope feels incriminated, a doer of this evil because he is German and was in the Youth movement then for awhile, he is human, and did not have on his mind what people wanted to hear from him at that time, he had human , internal feelings, wound up over decades. If you are not German you don't know what I mean, sorry, but I am convinced that the Huns, Saxons, Vandals and other ancient tribes , left some of their barbarism in generations to follow, through the dna.


6 posted on 06/05/2006 12:01:04 AM PDT by Keisha
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To: Keisha

I am German through my mother's side. My father's side was Romanian Jewish. The way I see it, is we're all responsible for our own behavior. Our parents' past does not follow us nor do our actions as children reflect upon our parents. The question of what kind of life a person leads is a matter of individual choice - and at that, a freely willed choice.


7 posted on 06/05/2006 12:06:14 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
Interesting post. Ages old questions. In keeping with the theme I could add "Why didn't God save his only begotten son from the cross?"

Personally, I think what was done to Jesus, tells us all we need to know about human nature. Let me be clear- I'm not saying anything about the Jews. As I read the story, several groups of people could have stopped Jesus's crucifixion, but didn't. Starting with Judas- who was Jesus's own disciple. The Romans could have stopped it, the people in the crowd could have stopped it- but nobody did. Of course, it had to happen that way to save us from ourselves.

The Nazi's had no God . As the Bible says: Without God, we are nothing. They (Nazi's)did terrible things. But with all due respect to the Pope- the people in the Concentration camps were set free. We had to go to war to do it, with great loss of life, but it was done. What gave "the Greatest Generation" the courage to go to war and make such heroic sacrifices? Also from what I've read of the history of WWII- there were times when we were only one step ahead of the Nazi's- in fact at the beginning of the war- we were losing. There were certain key events that HAD to go our way, or we would have lost. (Where did the liberals or anyone get the idea of an "easy war"?) I believe that God must have been helping us out back then.

Maybe it goes back to Genesis, when man was first tossed out of the Garden of Eden- we have to toil here, in this fallen place, and try to make something of it. We have knowledge of Good and Evil so we have the responsibility to to use this knowledge to give glory to God or to use it for evil. This place is sort of a neutral ground, and the battle between good and evil goes on continuously, in major and minor ways.(I seem to have said what you said- but with much less eloquence.)

Off subject, but, same theme- I've gone to Church on many Sundays where we pray for the troops in Iraq-which is great, and necessary- but, I'd like to hear more of people praying FOR THE SUCCESS OF THE MISSION IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN too. (just my two-cents)

8 posted on 06/05/2006 12:13:36 AM PDT by Pajamajan (Benedict Arnold and John Murtha served in the US military.)
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To: goldstategop

A bit of blame shifting by the Pope. Why did the current Pope help to smuggle Nazi officers out of Germany after WWII. He needs to take his own inventory and not God's...


9 posted on 06/05/2006 12:20:54 AM PDT by trailboss800
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To: trailboss800

Here is a very good piece that speaks to some things that actually went on with the Vatican and Pope Pius XII during WW2.

http://piusxii.hismercy.ca/index.html


10 posted on 06/05/2006 2:30:43 AM PDT by Mila
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To: trailboss800

Oops! On rereading your post I see that you are referring to Pope Benedict. I have never heard any of those stories. Do you have a link? Thanks.


11 posted on 06/05/2006 2:32:58 AM PDT by Mila
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To: goldstategop

bookmark


12 posted on 06/05/2006 2:44:00 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: trailboss800

Sounds like you have evidence that the pope was part of ODESSA. I'd be interested to see the facts, can you direct me to them please? thank you.


13 posted on 06/05/2006 2:53:11 AM PDT by RushLake (I neutered my dog, now he's a liberal.)
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To: RushLake

The Nazis' ultimate goal, Benedict argued, was to rip out Christian morality by its Jewish roots, replacing it with "a faith of their own invention: faith in the rule of man, the rule of the powerful." Hitler knew that his will to power could triumph only if he first destroyed Judeo-Christian values. In the Thousand-Year Reich, God and his moral code would be wiped out. Man, unencumbered by conscience, would reign in his place. It is the oldest of temptations, and Auschwitz is what it leads to.

Sounds like the Democrat party


14 posted on 06/05/2006 3:58:38 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: goldstategop

bump


15 posted on 06/05/2006 4:12:23 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I face pressure! You face pressure!)
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To: goldstategop; All
Personally, I'd like to accept the 'God allows us to have free will' theodicy because it suits my understanding of why people do bad things to each other. But then i cannot grapple with the fact the bad things also happen to people that other people could not possible be responsible for, such as natural disasters. Is God trying to test our faiths when/where applicable? Did He just set the Earth in motion with its physical & biological laws and then step back vowing to have minimal interference or none at all [none at all would invalidate some biblical accounts of intervention]? Is the 'good and the bad' all subjective and not properly placed in the divine context [this explanation sort of contradicts the 'testing our faiths' question...or does it?]?

