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Railroads Struggle to Ship Coal in U.S.
Associated Press ^ | June 10, 2006 | BOB MOEN

Posted on 06/10/2006 3:23:49 AM PDT by decimon

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To: Jonah Hex

The article is right on that point -- at least as far as coal shipped from a single source. The amount of coal shipped out of the Powder River Basin dwarfs the volume shipped from any one source by the eastern railroads.


41 posted on 06/10/2006 7:07:50 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: chief_bigfoot
As with the gasoline 'crisis', we are sorely lacking in keeping up and expanding the infrastructure required to fuel our nation.

Who is "we?" It is not the responsibility of the Federal government to expand the infrastructure for the nation's railroads.

42 posted on 06/10/2006 7:09:08 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: iowamark

From what I read at the link you've posted, it looks like that organization is a strong advocate of what is called an "open access" concept in the railroad industry. Under this idea, the Federal government would basically legislate the railroad industry out of existence as we know it -- and allow any company that wants to operate trains to run on the railroads.


43 posted on 06/10/2006 7:14:03 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: decimon
The environmentalists are destroying this country as planned. Why not gasify coal in place and have some pipelines? Why not use a slurry coal pipeline? Build a nuclear plant close to coal and use waste heat to gasify coal and use the power for the mines. A lot could be done if we did not have eco terrorists in our mists.
44 posted on 06/10/2006 7:57:51 AM PDT by mountainlyons (Hard core conservative)
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To: decimon

Here we have huge unmet demand and a license to print money and they still want a subsidy. What the hell?


45 posted on 06/10/2006 8:06:33 AM PDT by DManA
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To: chief_bigfoot
IMHO, we need to move from coal-fired plants anyways.

With more than 200 years of known coal supply at todays usage levels that would be foolish.

46 posted on 06/10/2006 8:37:10 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with really stupid enemies.)
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To: DManA
Here we have huge unmet demand and a license to print money and they still want a subsidy. What the hell?

The heaven is in the first part of your first sentence. The hell is that a subsidy is almost certainly a propping of the least efficient operation.

47 posted on 06/10/2006 8:44:24 AM PDT by decimon
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To: taxed2death
So you believe that "efficiency" is proven by the number of trains and miles of cars?  I'll bet that you have ever had the misfortune of shipping by rail.

By the same comparison of "efficiency" let's look at the Postal Service.  Each day, millions of pieces of mail (mostly junk mail) is deposited in it's offices.  They sort the mail and have "miles" of trucks, aircraft and trains move the mail.

Now the catch..."efficiency" doesn't mean how much work you have...it's how you process it and how fast you deliver it.  For example, back in the 50's I could mail a letter to my next door neighbor.  The letter would be picked up by the postman and taken to the post office to be sorted.  In-town mail stayed in town and out of town mail was sent out of town.  The next day my neighbor would receive his mail.

Now, fast forward to the modern era.  I put a letter to my neighbor in the mailbox at my home.  The postman picks up the letter (in his little truck...in the 50's they walked) and brings it back to the post office after the completion of his route.  The letter is placed in the post office.  Here's where the efficiency starts even though the drop boxes outside of the post office and inside read "local mail only" and "out of town only."  The local letter is mixed with all other mail going to a "mystery" town miles away for sorting.  It is not sorted in the post office for local delivery. If the letter is not brought back in time to be dumped into the daily pile by the 5pm departure of the out of town truck, it will go out to the sorting facility the next day.

To prove the efficiency of the post office, the neighbor may receive the letter no sooner that 2 days and up to 7 days at the latest.  We live in Alice, Texas and the postmark may be from Corpus Christi, McAllen, Victoria or San Antonio.  That is where the letter finally ended up to be sorted.

Now, back to the highly efficient rail roads, who by the way are so efficient that they all have had their feet at, near, or in the bankruptcy pit   Most have been bailed out by some type of Government regulation or help.

The problem with the railroads is management, both administrative and logistical.  It is just as bad as the post office.  Have you ever tracked a rail car?  Have you ever shipped to a customer by rail with a deadline to meet in Laredo?  Ever wonder why your rail car was loaded in San Angelo, tracked to Detroit, followed to Memphis (where it sat on a siding for two weeks) and then mistakenly ended up in McAllen and the whole trip took four weeks?  Well, that's the efficiency of the rail and postal system.

No wonder most ship by motor freight!  It gets there on time!  Efficiently!

48 posted on 06/10/2006 9:07:09 AM PDT by DH (The government writes no bill that does not line the pockets of special interests.)
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To: NoCmpromiz

Railroad ping


49 posted on 06/10/2006 9:28:47 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: DH

Nice map of respective rail freight in countries. The US rules.
50 posted on 06/10/2006 9:47:31 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Jacquerie

good point....ask al, he's probably calculated it>>>


51 posted on 06/10/2006 9:49:43 AM PDT by Nightrider
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To: DH
"No wonder most ship by motor freight! It gets there on time! Efficiently!"

Why doesn't our coal get shipped by motor freight?
52 posted on 06/10/2006 10:01:32 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: decimon

Did the Navajo mines on black Meas Recently close? I somehoe think this very large operation was shut down recently. It supplied coal to power plants in AZ


53 posted on 06/10/2006 10:07:14 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: bert

Sorry but I have no idea.


54 posted on 06/10/2006 12:14:56 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Tinian
Yes, I did bother to read the article.

"Today's railroads use a rail system that had not added track and other infrastructure for decades. In fact, before 2003, railroads had been abandoning miles of unprofitable and underused lines."

And I did read about the addition of one 75 mile stretch. BFD in the entire scope of the issue. My position is that the coal-fired plants and the problem of feeding them via railline is an idea whose time has come to pass. How many gallons of diesel fuel are we willing to commit to run these deliveries when our refining capacity is stretched too the max. Wouldn't it be a benefit all the way down the line to move away from coal-fired plants to something that doesn't require the expenditure of vast quantities of fuel, steel, and land? My original beef was that nothing is being done to address these problems, either now or in the future. That doesn't sound silly or rantful to me. I mean, really, a rant? I only used caps at the start of the sentences, not the whole sentence. Hardly a rant by any stretch.

55 posted on 06/10/2006 12:53:53 PM PDT by chief_bigfoot (Welcome to America. Please leave your hyphenation at the border.)
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To: decimon
"Don't think there's another option but nu-kew-ler and those plants would take time to build."

Exactly my point. Go nuke. Yes it would take time, but it's going to take even longer if we don't start at all.

56 posted on 06/10/2006 12:55:59 PM PDT by chief_bigfoot (Welcome to America. Please leave your hyphenation at the border.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

I don't want to nationalize anything. I want W to take steps to clear some of the beauracratic bravo sierra so that we can start to dig ourselves out of this energy deficit.


57 posted on 06/10/2006 12:59:38 PM PDT by chief_bigfoot (Welcome to America. Please leave your hyphenation at the border.)
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To: Alberta's Child
It is the responsibility of the government to conduct itself in such a way that they encourage, rather than discourage development and expansion. Add to the fact that we are a nation at war and a nation facing an escalating energy supply problem and I think we are justified in expecting the officials we elected to step up and take actions to help remedy the situation instead of adding to the problem.
58 posted on 06/10/2006 1:05:21 PM PDT by chief_bigfoot (Welcome to America. Please leave your hyphenation at the border.)
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