Posted on 06/14/2006 4:03:35 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
Hello -
What part of:
Pence's plan passes HR 4437 first & border must be certified secured by Homeland Security before any guest-worker provision kicks in
do you not understand?
Pence's plan passes HR 4437. Pence's plan secures the border before any guest-worker provision is considered.
You and others obviously do not understand the way Washington works. Pence's plan calls the Senate's bluff. It forces the Senate/Bush administration to voice their support on a guest-worker provision. If they disagree - fine - THEN WE DIG IN OUR HEELS AND REJECT THE SENATE'S REAL AMNESTY PLAN.
I reckon he's right, uh-huh.
There is a problem with the administration. They're hard-headed. Bush wants some type of guest-worker provision. You know how Bush is and when he sets his mind to something. An enforcement-only plan isn't going to pass the Senate and get signed by Bush. Why do you think Pence is offering this plan?
Immigration laws are also obsolete. The whole system needs to be reformed. Pence's plan updates the laws with a free-market approach to it without compromising border security. He is sponsoring another amendment that deals with the anchor baby situation.
You can take 90% now, which secures the border and implements a strictly regulated guest-worker provision, or you can continue griping on the sidelines because you didn't get your 100%, in which the problem continues. Now I agree with you that if the Senate refuses to support the Pence plan, then by all means reject the Senate AMNESTY plan. But it's important to put these RINO a--holes on record, which is what Pence is trying to do.
Ever play poker?
Who gives a rat's weenie about AP push-polls?
Look, you take Tancredo's plan headings, delete its provisions, and claim Pence's is exactly the same. I didn't call you on that because I'm willing to accept your assertions for the sake of not troubling with a provision-by-provision review right now. But you insult me by saying I "obviously do not understand the way Washington works," that "Pence's plan passes HR 4437 first & border must be certified secured by Homeland Security before any guest-worker provision kicks in?" That shows who really doesn't understand how Washington works. Who runs Homeland Security RIGHT NOW? Do you REALLY think he won't instantly certify the border as secure before the work of HR 4437 is even started?
And who says HR 4437 is even close to a solution to our border woes, ESPECIALLY if a guest worker provision is included with Pence's amnesty? It doesn't provide a constitutional amendment as part of the package to end anchor babies, and we know what the result will be there, more of the same wall-hopping to squirt out Mexican 'Americans' and the courts letting them get away with it. Neither, to my understanding, does HR 4437 remove immigration courts and provide for summary deportation of illegals.
No, Pence's plan doesn't "call the Senate's bluff." It puts the Senate plan into play again when it was dead. His raising this "compromise" was purely to raise his own visibility, torpedo Tancredo, and position himself for 2008. We'll see what difference that makes for him, but I'm pretty sure he's now as DOA there as his plan is today.
The House is difficult for me to see an actual pick up and the Senate is impossible. Which vulnurable R's do you think will pull it out...please say Santorum?
October surprise! WMDs discovered by Iraqi Army, and OBL captured the following day. :o)
"[Pence] is sponsoring another amendment that deals with the anchor baby situation...You can take 90% now, which secures the border and implements a strictly regulated guest-worker provision, or you can continue griping on the sidelines because you didn't get your 100%, in which the problem continues."
He can pass that anchor baby amendment first, the guest-worker program he proposes is an amnesty, and worse, it brings half of Mexico here legally if no anchor fix is made first. Just like the wall can be built first, and not certified by Bush, er, Homeland Security, but by plain sight.
See, here's how the immigration situation is different than you think. If I'm in a restaurant and the waiter offers me an instant 90% of my menu choice plus a lump of $#!# for dinner, or I can wait until closing for my order, I'll tell him no thanks, I'll just wait for the 100% of what I want instead of eating $#!#. If I have only a choice between staying at home and eating a crappy peanut butter samwich, or dining at a restaurant that serves me 90% food and 10% $#!#, I'll stick with the samwich. And the Bush/Senate plans are at least 10% grade-A $#!#, as is Pence's, as long as those amnesty provisions are there, and no matter how badly you want the RINOs "on the record," better nothing than eating $#!#.
So f changes that include any amnesty without a wall first, and f Pence's not-an-amnesty-amnesty plan. Pass HR 4437 first, end anchor babies, build a wall, and THEN we'll talk about bringing in the Zulus and ANC members, er, Mexicans, as part of a new apartheid, er, guest worker, scheme.
