Skip to comments.Court's marijuana ruling a victory for authorities(zero tolerance in the real world)
Posted on 06/22/2006 9:52:05 PM PDT by freepatriot32
Marijuana users can be arrested for drugged driving weeks after they toast a joint, the Michigan Supreme Court ruled Wednesday in a Jackson County appeal.
A veteran prosecutor hailed the ruling as a correct interpretation of the zero-tolerance law that will make enforcement easier. A longtime defense attorney said the high court has opened the floodgates on overreaching government.
"This goes to show the Supreme Court does not seem to care about individual rights," Jackson attorney Jerry Engle said.
At issue were cases from Jackson and Grand Traverse counties. The local case involved the prosecution of Dennis Kurts for driving under the influence of marijuana.
Blackman Township police in February 2004 cited Kurts, 44, of Michigan Center, after he was stopped for driving erratically. He admitted smoking marijuana, police said. The time frame in which he smoked is unclear.
A blood test did not detect the narcotic THC, or tetrahydrrocannabinol, which is in marijuana. Instead, the test showed the presence of carboxy THC, a benign product of metabolism that can remain in the blood for a month after marijuana use.
Jackson County Circuit Judge Chad Schmucker dismissed the case in 2004 on the basis that the THC remnant was not an illegal controlled substance. Wednesday's ruling sends the case back to Schmucker's court.
"The Supreme Court makes it clear carboxy THC is a controlled substance, and the Michigan Legislature says it is against the law to drive with any controlled substance in the body," said Jerrold Schrotenboer, appellate attorney for Prosecutor Hank Zavislak.
Had the ruling gone the other way, prosecutors and defense attorneys would have to offer dueling expert witnesses to argue the issue, Schrotenboer said. The high court's ruling considers the THC derivative and the actual narcotic one in the same, rather than circumstantial evidence that a driver might have been high.
"This makes it vastly easier for prosecutors to convict on drugged-driving charges," Schrotenboer said.
That alarms Engle, who argued against Schrotenboer before the Supreme Court in January. Not all police and prosecutors use discretion, and some might see the same dollar signs that drive drunken-driving convictions, Engle said. The Legislature in recent years passed fees of up to $3,500 against drunken drivers, and those same fees apply to drugged driving, he said.
"Suppose someone runs a red light into your car. The cop asks if you have smoked marijuana in the last several weeks," Engle said. "A blood test shows carboxy THC. The other guy gets a traffic ticket, and you go to jail."
Several points for you to think about:
Percoset is not THC.
Marijuana is illegal and should stay that way FOREVER.
DeVos is conservative Republican...therefore I support him. Sowhat are you doing on this forum???
If you don't like AMWAY products don't buy them.
Do not force people to live and work and drive with marijuana addled idiots!
The law says one cannot have a controlled substance in one's body. THC is in the list of controlled substances. Carboxy THC is not. Ergo, the law has presumed to redefine a scientific fact for its own enrichment.
Have a good day.
Please see Merchants of Deception. The Amway organization has taken the Word of the Lord and twisted it around in order to produce billions of dollars for a very small group of people. As a Christian you should be appalled. There is a special place in hell for people like the Amway higher-ups.
I know you're a rational enough guy to realize that this law is gay and you're just too stubborn to admit it. I've gotta run. Will pick this up on Monday. Enjoy the weekend.
THC isn't THC because you say so. Uh huh.
Delta-9 tetrahydrocannbinol and 11-carboxy tetrahydrocannbinol are both forms of THC.
"In a 4-3 decision released Wednesday, the court ruled that 11-carboxy-THC, which is released when the body breaks down the marijuana's psychoactive ingredient THC, is a schedule 1 controlled substance."
Gimme a break! Wat a crybaby.
Amway is captitalism at its finest. In fact, the only country where it was restricted was China.
Most critics like this bozo Hassan are those who quit and couldn't do anything or want to sell a book... I prefer to learn from winners not losers.
Last month we had a pot head run all through my stone work in my ditch. He said it was days since he had any weed, but he had two wrecks in a weeks time...
He was under court order not to drive with his children in the car, but he called his mother and she picked up the baby before the police arrived. I was not so worried about his baby in the car, as I was over him possible running over my kids in my yard. LOL.. but my rock wall, two feet deep or more in areas did a wonderful job. He car/SUV was ripped from one end to the other, and my stone wall hardly had a scratch. My garbage can fared pretty well also, it was full of lumber and old cast iron sewer pipes I had recently pulled out of the basement and replaced. It had to weigh close to 600lbs when he slammed into it.
Just a real life experience.. with a pot head that decided not to keep it to himself.
I imagine you consider any form of government that can't guarantee that to be seriously flawed.
