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Education Myths
The American Enterprise ^ | July/August 2006 | Jay Greene

Posted on 06/18/2006 5:50:31 AM PDT by Valin

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To: moog
Speaking of private schools and pay....I've had an interesting morning. I received a phone call from an acquaintance of an acquaintance who happens to be the principal at a prestigious private school in my area. The kids pay OVER $20k a year to attend (closer to 15K for elementary). This school wants to add a learning disabled component and a lead reading teacher to be able to provide services for those students who need assistance accessing the general curriculum. Since I have certification in teaching kids with disabilities and a masters in teaching reading he thought I would be the perfect candidate.I listened to his pitch and then asked the "winning" question--"What is the salary?"

I would have to be willing to take a $25,000 pay cut each year. He tried to sweeten the deal by offering my younger daughter reduced tuition, but I reminded him that he had offered her a free tuition two years ago and we had said thanks but no thanks then (my daughter considered their AP and math offerings to be significantly below those of the public school.)

But here's the wild part, he wanted to know if my assistant that I've worked with for over 5 years would be interested in the position!! He was unconcerned that she did not hold a degree. I kind of chuckled and told him she was a free and independent person and if he had her number give her a ring. So I guess he did because she just called me and told me he offered her the same position for $8k less than he offered me. The salary he offered her was actually 2k less than she earns now as a public school assistant.

Interesting huh?

161 posted on 06/20/2006 6:51:14 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: Non-Sequitur

Exactly my point. But there are certain ones that don't want people to have any say in it, but to still take the money.


162 posted on 06/20/2006 6:52:02 AM PDT by moog
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To: wintertime
I suggest tax credits, and insisting that government schools charge tuition on a sliding scale. Eventually, within a decade or two we can completely privatize universal K-12 education.

Tuition for my daughter at the local Catholic high school would run me about $6000 per year. If I can deduct that tuition it would reduce my state income tax by about $360. If you can't afford the tuition without the tax deduction then it's doubtful that you could with it.

The long and the short is that when people talk about tuition vouchers, they're talking about a state subsidy of private schools. And if the state gets into the job of subsidizing private schools then they should have a say in how they are run. And given that say then how long before private schools have many of the same problems public shools have?

163 posted on 06/20/2006 6:57:20 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: SoftballMominVA

Whoa, interesting. People here like to say that the private schools have higher salaries, but they don't--I checked into a private school once and they offered $11 an hour for experienced teachers. They hire mostly college students to teach--my sister taught there for a few years. I don't think teacher salaries will go up dramatically any time soon. Also, the retirement benefits will go down (out of necessity for part of it). We had a LOT of teachers retire this year and now prospective teachers can pick and choose their position. All of our new hires in recent years have been great though. I know a couple this year will be great too. It'll be a chance to start fresh for us. Now if only the one die-hard liberal here would....:)


164 posted on 06/20/2006 6:58:11 AM PDT by moog
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To: moog
Private school salaries can be higher IF one factors in the reduced tuition and one has a passel of kids there. If I had 4 school age kids all getting 1/2 off of a 20K tuition, then the total package would far exceed what I have now.

I was just floored that they offered the same position to someone with a 2 year college degree and 5 years assisting.

165 posted on 06/20/2006 7:05:18 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: SoftballMominVA

I only know of one private school among the many that I've checked with offering higher salaries, but their benefits package isn't great (except for the 401K). We had one school here where the teachers didn't get paid for months because some of the operators were skimming money.


166 posted on 06/20/2006 7:10:08 AM PDT by moog
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To: Sam Cree; ClaireSolt
"Blaming parents is a big excuse teachers started using in the 70's. However the great success of public schools was based on the ability to teach poor immigrant children in NYC. Their parents didn't even speak English. Schools became the great enculturating force, and they taught the children everything about how to be Americans. School was seen as the way up and out. Those children who have weak homes are the ones who need good schools the most. However, they need strong academics, not just free lunches."

I tend to agree with Sam that the "give a damn" factor has decreased in recent years. I'd also suggest that the family structure was stronger at the turn of the century than it has been since the implementation of some of the "Great Society" programs and the "cultural revolution" of the 60s and 70s.

I've also read that in the early part of this century, some of the schools in the immigrant communities were taught in the native language, rather than in English, which I thought was interesting.