Or could it be that I'm making the fundamental mistake of trying to comprehend God's actions/inactions by trying to think of Him through the lens of a mere human's understanding? Yes, I believe that's it.

16 posted on 06/05/2006 4:23:32 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: Pajamajan
"Interesting post. Ages old questions. In keeping with the theme I could add "Why didn't God save his only begotten son from the cross?"

Christ as the final perfect sacrificial lamb was preordained, were it to have been prevented "save" would have been the Heavenly Father withdrawing his promised gift of salvation from all His children.

WWII did not happen in a vacuum there is a historical record that laid the foundation to follow how it was that a nation would follow a lunatic (Hitler) into the bowels of depravity.

I am of German decent my great-grandfather came to this nation as a stowaway in the late 1800's. He is a mystery, finding verification that his name here was in fact the name given to him at birth is like searching in a black hole.
17 posted on 06/05/2006 4:33:35 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Christ as the final perfect sacrificial lamb was preordained, were it to have been prevented...

I believe it was preordained, too. However, this also implies that those on Earth whom history regards as responsible for Jesus' death, were not really responsible for His death at all since it was meant to happen the way that it happened.

18 posted on 06/05/2006 4:41:22 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: LowCountryJoe
I don't presume to say that I know the will of god, but I do know something about math and from that perspective it's fairly easy to see how circumstances which may seem abhorrent to us at the time might actually be the least bad choice for an omniscient being.
When your beautiful 6 year old falls off the couch leaving a small scar on her otherwise perfect chin, it may seem horrible, but if fear of that moment keeps her away from the cliff edge at that moment when the rocks give way, saving her life, well then it was a small price to pay.
Civilizations are like that too. So long as we approach our relationship with God from a position of humility, and do our best to embrace his laws as our own, everything will work out in the end.
It's only when we believe that we are greater than god that our arrogance can lead to evil. When we allow our collective morality to be based on the feelings of each individual, the result is perdition. It's times like that which lead to what happened in the camps. Those who do evil, almost never know it... they believe in their heart that they are being just. But since they have abandoned god, they have only their ego to look to...only that arrogance to look for the rules... and that is the root of all sin.
19 posted on 06/05/2006 4:42:58 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: Just mythoughts
WWII did not happen in a vacuum there is a historical record that laid the foundation to follow how it was that a nation would follow a lunatic (Hitler) into the bowels of depravity.

Chiefly, the hyper-inflation that occurred within the German economy after their nation was found [by the victorious alliance of nations] to be responsible for the destruction from WWI and made to pay reparations for that destruction.

20 posted on 06/05/2006 4:45:24 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: goldstategop
The pro-socialist slant/bias/favoritism/politics of the modern liberal (be they liberal NY Jews or any other "intellackuals") is shown by the question: The writer never brings up the millions MORE killed under Communist regimes (Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, NVM, NK) and their socialist influenced countries and "liberated" areas: Sudan, Ethiopia, etc.

The hundreds of millions killed by socialists simply CANNOT be condemned by a liberal.

The tens of millions murdered by liberal abortionists CANNOT be mentioned either.
21 posted on 06/05/2006 4:50:23 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: LowCountryJoe

Yes indeed. WWI was not initiated by Germany, although they did end up being the considered historical 'evil', and those of the group of nations planted the seedbed of what then followed. NOT an excuse for what happened but WWII cannot be discussed or described without the previous 2 + decades being part of the discussion.


22 posted on 06/05/2006 4:54:14 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: goldstategop
"Why was he silent?

This same question can be asked of the Pope during WW II.

23 posted on 06/05/2006 5:47:42 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: goldstategop

A simplistic perspective.

In studying Scriptural perspectives on good and evil, there are two types of good: human good and divine good. Human good in even the best of conditions is temporary and only lasts maybe several years to a century. Divine good has eternal consequence. Divine good is recognized in heaven. Human good is merely parlayed into evil by HaSatan in his attempt to counterfeit perfect environment.


24 posted on 06/05/2006 5:56:41 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: LowCountryJoe

None of the biblical miracles violate free will or the laws of nature. In a fallen world, Man's responsibility is to perfect it in partnership with God. The world has never been a paradise. One day it will become that and more but only if we are worthy of it. Then too, the Messiah will come.


