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Of Swift boats and truth [“ ...a Rovian strategy”]
The Register-Guard(OR) ^ | June 6, 2006 | Editorial

Posted on 06/07/2006 7:53:33 AM PDT by johnny7

One needn't be a John Kerry-should-have-been-president diehard to support the 2004 Democratic nominee's long-overdue effort to clear his name from vicious attacks on his military service during the Vietnam War. Granted, nearly two years have passed since Kerry's failed bid for the presidency - and more than three decades since U.S. troops fought in Vietnam. But Kerry has every right to defend his meritorious record against the smear campaign waged by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

(Excerpt) Read more at registerguard.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: fraud; hanoijohnny; ichabodcrane; lurch; militarycoward; pukealert; putridpos; riceinbutt; terayzasboytoy; threefakemedals; traitor
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“Kerry has formally requested that his entire Navy file be released, and has hired a researcher who is reviewing military archives for material that might clarify the incidents in dispute. Veterans who served with Kerry are being interviewed in an effort to reconstruct events in detail, and physical evidence, including photographs and journals, is being collected.”

I believe the proper term is invent... not reconstruct.

1 posted on 06/07/2006 7:53:35 AM PDT by johnny7
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To: johnny7

What a load of BS


2 posted on 06/07/2006 7:57:53 AM PDT by pissant
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To: johnny7
I believe the proper term is invent... not reconstruct.

Just like the "fake but accurate" reconstructed files that brought down Dan Rather.

The circumstances of JFnK's medals are the most disturbing, and the least amenable to "reconstruction" barring mass Arkancides of the retired officers who supposedly awarded them.

3 posted on 06/07/2006 7:58:54 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: johnny7

" his meritorious record "?

His "meritorious record"? ROFLMAO.

What, his record of lying, cowardice and phony Purple Heart's?

This putrid POS should be in prison for treason.

"Prison for Treason" has a nice ring to it don't ya think?


4 posted on 06/07/2006 7:59:38 AM PDT by garyhope
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To: johnny7

Had he fought the charges during his campaign he might have done better. People like a fighter.


5 posted on 06/07/2006 7:59:40 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: johnny7
bwahahaha...what a pathetic loser this guy is. He's dangerously stupid because apparently he believes that:

a) he's a soldier's Soldier
b) everything "seared" in his memory is automatically true
c) he's got a shot in 2008 at revenge on Bush for losing in 2004 (which by the way, is a "great" (not) reason for wanting to lead the country)
d) the Tired Old Media will always protect him with softball questions
e) he's "John Forbes Kerry" and that should good enough for you little taxpaying commoners.

6 posted on 06/07/2006 8:01:43 AM PDT by kromike
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To: johnny7

GOD BLESS AND PROTECT OUR TROOPS!



Traitor-in-Chief

7 posted on 06/07/2006 8:02:04 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969. - St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle!)
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To: johnny7
“Kerry has formally requested that his entire Navy file be released" - but not to the public

"and has hired a researcher who is reviewing military archives for material that might clarify the incidents in dispute" - depends on whay you mean by "clarify"

"Veterans who served with Kerry are being interviewed in an effort to reconstruct events in detail"

Which veterans?

"and physical evidence, including photographs and journals, is being collected” and selectively discarded depending on the nature of that physical evidence.

8 posted on 06/07/2006 8:02:35 AM PDT by Smedley
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To: johnny7

This is getting sickening. All Kerry had to do was release ALL of his records, but despite his promise to do so, we still haven't seen them.

The Swift Boat Vets haven't been proven wrong yet, so I won't consider it a "smear" to tell the truth about someone's record.


9 posted on 06/07/2006 8:02:39 AM PDT by mak5
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To: johnny7
Kerry's problem was the video of his testimony before the Senate fragging his brothers.

Not his activities in country.
10 posted on 06/07/2006 8:05:47 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: mak5
This is getting sickening. All Kerry had to do was release ALL of his records, but despite his promise to do so, we still haven't seen them.

Exactly, he seems to have released the records, but only to very friendly "researchers", who work for very friendly branches of the Dinosaur Media, specifically, Boston Globe, AP, and the LA Times.

