Skip to comments.Liars
Posted on 06/22/2006 2:24:59 AM PDT by croak
The antiwar Lefts claim that Bush lied about Saddam Hussein possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction has itself been proven a lie.
Last night Sen. Rick Santorum, R-PA, and Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-MI, released the declassified overview of a report produced by the National Ground Intelligence Center, the group that has searched Iraq for Saddam Husseins WMDs since 2004. Its stunning revelation: there were WMDs, after all.
Since 2003, Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions, which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf war chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf war chemical munitions are assessed to still exist. That means in addition to the 500, there are filled and unfilled munitions still believed to exist within the country.
Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-MI, noted this is significant, since the impression that the Iraqi Survey Group left with the American people was they didn't find anything.
The report further justified President Bushs rationale for toppling Saddam: he had WMDs that he may have transferred to terrorists.
Pre-Gulf War Iraqi chemical weapons could be sold on the Black Market. Use of these weapons by terrorist or insurgent groups would have implications for coalition forces in Iraq. The possibility of use outside of Iraq cannot be ruled out. The most likely munitions remaining are Sarin- and mustard [gas]-filled projectiles.
For emphasis, Sen. Santorum added, And I underscore filled. Ready-to-use WMDs apparently dot the Iraqi map. As evidence continues to pour in about Saddams connections to al-Qaeda, Zarqawi, and other terrorist networks prior to the invasion, the nightmare scenario writes itself.
(Excerpt) Read more at frontpagemag.com ...
(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")
This has been reported over and over and nobody cares. To the world there never will be WMDs. There was an Iraqi general who wrote a book about how stuff was taken to Syria. There is a whole slew of information about that and where it was taken. It doesn't matter. Nobody is listening. And Bush won't detail what they found.
Liberals don't care. The Big Lie was shouted often and loud enough so that it's a given, along with 'Bush avoided duty in Vietnam, Bush is stupid,' etc.. The MSM will attempt to avoid discussion of WMD's except on Fox where Moira Laisson dismissed them as 'degraded, unusable, so what'.
A bigger nightmare for the MSM is the horrific torture/murder of those two US servicemen. They're terrified it will enrage Americans to the point where dem's 'get out of Iraq now' won't work with voters. If the admin. takes the gloves off and fights the Iraq war the way it should be fought, if they release more information, more sites of WMD's, sets up photo ops of what they've found, the press won't be able to ignore it although they'll say it doesn't matter...the amounts were too small, weren't used, blah, blah, blah.
Dems think the only thing republicans have as a winning issue is national security/military might. If they can turn this into Vietnam redux, they think they'll retake congress and the WH with the connivance of the MSM. They're traitors and they don't care.
It IS frustrating that the left has their collective heads in the sand on this. I wish they had better sense. The world would be a little safer.
You should see the Google news search for WMD right now... a slew of liberal activist groups burying all the "real media" articles... it's scary. First time I've seen that happen and I use google news search a lot... CNN buried the news in another story -- The Wash Post is saying; "These are not the WMD you were looking for..."
"If the admin. takes the gloves off and fights the Iraq war the way it should be fought, if they release more information, more sites of WMD's, sets up photo ops of what they've found, the press won't be able to ignore it although they'll say it doesn't matter..."
I agree with you on that - I believe our military and this administration needs to be more pro-active in getting this information out to the public -- talk about it constantly... say "I told you so" a little more often now...
Tony Snow needs to fill the Press Room with pics of what's been found - better yet - offer the press up-close personal views of some of the canisters and see if they are willing to take a sniff -- after all this stuff is all harmless now that it's so old, right? (o:
This isn't even on the radar at DU, as far as I can tell. They're still hung up on threads about why Bush is evil, why he hates the American people so much, which syndrome of alcohol abuse he is exhibiting, etc. That place truly is a mad house.
The same could be said re: Bill & Hillary. Look at all the stuff that's out there about the two of them. There's a whole slew of information and it doesn't matter.
They'd say so what if NYC & DC were nuked on the same day... and then they'd blame Bush.
Alan Colmes on H&C said they were the "wrong WMD" and were "all pre-1991 and unusable" and that this report doesn't mean anything, implying that the release was for a Santorum election boost. The impression I had from the 2 congress-critters was that they found out about this report from an outside-the-government source, and only got access to it because they asked specifically for this report.
