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INTELLIGENCE: Why Iraq WMD Finds Were Kept Secret
Strategy Page ^ | 2006 Jun 23 | Harold C. Hutchison

Posted on 06/24/2006 11:17:55 AM PDT by Wiz

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To: SandRat

You are correct, an interesting view, that makes sense to me.


51 posted on 06/24/2006 12:50:42 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Lord ,when we are wrong,make us willing to change. And when we are right, make us easy to live with.)
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To: Matchett-PI
He writes this. "I had forgotten that federal prosecutors designated Jack Murtha an unindicted coconspirator in the Abscam investigation 26 years ago.">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not only that, but the special prosecutor for ABSCAM resigned when the comittee, controlled by Democraps, refused to indict Murtha. The prosecutor had him COLD, and Murtha would have done time.

52 posted on 06/24/2006 12:51:05 PM PDT by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: TypeZoNegative

I'd hit it.


53 posted on 06/24/2006 12:51:48 PM PDT by Candor7 (Into Liberal flatulance goes the best hope of the West, and who wants to be a smart feller?)
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To: JoeGar

Botcholism? My fridge could qualify as a WMD in that case.


54 posted on 06/24/2006 12:54:25 PM PDT by mgstarr
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

OBL, will never die.........it would break the jihadi's heart.


55 posted on 06/24/2006 12:59:24 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Lord ,when we are wrong,make us willing to change. And when we are right, make us easy to live with.)
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To: SandRat

I'm glad those two soldiers weren't badly hurt because of it.


56 posted on 06/24/2006 1:00:34 PM PDT by processing please hold (If you can't stand behind our military, stand in front of them.)
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To: Candor7

Yeah.. the rules have been different for the RATS for many years. If we can keep them out of office and/or off of powerful committees, then privatize a lot of the work being done by the treasonous feather-bedding RATS who make up the permanent bureaucracy at all levels of government - we would be going a long way towards neutralizing them and the protection racket they run.


57 posted on 06/24/2006 1:03:46 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: pbrown; SandRat
I don't have a link, but I remember reading about it as well. As I recall, it was a binary shell, and the fact that it didn't get spun down a tube and then in flight, was thought to be the reason why it didn't have much efficacy (insufficient mixing of the binary components).
58 posted on 06/24/2006 1:11:00 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Pete

It does make sense. It's kind of like on 24, where the fictional president was complicent in nerve gas being sold to terrorists and in the assasination of a former US President. It was decided that revealing this information to the public was in the country's best interest.

It still annoys me that so many people have called me a lunatic anytime I tell them I believe there are/were WMD's in Iraq.


59 posted on 06/24/2006 1:32:25 PM PDT by EdnaMode
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To: SandRat
This makes sense to me, and this is something I've wondered about for a long time (for reasons I cannot go into). I think it also speaks volumes about President Bush that he put the troops ahead of any political gain he'd have gotten from trumpeting these finds.
60 posted on 06/24/2006 1:32:39 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (The MSM is "the propaganda arm of our enemies." - Jack Kelly)
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To: pbrown

Proves the AutoPen for Nerve Agents of Atropine and 2PamChloride works as advertised in training.


61 posted on 06/24/2006 2:01:48 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: FreedomPoster

Somewhere earlier in the thread some kind Freeper found the story.


62 posted on 06/24/2006 2:02:59 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: killjoy

Thank God they were ignorant.


63 posted on 06/24/2006 2:33:07 PM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: Wiz

Headlines across the nation should read, "BUSH PROVED RIGHT. WMD FOUND IN LARGE QUANITIES."

Since the entire opposition argument repeated by Democrats and other anti-Americans was based on the single claim that there were NEVER ANY WMD in Iraq the finding should have been made right away.


64 posted on 06/24/2006 3:51:53 PM PDT by R.W.Ratikal (8)
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To: pbrown
"that story"

That story was actually announced on ABC News the next day by Peter Jennings in the typical "so what" dismissive tone he had . The story was abruptly dropped from view by the media as were all other subsequent discoveries of Hussein's wmds. The current spin is that because the wmds are slightly older (as if one manufactured in 1990 is far less dangerous than one made in 1992), they are of no consequence.

The fact is that ever since the start of the war, we have been bombarded (no pun intended) by Big Media with the lie that "Saddam had no wmds!!". Now we know he had hundreds that he failed to reveal or destroy. So Big Media simply moves the goalposts to claim that the shells and canisters are harmless. Which leads me to want to detonate one in a crowded room full of lib naysayers. We'd see how "harmless" they were.

65 posted on 06/24/2006 3:59:47 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: pbrown

Can't give you the link, but there has been two incidents. One with mustard and one with nerve gas.


66 posted on 06/24/2006 5:25:25 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: killjoy; SandRat; All

No, it is the ideal IED. It means it will kill in a large area plus the area will be contaminated. The main problem with one of these is that EOD teams can not blow them in place and probably can not use a robot on them due to the chance of dispercing the chemical agent.

Even during WWI, chemical land mines were used. They are very, very effective.


67 posted on 06/24/2006 5:30:56 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: killjoy

They were captured by the Iraqi army.


68 posted on 06/24/2006 5:33:23 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: FreedomPoster

If it was a binary round, then it was something new.


69 posted on 06/24/2006 5:34:50 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Stallone

70 posted on 06/24/2006 5:39:46 PM PDT by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: U S Army EOD

And to this day French Farmers are still encountering live Chem Devices in thier fields that are just as potent as they day they were embedded in the ground by the war.