11 posted on 06/07/2006 8:08:50 AM PDT by El Gato
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: johnny7
Even though many of the allegations were obviously false and part of a Rovian strategy to blunt Kerry's strongest political attribute

Funny they didn't mention one specific charge that "were obviously false"..if memory serves..it was kerry who had to acknowledge that he wasn't in Cambodia in Christmas 1968 for mentioning in the past that he knew President Nixon was lying about us not being there..even though Nixon was not President in Christmas 1968..I wish these guys could give us specific charges that were false..just one..please..

13 posted on 06/07/2006 8:09:28 AM PDT by BerniesFriend
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To: P-40
Had he fought the charges during his campaign he might have done better. People like a fighter.

IMHO, to put it more accurately: Had he been able to fight the charges...

Since the charges were based on the truth of the situations and his defense could only have been based on outright lies and deception, it never would have worked.

14 posted on 06/07/2006 8:11:08 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Smedley
Which veterans?

The Dewey Canyon veterans.

15 posted on 06/07/2006 8:12:16 AM PDT by Plutarch
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To: johnny7
a heroic war record in a contest against a president who never went to war -

A stupid editorial, because: as the above sentence notes, the whole purpose of highlighting Kerry's war-record was to denigrate GWB. So no whining if you get denigrated instead. Kerry stupidly over-played his hand and got burned. His most heinous acts actually occurred back in the U.S. after his tour of duty and were recorded on videotape. The duplicitous traitor those tapes show were and are far more damaging to Kerry than any of the Swift-Boat allegations.

16 posted on 06/07/2006 8:12:24 AM PDT by ghost of nixon
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To: angkor

"The whole thing was very fishy."

Dead fishy, stinks to high heaven.


17 posted on 06/07/2006 8:14:34 AM PDT by garyhope
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To: johnny7
perhaps most preposterously, of lying about his military experience in order to get medals that the young soldier hoped would someday help him get elected president.

How much credence does the author expect, given he doesn't know the difference between a soldier and a sailor? Given also that he never mentions those instances where Kerry's "seared" memories turn out to be demonstrably false.

However much the author expects, he deserves none and gets none from me.

18 posted on 06/07/2006 8:15:34 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: johnny7

Why is there any need for an investigation? The author of the column already knows the essential details of Kerry's service, which he already knows to have been heroic; he already knows that the Swift Boat veterans have lied every time they have opened their mouths; etc. Case closed! And furthermore, though he demurs, the author d--n well knows that Kerry SHOULD have been elected president.


19 posted on 06/07/2006 8:16:15 AM PDT by hauerf
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To: El Gato
Ping. Again with the false premise that thew Swift Boaters smeared John Kerry. What did they say that was false? <>
20 posted on 06/07/2006 8:17:01 AM PDT by jackieaxe (Democrats are mired in a culture of screwing English speaking, taxpaying, law abiding citizens!)
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To: roses of sharon
Not his activities in country.

But the lies and fantasies he told about those activities are a problem.

21 posted on 06/07/2006 8:17:02 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: ghost of nixon

Furthermore, those videotapes of Kerry comparing his fellow servicemen to "Ghengis Khan" - if you were weighing the evidence in a courtroom - serve as a perfect character witness. They show Kerry's character was consistent with the kind of person who would put in for phony medals and put his own self-interest WAY above the interests of his fellow servicemen.


22 posted on 06/07/2006 8:20:11 AM PDT by ghost of nixon
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To: garyhope

I just found all the PH awards grouped together in a single PDF. The issue I was referring to above is pretty much solved by looking at the three together. The "obscure LT" I mentioned - Donald Still - apparently signed all the PH awards for the U.S. Naval Support Activity command, which IIRC was the command for all inland waterway activity including riverine bases, boats, and personnel.

In other words, nevermind.

http://news.corporatecounselcentre.ca/hdocs/docs/jkerry/jk3phearts.pdf


23 posted on 06/07/2006 8:21:21 AM PDT by angkor
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To: johnny7

Consider the source...Eugene and the U. of Oregon are just Berkeley North. Nothing coming from there is to be taken seriously.


24 posted on 06/07/2006 8:22:56 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but the wise are full of doubts.)
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To: johnny7
Even though many of the allegations were obviously false and part of a Rovian strategy to blunt Kerry's strongest political attribute - a heroic war record in a contest against a president who never went to war - they helped sow the seeds of doubt that ultimately cost Kerry the election.

A Rovian strategy? BS. Rove had nothing to do with it. The SBVFT were a real 527 group. They were not partisan and would have gone after Kerry if he had run as the GOP candidate. When asked about the SBVFT, Bush said all 527s should be eliminated including the SBVFT. McCain called them "dishonest and dishonorable."