They said that Intelligence will only provide any information to congress if you know exactly what to ask for. That makes me wonder if part of the issue isn't so much the preference for 'closedness' of the Bush administration, but that the Intelligence Agencies are playing the same game with this kind of info they are with translation - 'we don't have the resources, that report isn't ready to be released, we don't have enough info to put together the pieces of the puzzle', etc.
The Left are testing the resolve of the Right.
You will never 'convince' the Left of anything, since reason is not part of the Liberal mindset.
You will only RIDICULE the Left incessantly until they drop the subject.
Ridicule the sheep Left about WMD, and they will bleet something else.
The Dems have been having a very hard time lately. The bad news just keeps on coming.
Don't worry, those weapons were old and degraded. If so, have the msm go into a room and open them.
Interesting wording. I believe only mustard nerve agent degrades, while sarin is still as potent as it was when made.
Can we come up with a stupid slogan like their's?
Dems lied, now they're fried?
I'm sure there's a better one out there but just can't use my brain that well before coffee. :)
It enraged people around here! ALOT of the cars have flags on them again, I saw 4 bumper stickers that neighbors added that say NUKE Mecca, people have put their flags back up outside their houses...all this started on the day we found the soldiers. Reminds me of 9/11 again and how many cars had flags and ribbons on them.
Efforts to Lengthen Shelf Life
# According to the CIA, nations such as Iraq have tried to overcome the problem of sarin's short shelf life in two ways: The shelf life of unitary (i.e., pure) sarin may be lengthened by increasing the purity of the precursor and intermediate chemicals and refining the production process.
# Developing binary chemical weapons, where the two precursor chemicals are stored separately in the same Shell (projectile)|shell, and mixed to form the agent immediately before or when the shell is in flight. This approach has the dual benefit of making the issue of shelf life irrelevant and greatly increasing the safety of sarin munitions
That is scary.
A good start. Certainly more of these found than has been reported, and it shows Saddam didn't destroy his old stockpiles.
Still, we need to find what was moved to Syria and the Bekka Valley. Those will be the nails in the coffin of the 'Bush Lied' crowd.
I read your post with interest and then your tag line (My job is to manage and negotiate chaos). So basic "null void" or marketing 102 "nuttin' happens till its sold!" ?
From two years ago:
According to UNMOVIC's Working Document of March 6, 2003:
Iraq primarily filled 155-mm projectiles [the same caliber as the IED in question] with high purity Mustard that remained stable during long-term storage. However, Iraq also provided some information and documents on the development and tests of 155-mm binary nerve agent (Sarin and Cycolosarin) projectiles. UNSCOM found several examples of these munitions at the Muthanna State Establishment. Iraq stated that, despite positive test results, no industrial-scale production of binary 155-mm projectiles occurred. . . . Iraq has provided a number of explanations regarding the disposition of approximately 550 unaccounted for Mustard filled 155-mm projectiles. UNSCOM, having determined that the Mustard . . . was likely to remain stable for a long period treated this issue as a serious matter.
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The UNMOVIC document makes clear that Iraq had provided no evidence to support its claim that its binary nerve agent projectile--the exact type detonated in Baghdad--had not been moved to large-scale production. If UNMOVIC suspected the Iraqis of lying about moving their binary projectiles into large-scale production, should we simply assume these shells, and at least 550 high purity Mustard shells, were merely lost in the process of a preemptive large-scale destruction? Furthermore, besides UNMOVIC's clear concern for the potency and long shelf-life of Iraq's Mustard gas, the only purpose of designing a binary projectile is to improve shelf-life by separating the nerve agent into two stable precursors. After consulting with U.N. experts, Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for UNMOVIC, was not comfortable speculating on the shelf-life of such shells--shouldn't the Times be uncomfortable as well?
STILL, the foolishness at the Times pales in comparison to that displayed by everyone's favorite arms inspector, Scott Ritter (for background on "Saddam Hussein's American Apologist," see Stephen F. Hayes's cover story in the November 19, 2001 issue of THE WEEKLY STANDARD). Ritter has his own theory on the source of the sarin shell, which he outlined in the Christian Science Monitor on May 21, 2004:
Iraq declared that it had produced 170 of these base-bleed [binary] sarin artillery shells as part of a research and development program that never led to production. Ten of these shells were tested using inert fill--oil and colored water. Ten others were tested in simulated firing using the sarin precursors.
