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Liars ^

Posted on 06/22/2006 2:24:59 AM PDT by croak

The antiwar Left’s claim that “Bush lied” about Saddam Hussein possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction has itself been proven a lie.

Last night Sen. Rick Santorum, R-PA, and Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-MI, released the declassified overview of a report produced by the National Ground Intelligence Center, the group that has searched Iraq for Saddam Hussein’s WMDs since 2004. Its stunning revelation: there were WMDs, after all.

Since 2003, Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions, which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf war chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf war chemical munitions are assessed to still exist. That means in addition to the 500, there are filled and unfilled munitions still believed to exist within the country.

Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-MI, noted this is significant, since “the impression that the Iraqi Survey Group left with the American people was they didn't find anything.”

The report further justified President Bush’s rationale for toppling Saddam: he had WMDs that he may have transferred to terrorists.

Pre-Gulf War Iraqi chemical weapons could be sold on the Black Market. Use of these weapons by terrorist or insurgent groups would have implications for coalition forces in Iraq. The possibility of use outside of Iraq cannot be ruled out. The most likely munitions remaining are Sarin- and mustard [gas]-filled projectiles.

For emphasis, Sen. Santorum added, “And I underscore ‘filled.’” Ready-to-use WMDs apparently dot the Iraqi map. As evidence continues to pour in about Saddam’s connections to al-Qaeda, Zarqawi, and other terrorist networks prior to the invasion, the nightmare scenario writes itself.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bushlied; iraq; wmd
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To: Oilfield

That is scary.

21 posted on 06/22/2006 4:50:02 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: croak

A good start. Certainly more of these found than has been reported, and it shows Saddam didn't destroy his old stockpiles.

Still, we need to find what was moved to Syria and the Bekka Valley. Those will be the nails in the coffin of the 'Bush Lied' crowd.

22 posted on 06/22/2006 4:50:43 AM PDT by Reform4Bush
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To: Oilfield

I read your post with interest and then your tag line (My job is to manage and negotiate chaos). So basic "null void" or marketing 102 "nuttin' happens till its sold!" ?

23 posted on 06/22/2006 4:51:27 AM PDT by SIRTRIS
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To: croak

From two years ago:

According to UNMOVIC's Working Document of March 6, 2003:

Iraq primarily filled 155-mm projectiles [the same caliber as the IED in question] with high purity Mustard that remained stable during long-term storage. However, Iraq also provided some information and documents on the development and tests of 155-mm binary nerve agent (Sarin and Cycolosarin) projectiles. UNSCOM found several examples of these munitions at the Muthanna State Establishment. Iraq stated that, despite positive test results, no industrial-scale production of binary 155-mm projectiles occurred. . . . Iraq has provided a number of explanations regarding the disposition of approximately 550 unaccounted for Mustard filled 155-mm projectiles. UNSCOM, having determined that the Mustard . . . was likely to remain stable for a long period treated this issue as a serious matter.

Page 2 of 2 < Back

The UNMOVIC document makes clear that Iraq had provided no evidence to support its claim that its binary nerve agent projectile--the exact type detonated in Baghdad--had not been moved to large-scale production. If UNMOVIC suspected the Iraqis of lying about moving their binary projectiles into large-scale production, should we simply assume these shells, and at least 550 high purity Mustard shells, were merely lost in the process of a preemptive large-scale destruction? Furthermore, besides UNMOVIC's clear concern for the potency and long shelf-life of Iraq's Mustard gas, the only purpose of designing a binary projectile is to improve shelf-life by separating the nerve agent into two stable precursors. After consulting with U.N. experts, Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for UNMOVIC, was not comfortable speculating on the shelf-life of such shells--shouldn't the Times be uncomfortable as well?

STILL, the foolishness at the Times pales in comparison to that displayed by everyone's favorite arms inspector, Scott Ritter (for background on "Saddam Hussein's American Apologist," see Stephen F. Hayes's cover story in the November 19, 2001 issue of THE WEEKLY STANDARD). Ritter has his own theory on the source of the sarin shell, which he outlined in the Christian Science Monitor on May 21, 2004:

Iraq declared that it had produced 170 of these base-bleed [binary] sarin artillery shells as part of a research and development program that never led to production. Ten of these shells were tested using inert fill--oil and colored water. Ten others were tested in simulated firing using the sarin precursors.

And 150 of these shells, filled with Sarin precursors, were live-fired at an artillery range south of Baghdad. A 10 percent dud rate among artillery shells isn't unheard of--and even greater percentages can occur. So there is a good possibility that at least 15 of these sarin artillery shells failed and lie forgotten in the Iraq desert, waiting to be picked up by any unsuspecting insurgent looking for raw material from which to construct an IED [improvised explosive device].

Ritter's theory is as bizarre as it is illogical. For one thing, it is contingent upon absolute faith in the word of the Iraqis. In other words, if they said they only produced 170 shells, then they only produced 170. On matters of national security, as President Reagan famously said, trust, but verify. UNMOVIC and UNSCOM were never able to verify these numbers. Ritter treats them as if they had the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

Ritter then claims that a likely 10 percent dud rate would leave approximately 15 unexploded shells in the desert. This scenario seems implausible for two reasons. Out of 15 duds, most would surely penetrate the soft sand and dirt of the desert, the impact craters covered over by the winds of time so that they would not be "waiting to be picked up." But say a few were not immediately swallowed by the desert. If the assumption is that these 150 shells were being tested, surely the scientists and technicians would be curious as to why the duds had malfunctioned. Would they have not ventured out to discover the outcome of their tests? A well-placed source with the U.S. military in Iraq confirmed that the shell had, in fact, not been fired, but was almost certainly removed from one of the dozens of unsecured arms caches that dot the country. If the shell wasn't fired, then it wasn't a dud. Ritter's theory, based in his unwavering faith in the Iraqi military and the off-chance that insurgents, combing the desert for duds rather than harvesting the country's overflowing arms caches, stumbled upon this magic shell, is suspect.

