Attorney general calls for investigation into Jeep Grand Cherokees

WTNH Television ^ | 6/13/06 | Puppage

[Puppage]

(New Haven-WTNH, June 13, 2006 6:15 AM) _ There is a call for a federal investigation into potentially deadly problems with Jeep Grand Cherokees. We first told you about the problems in a Team 8 Investigation in April, now state officials are taking action.

The attorney general is calling for a federal investigation into potentially fatal problems with Jeep Grand Cherokees. This comes just months after a freak accident at a Hamden car wash killed a 52-year-old man. A Jeep Grand Cherokee went out of control and mowed down the man. It is called "jeep sudden acceleration," and apparently it happens when a Grand Cherokee is shifted from neutral to drive.

Doug Newman, the owner of Newman's Connecticut Car Wash says he's seen it before -- at least four times, "The incidents I know of with this problem all occur at the exit end of the car wash. Upon starting the car, the car immediately red lines, goes to 2800 - 3000 RPMs, at the same time you're putting the car in gear it takes off."

Problems with sudden acceleration have also been reported at places like drive up ATMs.

Daimler Chrysler, which makes Jeep, does not acknowledge there is a problem. The company says they did several studies that concluded "driver error is the only plausible explanation for sudden acceleration."

[Puppage]

apparently it happens when a Grand Cherokee is shifted from neutral to drive

Ok, maybe it's me, but who doesn't have their foot on the brake when shifting from park or neutral into drive?

[paudio]

Off topic, but how come some people complain about sport teams with names like 'fighting xxx' or 'xxx warriors' but not about Grand Cherokee?

[IrishMike]

Ping me if you hear any more on this, I own one.
Actually runs good, no complaints.
It's a 2005 with 19K miles -it should.

[butternut_squash_bisque]

I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee Laredo, and do just that foot brake, while shifting. You can't get the tranny out of P into any gear unless you have your foot on the brake. Neutral into D doesn't require that, but it's always a good idea.

Wasn't Audi charged with something similar about 25+ years ago? And it was driver error? My memory's a tad fuzzy on that case.

[atomicpossum]

"driver error is the only plausible explanation for sudden acceleration."

Sure sounds like driver error to me.

[ovrtaxt]

Don't most cars go to several thousand rpm upon start? I have yet to own a car that goes directly to 800 rpm when you turn the key. Sounds like some goober at the carwash is cranking it without his foot on the brake, and immediately throwing it in to D.

[Puppage]

Off topic, but how come some people complain about sport teams with names like 'fighting xxx' or 'xxx warriors' but not about Grand Cherokee?

It's coming very soon

[IrishMike]

.....Wasn't Audi charged with something similar about 25+ years ago? And it was driver error? My memory's a tad fuzzy on that case.......


I don't recall it being that long ago, but there was a rash of Audi's 'crashing' into gas station pumps.
Audi 6000's or Audi 9000's I believe ?????

[Red Badger]

Yes, the Audi 5000 was supposedly capable of sudden and unexplained acceleration and no known reason was ever found, I believe. However, the sales of the car were severely affected to the point it had to be discontinued............

[Puppage]

Wasn't Audi charged with something similar about 25+ years ago? And it was driver error? My memory's a tad fuzzy on that case.

Yes, I remember that, too. I believe that was mechanical, though. Although, I was partying pretty hard back in the 70's.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

In my truck, you have to have the brake on to shift out of park. I can't see someone shifting from park to reverse, then to neutral, letting up on the brake, and THEN shifting to drive.

[jaydubya2]

I beleive it was a problem with an electronic throttle. I knew someone who crashed due to this problem. I don't think Audi ever accepted responsibility.

[Publius6961]

Ok, maybe it's me, but who doesn't have their foot on the brake when shifting from park or neutral into drive?

Incompetent drivers?

[Abathar]

A similar thing happened in the Ford Explorer a few years ago, they put the PCV line directly into the throttle body instead of feeding it into the air duct without a little heater. In extremely cold weather the moisture would freeze the throttle body open, people were driving their vehicles through the back of their garage, through stop signs, one lady even ran right into the side of a train.

The brakes couldn't hold back the engine, they just don't have that kind of power. I built the air ducts molds for that year explorer and you would not believe how fast they altered it to adapt the PVC valve in the upstream airflow. Had to make the duct out of oil resistant rubber then, costs of the duct almost doubled and if memory serves a couple of engineers at Ford were looking for a new job that week.

[newgeezer]

Cherokee went out of control and mowed down the man.

Vicious, killing savages, those Cherokees!

[Blueflag]

"Upon starting the car, the car immediately red lines, goes to 2800 - 3000 RPMs,"

I really don't hink 3000 RPM is a redline.

And even if the engine DID "redline", a foot on the brake pedal, required to shift the vehicle out of park, has more torque than the engine does, and the car WILL NOT MOVE.

Too often I see car was attendants, in a hurry, sit half way into the car, door open, to drive it 30 feet to the drying/wiping area.

THERE you will locate the operator error.

[IrishMike]

.....I beleive it was a problem with an electronic throttle. I knew someone who crashed due to this problem. I don't think Audi ever accepted responsibility.....


Yeah, that rings a bell.
Thanks.