The president's correct and I've said the same thing, here on FR, for many months.
Spot on!
I didn't delete anything. I posted the link to Tancredo's plan, for those who want to read the plan in its entirety, click on the link. And I used the sub-headings as a comparison to Pence's plan.
But you insult me by saying I "obviously do not understand the way Washington works," that "Pence's plan passes HR 4437 first & border must be certified secured by Homeland Security before any guest-worker provision kicks in?" That shows who really doesn't understand how Washington works.
The administration is not enforcing the laws and has decided to support the Senate's treacherous sell-out that the American people doesn't want. House Republicans aren't going to support the Senate's plan - hence the standoff - but realizes their constituents want something done. Enter the Pence plan which secures the borders and throws a bone to the Senate and Bush administration.
You can howl and gnash the teeth until the cows come home about enforcement-only or praying that the administration enforces the borders before anything else is done. Ain't going to happen. Might as well do some dealing, get the Senate/administration on record over the guest-worker provision, and if they object to the plan, THEN you dig in the heels because it just proves that the Senate/administration want total amnesty above all else.
And who says HR 4437 is even close to a solution to our border woes, ESPECIALLY if a guest worker provision is included with Pence's amnesty?
For the millionth time, the borders must be certified secured before any guest-worker provision is implemented under the Pence plan.
It doesn't provide a constitutional amendment as part of the package to end anchor babies
Pence is working on this via seperate legislation.
and we know what the result will be there, more of the same wall-hopping to squirt out Mexican 'Americans' and the courts letting them get away with it.
What "wall-hopping?" The borders are secured. Those illegals who want a shot at a guest-worker permit MUST go home to apply. The criminal illegals (MS-13 and La Raza types) will be DEPORTED.
Neither, to my understanding, does HR 4437 remove immigration courts and provide for summary deportation of illegals.
Immigration courts would actually be strengthened under the Pence plan. Illegals will self-deport anyway. Once the borders are secured this problem will resolve itself over time.
No, Pence's plan doesn't "call the Senate's bluff." It puts the Senate plan into play again when it was dead.
Pence's plan forces the Senate to make a choice. If they & the administration really support a guest-worker provision, then they can accept the Pence plan or no deal, because there's no fricking way the House is going to pass the Senate's AMNESTY plan when Congressmen asses are on the line this November.
His raising this "compromise" was purely to raise his own visibility, torpedo Tancredo, and position himself for 2008.
Pence is a very unselfish politician. He has no Presidential aspirations. Those are all part of a separate grass-roots effort undertaken by his supporters to get him to run for President, not by him.
Also he has nothing against Tancredo and sees him as an asset rather than a liability.
If we could just get rid of the RINO's in the Senate and replace them with real conservatives.
There will be border enforcement. People are angry over the issue, and Congresscritters are listening. They can only take so many bricks for so long.
The profits from using illegals are just too hugh to stop that continuing supply.
Most House Republicans aren't part of the GOP country-club wing that gets its by Big Business. They're grassroot conservative Republicans, who understand the impact illegals are having on the average family.
This goes for either a R or D held Senate and/or Congress.
See above.
I've made construction company payrolls and the big users of illegals (Construction & food processing) will never give up cheap labor.
These companies don't vote. Taxpayers do, and these companies will stop hiring illegals because the incentive to do so wouldn't be there anymore.
Oh believe me, I'd love to be wrong ......
People need to realize that the laws are obsolete and bureaucratic. There's a huge backlog in confirming employment status at the old INS (now part of DHS). Papers can be easily forged. "Well just secure the F borders..." but Pence's plan DOES secure the borders first but he understands that the entire system needs to be overhauled too. I don't understand why some FReepers are opposed to Pence's plan when it includes HR 4437 already.
I believe President Bush is right. The democrats won't have the time to run with their "New Direction For America" agenda or any inclination to tell everyone just how they will go about doing it, because everyone knows. Their agenda stinks and it will drag this country and it's momentum backward and downward.
Congressional polls are useless, a broad base poll of vote intentions in Congress does not have any meaning of who will control Congress, where it is seat by seat based.
Dems usually do well in polls about voting intentions for the House, but actually have lost seats to Republicans in the elections, the incumbency is a strong factor in Congress elections.
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