Payload class 360 t
Engine output 2,013 - 2,722 kW
Maximum Operating Weight 592 t
Max. travel speed 64 km/h
BTW those are metric tonnes -- payload is about 400 U.S. tons.
Posted on 06/06/2006 6:16:07 PM PDT by G. Stolyarov II
A Camry hybrid costs about $5,000 more than it's nonhybrid brother, or is it sister?
If a driver goes 15,000 miles a year with an efficiency of 39mpg s/he will save about $500/yr. Easy math. It will take 10 years to get your money back.
The good news is a Toyota will last 10 years and 150,000 miles. The bad news is Americans won't drive the same car for that long. But then neither will anybody else in any other country. The Japanese will change cars every 3-5 years.
This is one of the reasons why the hybrid market only makes up 1.2% of US vehicle sales.
So, does that mean hybrids aren't worth it?
Hardly...what it means is if more people bought them the price would go down.
It also means that money is spent in making cars rather than consuming gasoline... and there is a different kind of savings there.
The question - are there trade-offs worth it?
No hybrid is worth it.
It's even worse, if you take interest into consideration.
Better yet. My friends VW Golf TDI diesel regularly gets 50mpg at highway speeds.... 75 mph in Utah. No hybrid can do that.
The future is turbo diesels... not hybrids.
Who the hell drives only 15,000 miles a year except for the 80-year-old grandmother who only goes to church on Sundays? I drive 15,000 miles a year just going to work.
And what is all the fussing on the Free Republic about hybrids? What is wrong with hybrids? You don't have to be Governor Moonbeam or ALgore to like a hybrid. Hybrids are going to be the future of the car industry. The internal combustion engine is on the way out and hybrids are just the beginning. Get used to it. Soon we are going to be driving in battery-operated cars in which you type in the destination and then the car drives itself, automatically compensating for traffic and taking alternate routes as necessary. Then we will be taking to the skies as "personal airplanes" will become commonplace.
So? To some folks "hybrids" are live wives?
Diesel is the way to go. A good diesel-powered auto will go 400,000 miles or more. Not only do the match the hybrids in fuel economy, they save tons of energy and environmental impact by simply lasting longer.
The energy savings and environmental impact of hybrid will be dwarfed by losses in both areas when cars need to be replaced far sooner thier diesel counterpart. I'm betting that few, if any, hybrids will get new batteries when they go bad, and the car will be scrapped. Furthermore, no one is talking about the environmental impact of building heavy-metal batteries, and disposing of the same at salvage.
Hybrid technology works well - every locomotive in the modern world uses it (diesel-electric) - but those vehicles are built to much different standards, and used in much different ways.
I advocate gong to sail cars out here in the west. If windwagons were good enough for our forebears, why not sail cars for us?
My 1986 (original owner) Honda Civic hatchback is at 252,000 miles and still going strong!!
I still get 34 mpg.
add HPDI 2-stroke engines to that list.
Bad analysis to support a reasonable point ...
It doesn't matter whether people sell their cars before they recoup whatever savings on gas are imagined, because this will be figured into the sale price when they dispose of the car (assuming it is drivable).
ML/NJ
If God had wanted hybrid cars He wouldn't have created the internal combustion engine.
"add HPDI 2-stroke engines to that list."
There was a local company that chased 2-cycle technology for years before throwing in the towel. Tiny little engines, great fuel economy, wonderful performance... and horrible emissions.
If someone ever gets the emissions part figured out, and has proven reliability, all in a package that is as cheap as a conventional motor, they might have something.
An 8 year old car that needs $7K is more likely to be junked than fixed (unless it's Rolls or some such)
I meant that hybrids are like "wives" to some people. You need to get a newer one every three or five years.
I've always believed diesel cars and pickups should have the exhaust pipe in the front. The drivers can then enjoy what the rest of us get.
Then why did he create the horse and buggy?
"When they come out with an SUV or pickup hybrid...."
I'd love a hybrid pickup that has 110 VAC and 220VAC jacks for powering tools, etc. A few hundred thousand of those driving our streets would come in real handy in the event of a massive power outage - can you imagine how handy they'd have been in the Katrina aftermath?
But I don't care, because our involvement with Saudi Arabia and the rest of those camel jockeys constitutes a true national emergency, and the cost of getting crude oil to make gasoline from them (and I don't just mean the cost in dollars) is going to rise for the whole rest of your and my life.
