Posted on 06/21/2006 9:47:43 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
IAF chief procurement officer: F35 will replace F16
The Israel Air Force plans is to buy over 100 Lockheed Martin F35s, costing at least $5 billion.
Amnon Barzilai 21 Jun 06 10:15
The Israel Air Force (IAF) is completing its plan to replace its fleet of combat jets, transport planes, and helicopters, ahead of the IDF headquarters workshop for the formulation of its Keshet five-year plan. In an exclusive interview, IAF chief procurement officer Brig.-Gen. Zeev Snir told “Globes” that the key part of the plan was to procure the next-generation US combat jet, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
Snir said the plan was to buy over 100 F-35s, which would gradually replace the IAF’s F-16s.
The F-35 will be built in three configurations: a navy version for use on carriers, a vertical take-off and landing version for the US Marines Corps, and a regular take-off version for the air force. Snir said the IAF would buy the air force version, but was also considering the other two versions. Under the IAF plan, the first F-35s will come into service in the mid-2010s. They will initially replace older F-16 models, and gradually replace the entire fleet. Each F-35 costs $50 million, and the 100-plane deal will cost at least $5 billion.
Snir will reportedly soon go to the US to test the latest model of the C-130 Hercules transport plane (the C-130J). The IAF is considering buying six C-130Js at a cost of $500 million.
Snir said the F-35 was the only combat jet relevant to Israel’s needs, partly because the IAF believes that it is only jet that will be available in the next decade. The US Air Force will also procure F-22 air supremacy fighters over the coming years, but Congress limited the procurement to 180 jets, and the US has no intention of selling the plane to other countries. Snir said, “The IAF would be happy to equip itself with 24 F-22s but the problem at this time is the US refusal to sell the plane, and its $200 million price tag.”
The IAF will complete procurement of 102 F-16Is (known as the “Sufa”, or “Storm” in Israel), built by Lockheed Martin Corp. (NYSE:LMT) in two years. For the past three years, the Ministry of Defense has been negotiating with the Pentagon over procurement of the F-35. However, during the negotiations it became apparent that the Pentagon would not allow the IAF access to the computers that will be installed in the F-35. Access is necessary to upgrade the computers and integrate them with new ordinance, communications, and electronic warfare systems. The Pentagon previously allowed the IAF’s access to computers of the F-15 and F-16.
Snir said, “The interpretation given to the US refusal, making out that this is a great crisis, is utter rubbish.” He said the US rejected similar requests from other air forces interested in procuring the F-35. Even the UK, which is investing $2 billion in the program, was denied access, and only after last week’s meeting between US President George W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair did the Pentagon allow the RAF access to the F-35 computer.
Snir adds, “It should be remembered that Israel has invested only $35 million in the F-35, whereas Italy and the Netherlands have invested almost $1 billion each.” He says the US is refusing to grant access to the F-35 computer because its architecture is different. He stressed that Israel obtained access to the F-15 and F-16 computers only after their development was completed. He said there was no dispute with the US that IAF F-35s would include Israeli communications and electronic warfare technologies and missiles developed by Rafael Armament Development Authority Ltd.
Another large IAF program is a $100 million upgrade of Sikorsky CH-53 Super Stallion helicopters (known in the IAF as the Yasur) to extend their operational lifespan by 20 years. The IAF aviation maintenance unit is carrying out this program, which is scheduled to be completed in two years.
How long will it be until they sell this tech to the Chinese?
How long will it be until you sell the hardware to Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia?
There is a real big difference between selling the technology to our staunchest ally in the world (more than Britian!) vs selling it to China.
By "they" I meant Israel. They’ve sold US military tech to the Chinese before. Oh yeah and they've attack our ships and spied on us too.
They're a hell of an ally.
doesnt matter. Israeli pilots are the best.
Staunchest ally in the world? More than the UK? We guarantee Israel's survival and they are by far, the biggest recipient of US assistance, over $100 billion since they became a nation. What has Israel done for the US? Pollard, the USS Liberty, selling our technology, etc.
China Scolds U.S. for Blocking Israeli Arms Sale
When the Navy EP-3E surveillance plane was forced to land in China after a Chinese F-8 fighter flew into its propeller, photos show Israeli built Python 3 missiles under the fighter's wings.
from your pictures, it looks like this thing is aerodynamically unstable that only a computer making constant changes would be able to fly.
that makes the computer the heart of this thing.
I suspect you can copy the airframe exactly but without the computer, you have a flying coffin.
How many ships have they attacked?
Israeli P-3 missiles sold at a time when the PLA was legally buying Rolls Royce & General Electric aircraft & ship engines,avionics & MK-46 torpedoes.
You gurantee Israel's survival by selling state-of-the-art weaponry to its worst enemies, the nations that attacked Israel more than once in the last century. All the money you give to Israel are in the form of repayable loans and government guarantees, for which money Israel is supposed to buy weapons systems from the US manufactirers. And thanks to your bear hugs, Israel's territory is shrinking visibly every time you guarantee her survival, compiments of Carter, Clinton and Bush (who happen to be US presidents).