25 posted on 06/05/2006 6:03:00 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Cvengr

God creates both good and evil. Evil in its positive form, is God being a strict judge. The world would not long endure if it had only justice so mercy became its handmaiden. This is the good side of God as a loving parent, concerned with but never indifferent to human welfare. We need both qualities to overcome our limitations just as God and the laws of nature assure that chaos will never overwhelm the ordained order that ensures the world will continue to exist. Maybe the next world will be perfect; but as long as we are mortal, we can see only part of the picture in front of us - never the whole of it.


26 posted on 06/05/2006 6:08:29 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Good and evil are issues of morality. Satan has a policy of evil in counterfeiting God's plans in an effort to substitute himself for God and also in an attempt to overturn the immutable judgment of God.

Evil in the since of chaos was created by God, but not all good and evil is God breathed. On the contrary, most good and evil works made by man are counterfeit to His plan and will. Accordingly, they will simply be burned up upon divine judgment.

The words for good in reference to mercy might be better translated as 'kind'. His judgment is perfect. His Holiness is composed of His perfect Righteousness and His Perfect Judgment. Wherever He encounters unrighteousness, His perfect righeousness demands perfect judgment.


27 posted on 06/05/2006 6:29:39 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr

There are no dualistic powers. There is only One God and all flows from Him. Then again, we humans cannot see all His mysteries. We do not know why there is suffering and hardship and cruelty in the world. We can alleviate it with kindness and a helping hand and with love. We can mitigate the evils of nature but with the evils of Man we have to master our own passions. It is the only way to bring the world we dream of into being. And only then will God complete it through us and with us.


28 posted on 06/05/2006 6:37:08 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Keisha
I have a tiny bit of German in me but not much to really speak of. Though the acts of Nazi Germany during the war were horrific (that is an understatement) there was nothing unique about the Germans that made them do it. Since then many races and nations have done horrible appalling things like the former soviet union, several African nations, several Balkan nations, several Latin American nations, and even some whack jobs here in the states.

And I too am a stubborn son of a gun at times and can be quite the control freak, however I doubt you or me has committed a genocide recently. What our parents and our ancestors have done dose not reflect on us or make us guilty of there crimes. My ancestors may or may not of owned slaves, but if they did that dose not make me guilty nor dose it make me want to own a slave. I have to find my own path in life and make my own decisions and live with my own failures and successes as do my eventual children. Society can not advance if the entire world is self conscious and forever trying to pay off a debt that is not there's to begin with when they should be advancing society and improving it for the next generation.
29 posted on 06/05/2006 7:04:29 AM PDT by spikeytx86 (Pray for Democrats for they have been brainwashed by there fruity little club.)
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To: goldstategop
Where was God in those days?

To stop all evil, God would have to kill us all. We live under grace.

30 posted on 06/05/2006 7:06:00 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: goldstategop
Can anyone here recommend a book or books of positive things that happened in those camps. I remember, quite sometime ago a person telling me about the Christians who were held in those prisons and how they saw the hand of God work in their behalf as well as some of the Jewish folk those Christians befriended. Sure would love to read the good that came out of that horrific evil event in history. Words do fail, why were WE silent...:(
31 posted on 06/05/2006 7:09:04 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: goldstategop

Thanks for posting this and for the fascinating discussion!


32 posted on 06/05/2006 7:13:16 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (My memory's not as good as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as good as it used to be.)
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To: LowCountryJoe

I have always dealt with that issue in this way:

To have the chance for growth, we have to live in a universe where change does happen.

Change is not always good.

Yet even the horrid things that happen allow humans to act in the very best way, by reaching out.

In very real ways, we have the poor, the needy, the injured, the unlovely in part so that we can be those who reach out, and be those who are in need.

None of this could happen in a static universe.

For some people, the fact that bad things happen to good people is evidence that either there is no God or that God is not loving.

The answer God gave Job is "When you can see things with my wisdom, then I'll explain it to you." Or, put in another, ruder way, "This is the way I set it up. Deal with it."

And our choices are simple. We can curse God and die, or grow into the people we wants us to be.

Auschwitz is an example of Man spitting at God. The tsunami is an example of a world where things are not static.

We have the freedom, because of the way the universe is created, to respond to both of them, in whichever way we choose.


33 posted on 06/05/2006 7:24:27 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: GingisK

Which Pope ?


34 posted on 06/05/2006 7:31:45 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: goldstategop

"Where was God in those days?" asked Pope Benedict XVI as he stood in Auschwitz last week.

Well HE was one of the Hitler Youth, NOT me.