Every gallon that a hybrid doesn't burn, every gallon that an ethanol-burner doesn't use, is a step towards national security and freedom from war.
I like turbodiesels, too.
And then Mr Robinson all evil in the world will be gone.
"I've always believed diesel cars and pickups should have the exhaust pipe in the front. The drivers can then enjoy what the rest of us get."
You obviously haven't followed a newer diesel, have you? No soot, no obnoxious fumes (at least not like it used to be). If you haven't tried diesel in the past 5 years, you haven't tried diesel.
My Toyota Scion XA gets 36mpg average and costs 14K with automatic and everything but cruise control. It's huge inside and cruises at 80 all day.
The hybrid cars aren't there yet.
My idea of a hybrid was my brother's 64 GTO, with a 600 hp 396.
I don't think you are supposed to talk about that.
I saw a report that, of the $6.50+ per gallon they pay in Britain (after converting units), over $4.50 is in taxes. The REAL price was actually lower than U.S.
Yeah, but LOL, I think that Katrina aftermath was beyond a few wired pickups. LOL
Actually, particulate emissions from diesel engines (what produces the foul smell) are easily controllable, and have been in places, such as the EU. There is currently no economic incentive, however, for diesel manufacturers outside of the EU to control emissions, although the Bush Administration EPA is putting in place modest particulate restrictions on interstate trucking.
The point of all that is that you can have diesel cars without the smell if you want them, as the technology exists today.
The math is way off. 15,000 mpy @ 29 vs 39 @2.50/gal is not a savings of $500.
In the land of the total blackout, the man with a genset is king. :-)
We have a Prius, and we love it!!! However, we didn't buy it to save money or to help the environment. We bought it because it is quiet and fun to drive!!!!!! It's fun because the gas motor isn't going at lights, when going downhill, or when going slow. It is so much quieter than any other car I've ridden in. It's more fun to drive than any other car we've owned including a Mazda RX-7, Toyota Celica, and SUVs. The acceleration is also great because the transmission works differently. You go from 0-60 very quickly!
We bought ours the first year they came out, and it is still doing great. We've only had to replace tires on it. I think it has about 100,000 miles on it.
GMC has been making 2-stroke diesels for decades. They are inthousands of trucks, construction equipment, generators and boats all over the world. the emmissions are comparable to, ok, yeah, slightly hight than, standard diesels.
In off road toys like motorcycles and snowmobiles, it tkaes a lot more displacement to get the samepower, and without as many parts, are more reliable. Your emissions point holds true, though.
Why wont Ford release their diesel in this country?
I disagree. It has been worth it to see what percentage of liberals put their money where their mouth is. When they buy a car, they can spend more to have the enviro-friendly models that they want to impose on the rest of us, and clearly, the majority of liberals reject them.
Also, according to basic economics, an item is "worth" what somene is willing to pay. Clearly, some people do believe that it is worth it to spend a few extra bucks to help the environment - assuming that hybrids actually do so.
Whether a hybrid is worth it or not is a matter of personal preferences. The analysis appears incomplete to me too.
For example, according to this website:
http://www.hybridcars.com/tax-deductions-credits.html
A Camry gets $2,600 tax credit. So for a tax PAYER, more than half the difference is paid by the tax credit. And if you save $500 per year as all the assumptions in the analysis say, you are $100 to the good after five years.
I drive 30,000 a year. Sales people drive even more. I drive a BMW, but have wondered if I would like a hybrid. But a sales person who in the car much of the time might find a hybrid does not fit their needs.
I don't get it either. You'd think they're being mandated by congress or something.
We drive about 20,000/year in our Prius, and gas costs around $3.25/gallon in California.
At 29 mpg that would be around $2241.
We get around 50 mpg for our Prius, so the cost per year on gas is $1300. We've owned ours for over five years, and it is still running great.
So I think we're doing better financially by owning the Prius.
Interesting. I didn't even know what a genset is until now.
Indeed!
Highlander and Camry: $2600
Other vehicles: $650 to $2600.
You beat me to it while I was typing! Good one.
A friend that runs a Chrysler dealership tells me that Dodge has serious plans for just that. I think it is called a Contractor Special. Pull up on the build location and have your power with you.
'64 GTOs came with a 389, not a 396.
It is a little known fact that the Japanese have a progressive tax on older cars... as your car gets older you have to pay a increasing tax or license fee... a new car or 2 year old no problem ... a 5 year old car (it used to esculate to about $4K)... a very strong incentive to buy a new car...
All the best
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