Rove almost blew the campaign. He should say a prayer each night for the SBVFT who changed the outcome of the election. Kerry knows that more than anyone else. They froze him like a deer in the headlights for almost a month as Kerry trotted out surrogate after to surrogate to try to disprove the SBVFT's charges. They couldn't do it.

Kerry knows that he has to continue this quest to refute the charges if he wants to run again for public office, including the Senate. Also, his whole persona and life have been built on a phony record as a war hero. It cuts him to the quick and must have affected his self-image. I hope he continues on this obsessive Quixotic quest and the SBVFT load up for the next salvo. <

25 posted on 06/07/2006 8:29:16 AM PDT by kabar
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To: johnny7
One needn't be a John Kerry-should-have-been-president diehard to support the 2004 Democratic nominee's long-overdue effort to clear his name from vicious attacks on his military service during the Vietnam War.

That's about as far as you have to read to know that this author has little interest in truth. For the press, looking into the questions raised about John Kerry's service record should not be a matter of clearing his name but learning what really happened. Did this author read the book Unfit for Command? Do they care about the irregularities in Kerry's service papers or accounts of what happened that surfaced after the book? Probably not. Because as this disclaimer makes clear, they are a "John Kerry-should-have-been-president diehard" and it's all about clearing Kerry. "Truth" isn't even on their radar.

26 posted on 06/07/2006 8:29:52 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: johnny7

But Kerry has every right to defend his meritorious record against the smear campaign waged by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Then release ALL of the pages in his record. Kerry continues to avoid authorizing release of all the pages in his record. 100 pages HAVE NOT been released. How can one take him seriously that he wants to defend his record when he refuses to make his records available.


27 posted on 06/07/2006 8:30:10 AM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: El Gato
The 2004 Kerry for President Campaign spend over 310 million dollars, but they could NOT come up with his war record?

That is $310,000,000.00 +

A war record that would be a freebie from the military.

This a bit more than a slight tactical error made during the 2004 campaign.

28 posted on 06/07/2006 8:33:13 AM PDT by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: johnny7

So he will sign the 180 form?

I don't see how he cleans it up any other way.


29 posted on 06/07/2006 8:33:28 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Drill ANWR, Personal Accounts NOW.)
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To: Bob
Had he been able to fight the charges...

True enough...but he did not even seem willing to give the appearance of putting up a fight. Except for some lame "keep it up and I'll send my campaign manager out to make a statement" he stayed fairly quiet. He should have left Vietnam out of the election and not....reported for duty.
30 posted on 06/07/2006 8:34:58 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: hauerf

Kerry SHOULD have been elected president.

LOL, surely you can't be serious.
100 pages of records haven't been released. Why not?
He'd have credibility if he'd simply release the records.


31 posted on 06/07/2006 8:36:17 AM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: El Gato
Agreed. He really did look foolish, but without that video, battlefield lies would have been hard to debate.

He should have renounced his past testimony and explained his mindset, (at the time), to the American people, if he wanted the Presidency.

But he couldn't, and that is very telling, that he can renounce, smear, lie, distort, and give aid and comfort to America's enemies with ease, but could not bring himself to spin his testimony.

His hatred of his country is obviously a core value that he could not renounce.

Even more evidence that he and his party have openly chosen sides now, they are with our enemies.
32 posted on 06/07/2006 8:38:22 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: angkor
If you notice the date of the endorsement letter for the first PH, it is February 28 for a December 2 incident. The other endorsement letters for the other two PHs are closer to the dates of the actual incidents.

Kerry's first PH has always been a mystery. There was no after action report. The doctor, Dr. Letson, who treated him said the "wound" looked like a prick from a rose thorn. Kerry's immediate supervisor, LCDR Hibbard, refused to put him in for a PH. According to Adm. William Schachte there was no enemy fire'

Kerry's first PH was awarded after he was transfered to another command. No one knows how he got it. It would be really interesting to see the nomination form to see who signed off on it. I suspect that Kerry may well have forged it or some documents supporting it and then submitted to the chain of command.

33 posted on 06/07/2006 8:40:23 AM PDT by kabar
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To: johnny7

Kerry's gunna Sh$T when the researchers find out David Alston never served on the same boat with Kerry.