And 150 of these shells, filled with Sarin precursors, were live-fired at an artillery range south of Baghdad. A 10 percent dud rate among artillery shells isn't unheard of--and even greater percentages can occur. So there is a good possibility that at least 15 of these sarin artillery shells failed and lie forgotten in the Iraq desert, waiting to be picked up by any unsuspecting insurgent looking for raw material from which to construct an IED [improvised explosive device].
Ritter's theory is as bizarre as it is illogical. For one thing, it is contingent upon absolute faith in the word of the Iraqis. In other words, if they said they only produced 170 shells, then they only produced 170. On matters of national security, as President Reagan famously said, trust, but verify. UNMOVIC and UNSCOM were never able to verify these numbers. Ritter treats them as if they had the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.
Ritter then claims that a likely 10 percent dud rate would leave approximately 15 unexploded shells in the desert. This scenario seems implausible for two reasons. Out of 15 duds, most would surely penetrate the soft sand and dirt of the desert, the impact craters covered over by the winds of time so that they would not be "waiting to be picked up." But say a few were not immediately swallowed by the desert. If the assumption is that these 150 shells were being tested, surely the scientists and technicians would be curious as to why the duds had malfunctioned. Would they have not ventured out to discover the outcome of their tests? A well-placed source with the U.S. military in Iraq confirmed that the shell had, in fact, not been fired, but was almost certainly removed from one of the dozens of unsecured arms caches that dot the country. If the shell wasn't fired, then it wasn't a dud. Ritter's theory, based in his unwavering faith in the Iraqi military and the off-chance that insurgents, combing the desert for duds rather than harvesting the country's overflowing arms caches, stumbled upon this magic shell, is suspect.
The detonation of the sarin shell should not be dismissed. It may yet be proved that Saddam's biological and chemical weapons programs were, in 2003, too diminished to be considered a major threat to national security. But, at present, such conclusions are based on nothing more than wishful thinking. If this shell really was the only WMD in Iraq, it will be a welcome blessing.
Michael Goldfarb is a staff assistant at The Weekly Standard.
Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.
"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
Binary VX program
During Powell's U.N. presentation, he stated that the Iraqi regime had lied repeatedly regarding its weapons programs, saying that it took Iraq years to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent VX.
Powell said, "The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamal, Saddam Hussein's late son-in-law."
Regarding Iraq's VX program, the documents indicate that the Iraqis "finished work on binary that had a long shelf life."
Kamal states they were able to stabilize VX: "They were able to do it by splitting VX into binary. Bombs consisted of two parts, and they made it during the last days of the Iran-Iraq war. So the components were only mixed when fired."
The Left lives on another planet. It has a fair climate, and is the third one from our sun, but in no way can it be said they live on Earth.
Ritter's position is neither bizarre nor illogical. It is the position of a man who is undergoing blackmail, or who has been paid off.
Remember the phrase, "None dared call it treason"?
People dislike levying such an accusation, so I expect I shall never learn what really happened.
I wonder how many times you can punch a DU'r in a nose before he pees his pants?
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Mr. Common Sense.
Mr. Sense had been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such value lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm
and that life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn)and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge).
His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. - Reports of a six -year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Mr. Sense declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, she spilled a bit in her lap, and was awarded a huge financial settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is
survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
In addition, the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq could have been given to terrorists. However, we are not saying the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq mean the CIA estimated were correct. We're just saying the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq prove Saddam was lying all along. In fact, the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were never found during 12 years of inspections. UN inspectors are capable of verfying destruction of weapons, not for finding hiddne ones.
A lot of independent-minded Americans will say: "500? Close enough. Dems lied, not Bush"
The Wash Post is saying; "These are not the WMD you were looking for..."
And I am getting really sick and tired of the moving of the goal posts. These are dangerous shells that Saddam could have used on coalition troops, on the people of Kuwait and again on the Kurds during Gulf War two. He was suppose to get rid of them and this proves he did not!
Exactly!!! LOL -- Ugh this is so frustrating. The left is refusing to admit the fact that these discoveries prove that Saddam was breaking the rules, had chemical weapons, and lied about it. It doesn't matter if this was the WMD we went to war for or not frankly. It still proves part of the left's equation false.