What will they do, use some of the aid we provide them to purchase the planes? No, probably not, that would imply actual payment. They will get top dollar for them from one of our foes. We shouldn't sell/give them squat until they get with the program.
Ships is plural, USS Liberty is singular.
The Liberty was flying an America flag in INTERNATIONAL waters. She wasn't mistaken for anything.
Israel, the Central Intelligence Agency and National Security Agency all held the same position on the incident; that it was a case of mistaken identity and was entirely due to error. Israel contends that it was assured by the United States that no U.S. ships were in the area, and that its air and naval forces wrongly identified Liberty at various stages as either a Russian intelligence ship that was providing information to the Arabs, or as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir.
Critics assert that the attack was a premeditated and deliberate Israeli attack on the American intelligence ship. They say that it is not credible that the Liberty could be mistaken for the El Quseir which was a quarter its size. Critics include some of the surviving crew members, such as James Ennes, and some former U.S. government officials, including then-CIA director Richard Helms and then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk as well as Admiral Thomas Hinman Moorer, former Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The United States and Israel exchanged diplomatic notes after several inquiries. Though the United States never officially accepted the Israeli explanation, it agreed to accept indemnities of $13 million, for damage and casualties.
Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.
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Gawd, that was FORTY STINKING YEARS AGO in the middle of a WAR. Gee, how many "friendly fire" and other military mistakes have WE made in the last forty years?
The fact that the anti-Israel crowd has to reach back that far to back up their idiocy is very telling...
Ok how about the Pollard case or Isreal assisting China with weapons tech?
longer than it takes for you to post this anti-Israel BS.
Last I checked UK was in the EU
"European leaders faced embarrassment yesterday when figures showed a doubling in approvals of arms sales to China, despite an embargo imposed after Tiananmen Square.
Amnesty International said it would closely monitor the conduct of Britain, France and Italy, Europe's largest arms exporters.
The warning came after figures showed the value of EU licences to sell arms to China increased from €210m in 2002 to €416m in 2003, or from £146m to £289m. France increased its share from €105m to €171m, while Britain increased its share from €79m to €112m, or from £55m to £78m. The licence value indicates the volume of sales officially sanctioned. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,,1394409,00.html
Rice Warns Europe Not to Sell Advanced Weaponry to China
Military Balance At Risk, Allies Told
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51181-2005Mar20.html
Key points
• US rapprochement with EU threatened by row over arms sales to China
• Attempt to lift 1989 arms sales embargo seen as challenge to US interests
• Bush to make concessions on global warming while EU offers help in Iraq
Key quote
"As both Japan and the US begin to seriously prepare for a real war on the Taiwan Strait, it is simply sickening that European leaders are proposing to take any steps that would help to enable a dictatorship to kill democracy" - Richard Fisher, Washington analyst
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1265&id=194592005
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/hl866.cfm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GC25Ad03.html
http://www.jamestown.org/email-to-friend.php?article_id=23593
For Egypt, which receives $1.3b. in annual US military grants, most of its weapons were purchased from the United States ($5.6b.). Most of this has been for military platforms and weapons, including advanced attack helicopters and fast missile vessels.
http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/editions/israel/2005/09/egypt-biggest-arms-buyer-in-middle.php
Army and Marine Corps forces that battled terrorist insurgents in the Iraqi cities of Fallujah and Mosul employed urban warfare tactics gleaned from the combat experience of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). In the last two years, hundreds of U.S. military personnel have trained in the Negev desert at Israel’s Adam counter insurgency urban warfare training facility. Meanwhile, the U.S. military has completed the construction of a number of simulated Arab villages at the U.S. Army’s Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) at Fort Polk, Louisiana.
http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1701/documentid/2774/history/3,2360,655,1701,2774
Europe is much richer than Israel. Europe is not forced to spend 10% of its GDP on defense. Europe gets protected by US dollars and soldiers while not even carrying a fraction of the share of its own defense. Europe is not on the frontline of the fight against Islamist terrorists. Euroipe is not located in a now critical region of the world. Europe does not face an existential threat to its existence from numerous surrounding countries. Yet you single out Israel as traitorous to the US. So what is your agenda in slamming Israel here?
Not true. Here is a breakdown of the assistance we have provided: U.S. Assistance to Israel
Out of the total $100 billion in asistance, we have given in the form of grants: $51 billion in military assistance, $31 billion in economic assistance, $1 billion in food assistance, and $1.5 billion in resettlement assistance.
Israel also receives other benefits like being allowed to use 25% of its allotment to subsidize its own defense industry. It also receives its entire appropriation at the beginning of the fiscal year, unlike other recipients of our aid who get the money quarterly. Israel also doesn't have to account for how its money is used.
The US gives each Israeli an annual subsidy of $500 despite the fact that Israel is a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income equal to South Korea or Spain.
OK, even if does not show how much money was repaid and much was paid to US defence manufactirers, all those moneys were part of deals brokered by US presidents. First and foremost, the Camp David accords, paying Israel $3 bln with $2.2 bln going to Egypt. Israel had to give up the Sinai and Taba, which are several times the size of Israel. How much does that cost?