Would you support a law that makes it illegal for someone who took a Percoset 3 weeks ago to drive?
Opiates are not evident in the urine or blood that long (only about 72 hrs.) and they are heavily regulated. Nice try.
Cannabis is absorbed by fatty tissue and it is detectable for about two weeks... Why not have your doctor prescribe a different pain med?
Now that marijuana is considered medicine to relieve pain, how should it be treated any different than any other pain medication that restrict driving???
It is an opiate and is only detectable for about 72 hrs.
More like arresting you for driving on the 27th of the month because of the beer you drank on the 1st.
Mojave: Let me know when you're the majority.
Actually, it would seem that Michigan law does call for arresting individuals under the influence of Paxil, Zoloft, etc. (which after all are "controlled substances.") Equal protection under the law and all...
Heh, heh...funny how when one agrees with a court ruling, the judges become "voters' representatives." Otherwise, they're over-reaching judicial activist bastards.
Funny how you make things up. Legislators, not judges, enacted the law.
No quote, no cite, no link, no surprise.
The larger effect you seek is all out war.
If you know you are going to jail then you ought to make it worthwhile by
poppin a cap into some treasonous jack booted thug.
Right. No logic on your part... No surprise.
Your bluff was called, you folded.
Did you miss the part of my post where I said "because Paxil, Zoloft, etc. are "controlled substances?" The article states that Michigan law prohibits driving under the influence of controlled substances -- I don't need another link when it's in the article to which this thread is attached. Prescription antidepressants by definition are controlled.
Judges, not legislators, decided that THC metabolites = THC.
Yea indeed! Also, if someone drives within a month of having a drink they should go to the slammer too. Zero tolerence is good!
I hope you don't hold any elected office position. If you were ruler of the county, would you have us all submit a drug screening every week or so?
I think I'll probably end up feeling like New Sisyphus does about the piece, but on your suggestion, I will read it.
See, flattery WILL get you somewhere. 8)
Why are you so afraid of quoting the actual language of the law?
Quote the law, question beggar.
TOL said the same for LSD, except for the thousands of years part.
No, the law is a zero-tolerance law. zero means zero, not an amount that would cause intoxication.
From the Court's decision:
As stated above, the Public Health Code includes within the definition of marijuana every compound and derivative of the plant or its seeds or resin. THC is the main psychoactive substance found in the cannabis plant. 11- carboxy-THC is a metabolite of THC in that it is produced when the body metabolizes THC...
It is undisputed that THC and 11-carboxy-THC are identical except that in 11-carboxy- THC, two oxygen atoms are added to and three hydrogen atoms are removed from the eleventh carbon to make it more water soluble and easier to excrete.
The law prohibits driving with a class 1 controlled substance in your system. From the article, carboxy THC was added to that list by the judges through judicial fiat.
The result may be equitable - I'm not arguing that point - but the method is more than suspect.
BTW - "zero tolerance" equates to "zero intelligence".
Right. Anyone who chooses to stop arguing with a illogical opponent has folded?
Congratulations on your self-aggrandizing delusion. Until you learn the rules of logic, you will have a hard time actually winning any of these debates.
He's not here to win the debate, he's here to keep one from happening.
Don't believe everything you read, particularly in the Russian press ;)
*My apologies if you were posting that story as a joke
Can we start by shooting drunk drivers?
Soouds like Michigan has criminalized the posession and consumption of cellulose and chlorophyl.
LOL! The Kennedys would be out of office by default if that happened!!
Actully you are the one who should be reading more critically.
I would rather take my chances on the Russian press than the mainstream liberal drive by press.
"The active substance in cannabis, thujone, creates Atrial natriuretic peptides which stimulates the consequent reactions in the body."
You learn something new every day!
Somehow that doesn't look like Michigan.
Sir, your wit fails to cover your total lack of understanding of the topic under discussion.
And should follow your own advice. That garbage article you posted was absurd, particularly this tidbit.
The active substance in cannabis, thujone, creates Atrial natriuretic peptides which stimulates the consequent reactions in the body.
You need to do some research on thujone
before you go making ridiculous statements.
Except from link below:
"The toxicity of thujone in the brain is believed to result from its structural similarity to tetrahydrocannibinol, or THC (3) , the active compound in marijuana. ...Thujone and THC have similar shapes, and it is believed that they interact with the same biological receptor to produce their similar psychological effects"
So, in your opinion, the active ingredient in cannabis is really thujone? Otherwise I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to prove.
Along with everything else, the Russians now claim to have invented ditchweed.
Read the original article for the good news.
According to the article, the "good news" is they've "invented" cannibis with no thujone in it. Are we supposed to be impressed?
The article would indicate that they have developed Thujone free cannabis.