35 posted on 06/05/2006 8:22:19 AM PDT by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: aimhigh

EXCELLENT COMMENT!~


36 posted on 06/05/2006 8:23:10 AM PDT by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: trailboss800
Why did the current Pope help to smuggle Nazi officers out of Germany after WWII.

I hope for the sake of your credibility and character that you can prove he actually did that.

37 posted on 06/05/2006 8:25:22 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: GingisK
This same question can be asked of the Pope during WW II.

Oooh, more potshots at the Vatican. Perhaps Pius XII was a little busy saving 860,000 Jews from sonderbehandlung in the death camps.

38 posted on 06/05/2006 8:28:22 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: goldstategop
It was not God who failed during the Holocaust or in the Gulag, or on 9/11, or in Bosnia. It is not God who fails when human beings do barbaric things to other human beings. Auschwitz is not what happens when the God who says "Thou shalt not murder" and "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" is silent. It is what happens when men and women refuse to listen.

A big AMEN to that!

39 posted on 06/05/2006 8:34:55 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: LowCountryJoe

I remember reading a bit about biblical mythology in relation to this. In Revelations, there is a passage that an angel eats a scroll that tastes sweet but is bitter when swallowed. This scroll is the title deed to the earth and whoever posesses it is able to control the events on earth. Adam was first given it and paradise resulted. But then Adam fell into temptation with Eve and as a result Satan was given the title deed. Now, Satan is also known as "The Prince and Power of the Air." This makes sense since the majority of the worst natural disasters are tornados and hurricanes, of which Satan might cause them. Now admittedly God has helped at times, but only in extreme situations (slavery of the Jews in Egypt, Sodom and Gammorah, Noah, etc.)but ultimately Satan has been given the majority of control and influence.


40 posted on 06/05/2006 8:37:14 AM PDT by Niuhuru
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To: Pajamajan
But with all due respect to the Pope- the people in the Concentration camps were set free.

The Pope wasn't talking about them or their liberators. He was talking about those who died in those camps, at the hands of men who were too full of themselves, thus having no room left for God.

41 posted on 06/05/2006 8:37:40 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: spikeytx86

Spikeytx86, good post, none of what you say I have trouble with, taken from your point of view, which is possible, however, the circumstantial situations of conditioning, I believe , have alot to do with behavior of groups. WWl ended with the Germans having to pay a high price, people were starving, farms foreclosed, things were a mess, and the Northern Volk were being conditioned through their already propensity for witchcraft, pagan ideals , crystals etc., that two writers used by Hitler to galvanize , by persuasion , the support he needed to become , in 1934, a power broker in the Hindenberg govm't . My father was 100% German, and I remember the differences in the social customs with his family, my German aunts were aggressive in most things, as the German woman from the earliest times were women who went out and fought, right along side their mate,....boisterous , and loud, persistent, were they , and I , the same way, so much so , that the doctors , after I recovering from a head injury, coma etc.. said that the reason I threw myself out of the wheelchair, got from nothing to something, was the dna, the genes made the difference, and to me, there is a difference, perhaps my Norwegian cousin could have accomplished what I did, but I highly doubt it. It took dogged persistence and roughhardiness, and as a survivor, I felt I was in a war most of the time. I ended up graduating from the UofMinn with a 3.6GPA. As a woman , similiarities of the stereotypical German, northern woman , are many.........like I said , evil has no bounds, that is why many different nationalities have had their own evil, however, the German one is ,to me, particularly its own evil. nevertheless, I will go have some coffee and think about your post, thanks, Keisha


42 posted on 06/06/2006 4:38:50 AM PDT by Keisha
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To: Keisha

I hate being politically correct, but to clarify my statement about my Norwegian cousin, sterotyping them into quiet, docile, bland, individuals, some could have achieved what I did, but most wouldn't in the same way, or never....I can't see them boldly throwing themselves out of a wheelchair, falling on the floor to learn how to crawl so eventually to learn how to walk again, or type on a childs play typewriter with one finger to communicate with, because she couldn't talk, to yell at doctors and nurses who told her, no , you can't do it! MY Norwegian cousins just don't have the stamina, not saying it can't be done, but I was rehabilitating myself before there ever was a dept of disabled services at the UofM, I was a pioneer, and who knows , perhaps they have some of the Lief Erikson in them after all, they make good Rommagrout, ha, seriously, giving Lena and Ole a bad time, love them Norwegians,,,,,


43 posted on 06/06/2006 4:48:22 AM PDT by Keisha
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To: goldstategop

Auschwitz wasn't built by God but by men who thought they were God.


44 posted on 06/06/2006 4:56:50 AM PDT by quadrant
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