If you’re arguing that America has several treacherous “allies”, then I couldn’t agree more. But that fact doesn’t mean that Israel has not behaved treacherously towards America.
But for BILLIONS in America aid, Israel likely would have long since been part of Egypt or Syria. In return, they give us Pollard, the Liberty and arm our enemies.
BTW disapproval of Israeli behavior does not make one anti-Semitic.
I take issue with the characterization that Israel is "our staunchest" ally. It isn't. We have no treaties or alliances with Israel similar to NATO, where an attack against one is an attack against all. Israel is an ally, but certainly not our staunchest or most important. </p>
US buys $300 bln worth of goods from China annually, which of course goes to better the lives of the Chinese people, not to build the military and advance their space program.
When Israel sells American military technology to other nations it is either with American permission or the equipment has been altered so that it is less effective.
Don't believe everything you read. As everything is misinformation.
Israel won several wars even when America refused to help. And Israel did not become part of Syria or Egypt. Vice versa, part of Egypt and Syria became part of Israel.
And they did it with US weapons (and French and British)
The problem is that Israel turns around and whores it out to China for a buck.
Was there ever any doubt?
some comments on this post do not reflect your own decisive logic.
"BTW disapproval of Israeli behavior does not make one anti-Semitic."
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Differentiating legitimate criticism of Israel from the so-called new anti-Semitism.
By Natan Sharansky
'snip'
I propose the following test for differentiating legitimate criticism of Israel from anti-Semitism. The 3D test, as I call it, is not a new one. It merely applies to the new anti-Semitism the same criteria that for centuries identified the different dimensions of classical anti-Semitism.
'snip'
DOUBLE STANDARDS
http://www.antisemitismus.net/europa/sharansky-1.htm
I haven't heard your vociferous criticism of Europe or the UK. Are you saying they are "treacherous"? Spell it out. Are you against the US letting the UK have its jet technology as you have expressed here on Israel? Stop hiding behind vague statements like -- "America has several treacherous “allies.”
You had no trouble spelling it out when it came to your perception of Israel's "treachery."
At the same time (as the link provided by another poster to me states) the Israelis had warned to get out of the area, and we refused.
This is what I had already suggested as a possibility.
None of us really know the truth, but I am sure that is the way it happened.
"I take issue with the characterization that Israel is "our staunchest" ally. It isn't. We have no treaties or alliances with Israel similar to NATO, where an attack against one is an attack against all. Israel is an ally, but certainly not our staunchest or most important. "
I never said "staunchest." I do say Israel is in a uniquely strategic location given current world events. I do say that unlike every other country in that region they are a stable democracy with Western Judeao/Christian values and are a loyal US ally.
The NATO treaty benefits Europe not the US. We defend them. We pay for the lion's share of Europe's defense while they spend on their socialist nanny states.
US spending defending Europe dwarfs all US spending on Israel. Know why you don't see the numbers? Because spending on Israel is labelled Foreign. Spending on Europe is buried in our own national defense budget.
So what's worse - betrayal by countries with whom you have treaties and whose defense you have secured with huge expenditures of blood and treasure or, per you, betrayal by a country with whom you have no treaties and no expenditure of US lives?
If you think there is any comparison at all between the US selling military equipment to those countries and Israel selling military equipment that contains US technology to Red China, then you are simply deluded.
You need us. We don't need you.
If you want to cry wolf, France with its Atomic weapons is now the most dangerous country on this planet, with a Muslim population that will in a few years be in majority and control the country, I wonder how many french muslimtechs play with a-bombs every day, just remember that Israel is on our side but the French?
"This thread concerns arms sales to Israel, not Europe. I wouldn't sell our latest arms the Europe either, but that's OFF TOPIC."
Reading is your friend. From the posted article:
"Even the UK, which is investing $2 billion in the program, was denied access, and only after last week’s meeting between US President George W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair did the Pentagon allow the RAF access to the F-35 computer."
That's not what the Israelis are saying. Does that make sense to you if that indeed is the case? A US ship in international waters flying an American flag and the Israelis attack it repeatedly killing 34 and wounding 172. What kind of ally would do that to a country [the US] that has supported them ever since they became a nation? What threat did the Liberty pose to Israel?
"You need us. We don't need you."
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Today on Ivry's embassy office wall is a large black-and-white photograph taken by satellite 10 years after the raid, at the time of the Gulf War. It shows the wreckage of the reactor complex, which is still surrounded by a high, thick wall that was supposed to protect it. Trees are growing where the reactor dome had been.
The picture has this handwritten inscription. "For Gen. David Ivry, with thanks and appreciation for the outstanding job he did on the Iraqi nuclear program in 1981 -- which made our job much easier in Desert Storm." The author of the inscription signed it: "Dick Cheney, Sec. of Defense 1989-93."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A21270-2001Oct31¬Found=true
Let's see what happens with Iran. Don't mistake Israel being forced to keep a low profile because of Muslim hatred, for a lack of involvement all over that region. That would be naive.
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