The detonation of the sarin shell should not be dismissed. It may yet be proved that Saddam's biological and chemical weapons programs were, in 2003, too diminished to be considered a major threat to national security. But, at present, such conclusions are based on nothing more than wishful thinking. If this shell really was the only WMD in Iraq, it will be a welcome blessing.

Michael Goldfarb is a staff assistant at The Weekly Standard.

24 posted on 06/22/2006 4:51:38 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Kay Ludlow
From the Fox News Report:

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

25 posted on 06/22/2006 4:53:44 AM PDT by zeebee
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To: croak

Binary VX program

During Powell's U.N. presentation, he stated that the Iraqi regime had lied repeatedly regarding its weapons programs, saying that it took Iraq years to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent VX.

Powell said, "The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamal, Saddam Hussein's late son-in-law."

Regarding Iraq's VX program, the documents indicate that the Iraqis "finished work on binary that had a long shelf life."

Kamal states they were able to stabilize VX: "They were able to do it by splitting VX into binary. Bombs consisted of two parts, and they made it during the last days of the Iran-Iraq war. So the components were only mixed when fired."

26 posted on 06/22/2006 4:57:04 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: croak


27 posted on 06/22/2006 4:57:20 AM PDT by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: goldstategop
The Left is not going to admit it lied. Kerry, Reid and Pelosi are not going to change their minds on account of this revelation.

The Left lives on another planet. It has a fair climate, and is the third one from our sun, but in no way can it be said they live on Earth.

28 posted on 06/22/2006 4:59:32 AM PDT by Lazamataz (First we beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them.)
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To: Raycpa
Ritter's theory is as bizarre as it is illogical.

Ritter's position is neither bizarre nor illogical. It is the position of a man who is undergoing blackmail, or who has been paid off.

29 posted on 06/22/2006 5:00:41 AM PDT by Lazamataz (First we beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them.)
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To: Oilfield
The light bird said that some of the documents prove treasonous activities and could well cause political upheaval around the world.

Remember the phrase, "None dared call it treason"?

People dislike levying such an accusation, so I expect I shall never learn what really happened.

30 posted on 06/22/2006 5:02:42 AM PDT by Lazamataz (First we beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them.)
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To: Hardastarboard

I wonder how many times you can punch a DU'r in a nose before he pees his pants?

31 posted on 06/22/2006 5:31:15 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: Lazamataz

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Mr. Common Sense.

Mr. Sense had been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such value lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm
and that life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn)and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge).

His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. - Reports of a six -year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Mr. Sense declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, she spilled a bit in her lap, and was awarded a huge financial settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is
survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

32 posted on 06/22/2006 5:38:12 AM PDT by croak
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To: croak
The number 500 is important. The Administration should explain repeatedly that the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq are not from the newly-invigorated chemical weapons program the CIA said existed. In fact, the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq are dangerous and, in their prime could have killed xx thousand people.

In addition, the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq could have been given to terrorists. However, we are not saying the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq mean the CIA estimated were correct. We're just saying the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq prove Saddam was lying all along. In fact, the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were never found during 12 years of inspections. UN inspectors are capable of verfying destruction of weapons, not for finding hiddne ones.

A lot of independent-minded Americans will say: "500? Close enough. Dems lied, not Bush"

33 posted on 06/22/2006 8:13:23 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: LibertyRocks

The Wash Post is saying; "These are not the WMD you were looking for..."

MEDIA: "Let me see your WMD."

LEFT: "You don't need to see this WMD."

MEDIA: "We don't need to see this WMD."

LEFT: "These aren't the WMD's you're looking for."

MEDIA: "These aren't the WMD's we're looking for."

LEFT: "We can go about our business."

MEDIA: "You can go about your business."

LEFT: "Move along."

MEDIA: "Move along! Move along!"

/Star Wars

34 posted on 06/22/2006 8:45:22 AM PDT by Christian4Bush (The Rat Party's goal is to END the conflict, not WIN the conflict...should be the other way around.)
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To: zeebee
Interesting. Last night it was an 'anonymous defense department official' saying that this was nothing new. Today it's a defense department official with the "official administration response", but the official is un-named...
35 posted on 06/22/2006 10:03:48 AM PDT by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: Kay Ludlow
This is crazy as I know the binary mixture for the sarin gas shells will stay around sor sometime. If the terrorists ever get their hands on these shells and smuggle them out of the country or properly fire them to get the binaries to mix .... well it won't be good.

And I am getting really sick and tired of the moving of the goal posts. These are dangerous shells that Saddam could have used on coalition troops, on the people of Kuwait and again on the Kurds during Gulf War two. He was suppose to get rid of them and this proves he did not!

36 posted on 06/22/2006 11:57:36 AM PDT by hawkaw
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To: Christian4Bush

Exactly!!! LOL -- Ugh this is so frustrating. The left is refusing to admit the fact that these discoveries prove that Saddam was breaking the rules, had chemical weapons, and lied about it. It doesn't matter if this was the WMD we went to war for or not frankly. It still proves part of the left's equation false.

37 posted on 06/22/2006 1:42:01 PM PDT by LibertyRocks ( -- NEW URL for my blog...)
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