34 posted on 06/07/2006 8:45:59 AM PDT by stylin19a (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.)
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To: garyhope; CPT Clay

> ... phony Purple Heart's?

Oh, they're real enough. It's just that it's likely that
all of them were for unintentionally self-inflicted
wounds resulting from incompetent handling of grenades
and grenade launchers.

> So he will sign the 180 form?

He did, at least twice, but always restricted to
"reliable" reviewers, such as favored propagandists
at the NYT-Jr (Boston Globe).


35 posted on 06/07/2006 8:47:17 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: jackieaxe

Juan Williams is famous for saying that. He always says the "Now Discredited Swift Boaters". I want Brit to yell back at him, "How have they been discredited?"

Say the lie over and over again.


36 posted on 06/07/2006 8:48:13 AM PDT by Holicheese (Stanley Cup's new home will be North Carolina!)
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To: johnny7
He may have every right to try to defend himself, but it's a pale attempt because his record is indefensible.
37 posted on 06/07/2006 8:48:46 AM PDT by Fudd Fan (My dog ate my tagline.)
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To: kabar
Also, his whole persona and life have been built on a phony record as a war hero. It cuts him to the quick and must have affected his self-image.

Kerry's entire construction of "Kerry as war hero" and "Kerry as antiwar patriot" seem central to his persona, which is bizarre enough in itself.

But whenever I think back to the Rat convention, with Kerry playing himself as the "war hero" in a play that no one really cares about but himself, it gives me the heebie-jeebies. He reminded me of a little kid marching around in Daddy's old uniform, 10 sizes too big, and announcing that he was the commander of the U.S. Navy, as we adults chuckled away at Johnny's little parade.

Funny in a kid, creepy in an adult.

What kind of psycho would contruct his entire llife and career around such obviously false events that didn't actually occur?

Kerry is truly an obsessive nutcase. Thank God for the Swifties.

38 posted on 06/07/2006 8:51:02 AM PDT by angkor
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To: roses of sharon

"Kerry's problem was the video of his testimony before the Senate fragging his brothers"
Not a problem with me as clear proof of treason. At least the man is consistent in accusing troops of attrocities in Vietnam and Iraq with no evidence.


39 posted on 06/07/2006 8:52:34 AM PDT by griswold3 (Ken Blackwell, Ohio Governor in 2006- No!! You cannot have my governor in 2008.)
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To: angkor

"Kerry is truly an obsessive nutcase. Thank God for the Swifties."

Double dittos to that and a hearty Amen too.


40 posted on 06/07/2006 8:56:44 AM PDT by garyhope
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To: kabar; El Gato; johnny7; Joan Kerrey; Question_Assumptions; P-40

I think we will all concur that Kerry's continual obsession with this is well beyond "normal" psychologically. There is clearly something not right about the man.

Kerry's pursuit of this is wrongheaded, pointless, and counterproductive from so many different angles that you begin to wonder whether it isn't s some kind of private hell he's built for himself for some purpose we don't undertstand.

Maybe he just took too many acid trips.


41 posted on 06/07/2006 9:05:13 AM PDT by angkor
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To: El Gato; All

JK signed the Form 180 to release "Navy" records to only Boston Globe reporter Kranish (who was JK's fawning biographer).

JK joined the Naval Reserves which is different than active duty regular Navy. Therefore it is likely there are additional records at US Military records in Nebraska. The records also may not include the release and discharge records. JK was "discharged" many years after his commitment time ran out. It is assumed that he received a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) or a Discharge "under less than honorable conditions" because of his rather notorious anti-war rallying and attempts to negotiate with the enemy in Paris while he was still a member of the Navy reserves. He did not squawk about government harassment at the time, but the WH was not friendly to him and it would be reasonable and plausible that the Naval reserves and/or Navy took action against his treasonous conduct. The military has an Article 15 procedure that is basically off the record punishment. Later, when Carter became President and pardoned all the draft dodgers, he may well have cleaned up JK's records, upgraded his discharge and reissued the medals (they are dated under Reagan's Secretary of the Navy - Lehman?). All these records should be made public.

Dubya signed a Form 180 and the first thing media did was file a FOIA request for all records and they got them, and squeezed them and misconstrued them, etc.

The thing is: Dubya joined Air National Guard and JK joined Naval Reserves which at the time were considered alternative to the draft where you became an Army groundpounder. Many who chose those alternatives were trying to serve their country. I am sure that some (I believe a minority) joined as a way to avoid combat as NG and Reserves were not designed to go to war - even tho they did then and do so more now days. Any guard and reservist is just as valid of a veteran as anyone else, and media and anyone else who tries to divide them can GTH.

