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Church mulls 'phrasing' change for Holy Trinity
The Washington Times ^ | June 20, 2006 | Richard Ostling

Posted on 06/20/2006 4:35:44 AM PDT by pageonetoo

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To: Protagoras
Conservatism, OTOH, is rooted in the concept of using violence to enforce what they perceive to be God's will. That's my opinion.

So you aren't a conservative, or are you admitting to using violence?

201 posted on 06/27/2006 9:19:46 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody
So you aren't a conservative, or are you admitting to using violence?

I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility on all issues, everywhere and always.

That is what conservatism should be. Not a movement that enlists government force to achieve political goals.

202 posted on 06/27/2006 9:23:22 AM PDT by Protagoras (("Minimum-wage laws are one of the most powerful tools in the arsenal of racists." - Walter Williams)
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To: Tenacious 1

Good post. Chirst also said that when he came back he came not to bring peace, but a sword. When he talks of the "meek inheriting the earth" he was talking about the time after Satan had been destroyed. The liberals (like many of those so-called Bible Scholars you will see on religious shows broadcast on the History channel) want to destroy the notion that to defeat evil one must fight against it. In this case, the meek inherit a plot of earth six feet under.


203 posted on 06/27/2006 9:24:48 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: cowdog77
where ARE their husbands?

Probably at home sleeping, reading the Sunday paper or sitting on the sofa with the remote. A lot of men think religion is for women and kids. It's no wonder the church has been 'feminized.'

Fortunately, the church I attend now is full of families, and the adult singles are about equal male and female. That hasn't been true of most churches I've attended.

204 posted on 06/27/2006 9:24:56 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Protagoras
I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility on all issues, everywhere and always.

Interesting, but not really an answer to my question.

Since you didn't want to answer the last question, lets try this. Give me an example of when conservatives have used violence to enforce what they believe is 'God's will.'

Please don't bother with examples that are hundreds of years old. That would only show us you haven't opened your eyes recently.

205 posted on 06/27/2006 9:28:10 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia
As a member of a PCUSA congregation, I can affirm that the church has used "alternative phrasing" in worship for a long time. These phrases usually appear in the Statement of Faith, which changes weekly, that we stand to read in unison in the middle of the service. One example of such change in terminology is referring to God as "the God of Abraham and Sarah" instead of the traditional "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".

Another example of gender-exclusive terminology: "as a mother who cradles her suckling child, as a father who runs to welcome the prodigal home, so do you, Lord, embrace us...."

Granted, the "mother-son-and womb" is extreme!

206 posted on 06/27/2006 9:28:55 AM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: MEGoody
Interesting, but not really an answer to my question.

Your question as it relates to conservatism is unanswerable since no one can agree on what the definition of conservatism is. I have told you what I think it should be.

Give me an example of when conservatives have used violence to enforce what they believe is 'God's will.'

Are laws only suggestions, or will they be enforced by violence if people fail to comply?

207 posted on 06/27/2006 9:35:11 AM PDT by Protagoras (("Minimum-wage laws are one of the most powerful tools in the arsenal of racists." - Walter Williams)
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To: Constantine XIII
These types wouldn't be anywhere near the levers of power if the individual believers, all of the members of the body of Christ, were doing their jobs.

Come again? There are many of us who feel helpless in the face of the "fait accompli" hijacking of our church body by the flaming liberals. Nobody asked my opinion if I wanted to recite "Mother, Son and Womb" in my Sunday service. (hehehe, I'd like to see how that nonsense would go over in my congregation.)

208 posted on 06/27/2006 9:35:18 AM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Protagoras
Are laws only suggestions, or will they be enforced by violence if people fail to comply?

I guess if you define 'violence' as being arrested and put in jail, then I'd say the latter is correct.

Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?

209 posted on 06/27/2006 1:48:22 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Ciexyz

Our job is to preach the word of God to the lost.

We haven't been doing our jobs if we don't even notice they are right under our feet. Or in the pulpit. :P


210 posted on 06/27/2006 5:38:38 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: MEGoody
I guess if you define 'violence' as being arrested and put in jail, then I'd say the latter is correct.

Yes, being arrested at gunpoint is violence. Ever had a gun pointed at you? Then you would know what violence is.

And all laws, even those which do not defend the rights of the citizens are enFORCED by violence or the threat thereof. So we agree, right?

Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?

Those are some of the most bizarre questions or leaps to goofy conclusions I have ever seen. Hard to say what would make a person make such statements.

211 posted on 06/27/2006 7:54:12 PM PDT by Protagoras (("Minimum-wage laws are one of the most powerful tools in the arsenal of racists." - Walter Williams)
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To: Protagoras
Yes, being arrested at gunpoint is violence.

Not all arrests are done with guns drawn, so I presume you would agree not all arrests are 'violent'.

Ever had a gun pointed at you? Then you would know what violence is.

No, I've not had a gun pointed at me. Apparently, we had different definitions of violence. I don't consider it violent unless bodily injury occurs.

And all laws, even those which do not defend the rights of the citizens are enFORCED by violence or the threat thereof. So we agree, right?

The most we can agree on is that laws are SOMETIMES enforced using violence. Police don't even always threaten violence. Of course, our definitions of 'threatening violence' could be different too.

Those are some of the most bizarre questions or leaps to goofy conclusions I have ever seen.

Not at all, considering your original statement, which was:

Conservatism, OTOH, is rooted in the concept of using violence to enforce what they perceive to be God's will.

So, the questions are still open. They are:

Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?

If you wish not to answer these questions, don't. But I would have to wonder what you are afraid of revealing by answering them.

212 posted on 06/28/2006 9:35:38 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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