I do agree that students in poor schools need strong academics, and it seems that the most successful programs in those areas have a strong academic and a strong disciplinary component.

167 posted on 06/20/2006 7:20:13 AM PDT by Amelia (Education exists to overcome ignorance, not validate it.)
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To: wintertime
I suggest tax credits, and insisting that government schools charge tuition on a sliding scale. Eventually, within a decade or two we can completely privatize universal K-12 education.

The people who most need the government schools now probably don't pay taxes to begin with (or a very minimal amount) and wouldn't be able to pay the tuition, even on a sliding scale.

At one point in our history, parents did pay tuition for their children, but so many people couldn't afford it, and their children were not educated.

168 posted on 06/20/2006 7:23:18 AM PDT by Amelia (Education exists to overcome ignorance, not validate it.)
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To: SoftballMominVA
Private school salaries can be higher IF one factors in the reduced tuition and one has a passel of kids there.

Some of the private schools in this area offer reduced tuition for the children of teachers, and some offer free tuition for those children.

The pay isn't as high, and the insurance, retirement, & other benefits are pretty well non-existent. The teachers I know who have left public school to teach in the private schools had good benefits through their husband's jobs, and the reduced tuition was a big draw, along with the improved discipline in their students and religious component in the education for their children.

169 posted on 06/20/2006 7:37:12 AM PDT by Amelia (Education exists to overcome ignorance, not validate it.)
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To: Amelia

" tend to agree with Sam that the "give a damn" factor has decreased in recent years. I'd also suggest that the family structure was stronger at the turn of the century than it has been since the implementation of some of the "Great Society" programs and the "cultural revolution" of the 60s and 70s" surely this is a result of prosperity, including welfare. But also, the union movement and other changes really changed the attitudes of teachers.


170 posted on 06/20/2006 10:41:37 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: TChad

I also spent many years in school and nice collection of letters. Of curse mine started Dear Mr. & Mrs W This is to inform you that Steven was caught......



:-)


171 posted on 06/20/2006 12:57:30 PM PDT by Valin (http://www.irey.com/)
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To: ClaireSolt
surely this is a result of prosperity, including welfare.

Prosperity weakens family structure? Why then are poorer schools more likely to be failing?

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

But also, the union movement and other changes really changed the attitudes of teachers.

Popular psychology has changed the attitudes of teachers and parents. Punishment and strict discipline declined, and adults have become more concerned about students' rights to "self-expression" and needs for "self-esteem." I don't think any of that has helped.

I don't think it's a simple problem, and I don't think it has one cause. I tend to think there are a number of cultural factors interacting.

172 posted on 06/20/2006 1:08:11 PM PDT by Amelia (Education exists to overcome ignorance, not validate it.)
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To: moog

I've just switched from "blond moments" to "senior moments."


Oh, yea! I guess we can add "old people" to that list of "Open Season on..."


173 posted on 06/20/2006 2:44:29 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: bannie

bald, formerly blond old people season then.


174 posted on 06/20/2006 3:00:06 PM PDT by moog
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To: moog

Ah, now that's another subject:

Bald = GOOD!

8-)


175 posted on 06/20/2006 3:02:59 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: Valin

Excellent Article. The only way you can successfully teach propaganda is for the instructor to be dumb enough to believe it......


176 posted on 06/20/2006 3:12:57 PM PDT by Two-Bits (Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know)
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To: bannie

bald is beautiful

None o fmy relatives are bald.

Boolean algebra lesson--Therefore, we are not beautiful.

OOOPS!!! Wait! My great great grandma was bald and had a thick mustache. Her picture scares away future in-laws sometimes.


177 posted on 06/20/2006 4:29:46 PM PDT by moog
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To: moog

Thinness and youth are beautiful.

Therefore, fat and age are NOT beautiful.

PFFFFFFTTTTTTHHHHHHHHT!

;-)


178 posted on 06/20/2006 6:03:56 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: bannie

Geez, I misspelled moustache.

I think you've been spying on me! I'm the opposite of tall, dark, and handsome--I'm short, light and ugly.


179 posted on 06/20/2006 6:05:46 PM PDT by moog
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To: moog

I was talking about ME!!!

:-o

;-)


180 posted on 06/21/2006 7:52:27 AM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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