JK has cheapened the Silver Star and of course the Purple Heart since he insisted on receiving same despite not much injury and little valor. (Similarly LBJ got a Silver Star for riding a plane which went near some combat. Like a joke!)

JK also kept diary, journals, filmed his battles, went back and recorded his "exploits" on film, left his boat to get his Silver Star even tho commander should not leave boat.

Bottom line, Swift Boaters know what they were talking about and have never been discredited (just called liars by media, Lawrence O'Donnell, JK and McCain). JK has unlimited resources to run them into the ground for the rest of their days unless they just die or give up. Meanwhile media keeps chanting the mantra: Swift Boaters have all been discredited; they worked for Nixon and then Rove, they made it all up, etc.

JK was in-country 4 months, the first month spent training in safe zone.

I looked at some of his released records awhile back on this site, and a Navy guy told me that certain entries indicated that the person (JK) would not be considered eligible for reenlistment or whatever they do for officers. In other words, these records do neeed to be studied by an expert to translate what they mean. There is a lot more junk in there than "meets the eye". At first grance JK seems to have been evaluated OK, but I am told that the scores are really career killers. It takes a trained eye.

If JK wants to keep stirring this pot: Bring 'em on.!


42 posted on 06/07/2006 9:06:13 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: angkor

Read my post #42 which I should have copied you on. Semper fi.


43 posted on 06/07/2006 9:08:50 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: johnny7
It's not just the Swifties that have Kerry's treason down pat.

When John Kerry Slandered Me

44 posted on 06/07/2006 9:12:05 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: hauerf
Zactly... if Kerry's Vietnam record is as pure as the driven snow... there's no need for this waste of time/money.

The author MUST demand that Kerry FULLY release his Form 180... and save his money for another run in 2008!

45 posted on 06/07/2006 9:12:55 AM PDT by johnny7 (“And what's Fonzie like? Come on Yolanda... what's Fonzie like?!”)
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To: angkor
It goes to the very fabric of his being. He may be delusional and actually believes that he is a war hero and earned the three PHs, Silver and Bronze stars in just four months and 12 days in-country. He had a personal license plate for his car, PH3.

Kerry has used the war hero persona all his political life. Without that, he is a shallow, pompous wind bag who has earned his wealth the old fashioned way--he married it.

46 posted on 06/07/2006 9:14:21 AM PDT by kabar
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To: johnny7

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Some of the best money I ever spent.


47 posted on 06/07/2006 9:16:08 AM PDT by Loyal Buckeye
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To: angkor
What kind of psycho would contruct his entire llife and career around such obviously false events that didn't actually occur? Kerry is truly an obsessive nutcase. Thank God for the Swifties.

A cunning nutcase who has parlayed it into being a wealthy US senator who ran for President and received the second highest vote total of anyone who has ever run for that office. There are plenty of examples where people have used phony resumes to fuel their personal ambitions. I agree, thank God for the Swifties, true patriots who are still paying a price for standing up to this jerk.

48 posted on 06/07/2006 9:19:14 AM PDT by kabar
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To: johnny7

ROFLOL

Make the prick walk the plank

Keelhaul him

How about him becoming a weather vane off the yardarm


49 posted on 06/07/2006 9:20:57 AM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (Islam Schmislam blahblahblah, enough already!)
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To: kabar
He may be delusional and actually believes that he is a war hero ....

One wants to believe that a sitting Senator is at worst "just another politican," and that lying is part of the game. But with Kerry I think we're into serious delusional mode, and that - you're right - his "hero" status is so psychologically important to him (even if it's fake, and even if he knows it's fake) that he'll do anything to maintain it.

Without that, he is a shallow, pompous wind bag who has earned his wealth the old fashioned way--he married it.

Years ago I lived in Mass, and one of my friends was good pals with a Forbes family member, cousin to then Mass AG John Kerry.

It turned out he completely loathed cousin Kerry, so we'd deliberately talk about him just to get a rise from the guy (ha ha). He thought Kerry was "a fake Forbes", and that is an accurate quote. And he could barely discuss cousin John withour looking like he was sucking on lemons.

50 posted on 06/07/2006 9:29:37 AM PDT by angkor
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