[IamConservative]

If you are in neutral, most cars will idle at 900 or so RPM. If you put it in gear, the car should still idle at 900 or so RPM. The PCM will increase fuel to maintain idle RPM under the additional load of the transmission.

Strictly a guess, but I would say the PCM is overreacting to a change in an operating measurement, possibly vacuum. I would look in the code anywhere an automatic increase in fuel is called for without limit.

Sounds like a world class software bug to me.

[Wolfie]

Yes, it was Audi. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Turns out a bunch of folks couldn't tell the gas pedal from the brake.

[BallyBill]

I have tranny trouble in my Cherokee Sport right now (unrelated to this), while checking the fluid you have it in Neutral w/ Parking Brake on and engine running. I always stand to the side, but I do walk in front of the vehicle. Maybe I'll take the long way around when I check it again.

[Ptaz]

Maybe that's why Jeep is pulling the Grand Cherokee and Liberty from their 2007 line-up.

[Jim Noble]

"The incidents I know of with this problem all occur at the exit end of the car wash. Upon starting the car, the car immediately red lines, goes to 2800 - 3000 RPMs, at the same time you're putting the car in gear it takes off."

Get an Audi.

[Vaquero]

so I gather that the Attorney General mentioned is not Alberto 'Hurricane' Gonzales, but the Conn. A.G.?

[FreedomPoster]

Sounds like the 60 Minutes "unintended acceleration" hit on Audi from the 80s all over again.

Confused drivers mash the accelerator, instead of the brake, and afterward insist they were standing on the brakes.

The reality is that with modern cars, the brakes CAN and WILL overpower the engine.

[Vaquero]

Buy American.

[FreedomPoster]

It was a 60 Minutes hit piece (enough said!), and it almost destroyed Audi in the U.S.

[FreedomPoster]

Nope, sorry, Audis had throttle cables back then. They weren't fly-by-wire until 2000 M.Y.

[Jim Noble]

"The incidents I know of with this problem all occur at the exit end of the car wash."

Fool.

Never wash a Jeep.

[IrishMike]

Inspired by the GM pick up truck fuel tank 'explosions'
..... with a little help from M-80's ????

[carumba]

Which is better; a Jeep Grand Cherokee or a Ford POS?

[jaydubya2]

"Yes, it was Audi. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Turns out a bunch of folks couldn't tell the gas pedal from the brake."

I'm not disputing you, but I have a friend who swears the car accelerated while his foot was on the brake. He said there were skid marks to prove it.

[lawdude]

"Ok, maybe it's me, but who doesn't have their foot on the brake when shifting from park or neutral into drive?"

I shift from park to drive in order to move, not stop.

[FreedomPoster]

Whassamatta!? You don't like manufactured "news"!?

[FreedomPoster]

The physics of that are improbable at best.

[FreedomPoster]

Many cars have lockouts now, so you can't shift from P to D without your foot on the brake. Audis damn sure do.

[jaydubya2]

From the Audi article: ""60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a selfstyled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump—just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket."

Old habits...

[mo]

IMHO, there is an attendant in the car as it goes thru the car wash...running, in neutral as it gets pulled thru. As it comes off the carrier, he has to shift to drive to complete the rollout. If the accelerator is unfamiliar, or perhaps close to the brake pedal, and the rollout is slightly downhill...I can see potential for some hairy behavior.

[FreePaul]

Daimler Chrysler, which makes Jeep, does not acknowledge there is a problem.

They don't admit that they have a problem with their Dodge trucks jumping to reverse from park either. It happens but they don't accept blame, just offer a fix.

[Puppage]

I shift from park to drive in order to move, not stop

Cute......Thanks, Capt Obvious

[lawdude]

"Many cars have lockouts now, so you can't shift from P to D without your foot on the brake."

OK, now I unnerstand. Brain fart and too early in the AM b4 coffee!

[dhuffman@awod.com]

VW TDI diesel ECU controls at 950 rpm, starting and idle.

[rvoitier]

Isn't there already a procedure in place for this kind of thing called a recall? Then, the individual(s) could sue.

The idea of a federal investigation is government overkill, imo.

[ltc8k6]

The brakes on a regular street car are far more powerful than the engine.

You can easily hold the car still at full throttle in gear.

You can put the car in gear, hold the throttle to the floor and wait till the car reaches 70mph. While holding the throttle to the floor, with the car still accelerating past 70mph, use your left foot to brake. The car will still stop pretty easily.

Car and Driver did a number of such tests back when Audi owners were complaining, proving that a brake failure at the same time was necessary in order for the driver to be unable to stop the car.

Keeping the throttle to the floor did not increase the stopping distance all that much.

[MikefromOhio]

I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee and it doesn't have anything like this problem and I'll admit, sometimes I don't have my foot on the brake.

Sounds like a dumbarse driver to me.

[Vectorian]

'Buy American.'

I agree, get a nice American Land Rover, not one of those crappy German Jeeps! :D

[Erik Latranyi]

I have a 2006 Commander (same as Grand Cherokee).

It runs great.

People just look for a lawsuit based on how stupid they are.

[IrishMike]

My thoughts.

[Erik Latranyi]

Maybe that's why Jeep is pulling the Grand Cherokee and Liberty from their 2007 line-up.

False information.

[Vaquero]

Land rover....feh