71 posted on 06/24/2006 5:51:51 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: SandRat

The main problem is on the beaches in Belgium and Holland where hundreds of tons were sea dumped after the war. It is beginning to wash in.


72 posted on 06/24/2006 5:55:17 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Wiz

Good find, Freepers were right on this reasoning from the beginning I noticed.


73 posted on 06/24/2006 6:15:38 PM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: U S Army EOD

There's a link to one of the stories about it, further down in the thread. I'd be curious on your thoughts, if you take a look at it.


74 posted on 06/24/2006 6:19:29 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: FreedomPoster

If we had not taken out Saddam's command and control capability in the first few hours, our troops would have encountered a lot of gas attacks.


75 posted on 06/24/2006 6:41:24 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Matchett-PI

Great post, and thank you for the full transcript.


76 posted on 06/24/2006 6:49:20 PM PDT by Irish Eyes
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To: TonyInOhio

Yowza!


77 posted on 06/24/2006 6:53:45 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Irish Eyes
Someday, more info will be released. It's what we do in war...keep secrets...or try to. It's how you win wars.

Saddam was very, very close to getting from under the the UN sanctions. That would give Usama a new home and it would likely be in the Kurd area, so I can imagine Saddam gassing those he missed the first time.

As it was, he was able to build 52 Palaces (I think) during the sanction period. He complained that he needed the sanctions lifted "for the children". I imagine each had/has a tunnel. I'd love to see a map as to how they were positioned.

78 posted on 06/24/2006 6:58:08 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Wiz

"It seems like everyone in the Western World has forgotten that the U.S. discovered an advanced MIG fighter buried under 20 feet or so of sand in Iraq. Is it likely that Air to Air missles were also buried under the sand? Sure. What about Air to Ground missles? Sure. What about other weapons? Hmmmm. This entire debate is mierde de Toro."


79 posted on 06/24/2006 7:14:50 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Stallone

"F- the French."

I was wearing just that T shirt today! My son, a lefty, is going to host me in a couple of weeks (Steamboat Springs); he mentioned that it would include Bastille Day. I'm planning to take along my t-shirt to display that day!! Oughta be a gas.


80 posted on 06/24/2006 7:17:45 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Sacajaweau
Someday, more info will be released. It's what we do in war...keep secrets...or try to. It's how you win wars.

Saddam was very, very close to getting from under the the UN sanctions. That would give Usama a new home and it would likely be in the Kurd area, so I can imagine Saddam gassing those he missed the first time.

Could not agree more !

As it was, he was able to build 52 Palaces (I think) during the sanction period. He complained that he needed the sanctions lifted "for the children". I imagine each had/has a tunnel. I'd love to see a map as to how they were positioned

If you ever see such a map let me know would love to see it.

81 posted on 06/24/2006 7:28:24 PM PDT by Irish Eyes
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To: JoeGar
That would be botulism, caused by a bacterium named Clostridium botulium. A single green bean from a contaminated can is powerful enough to kill an average sized male. It is one of the most potent natural toxins known and certainly qualifies as a WMD!
82 posted on 06/24/2006 7:47:49 PM PDT by srmorton
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To: Wiz
...The revelation that Coalition forces have discovered about 500 shells containing chemical weapons (mostly sarin nerve gas and mustard gas) since 2003, most of which are pre-1991 Gulf War vintage, ...

Is this simply sloppy journalism, or are we missing something? What can be said about the others? Newer? Older? Foreign? French?

83 posted on 06/24/2006 8:03:21 PM PDT by stboz
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To: plain talk
The WH should never have allowed the dems to say over and over again "there were no WMDs" without challenging it.

I agree. But, then again, this is the GOP:


84 posted on 06/24/2006 9:15:43 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Wiz
SOP (Standard Operation Procedures) military.

Classify what you suspect the enemy can use against you (MSM)!
85 posted on 06/24/2006 9:41:43 PM PDT by Prost1 (We can build a wall, we can evict - "Si, se puede!")
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To: Rembrandt

Should be fun - tell him Stallone says "How ya doin'".


86 posted on 06/24/2006 10:57:57 PM PDT by Stallone (Mainstream Media is dead. I helped kill it.)
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To: SandRat; SuzyQue; All
SEE THE VIDEO: http://media2.foxnews.com/051704/ts_iraqsarin_051704_300.wmv

87 posted on 06/25/2006 10:12:20 AM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Wiz
The U.S. government has taken a beating for supposed failures to find weapons of mass destruction in the press, and from political opponent

First of all, with the Dims being intellectually bankrupt, we have evolved to the point where the press tells them what to say.

But the only reason that makes sense to me for the Bush administration willingly taking a beating is that they WANT to appear weak. If Iraq is flypaper for international Islamist terrorism as even now Victor Davis Hansen allows, then appearing weak should encourage terarorists to flock to Iraq to get killed and leave to us their laptops and cell phones. Bush is a poker player and he is getting the enemy to invest in a losing hand. The "enemy" is evidently the Islamists, the MSM, and the radical left.

88 posted on 06/25/2006 10:43:04 AM PDT by Poincare
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To: Wolverine

Interesting. I wonder if they did know what they had? Did they think it was just regular weapons? Do sarin filled shells look different?


89 posted on 06/25/2006 10:47:55 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: TonyInOhio
"That's God's gift to France, Melissa Theuriau."

Oh, mercy, she's lovely. You need to start a thread so everyone can demand photos of her. :)

90 posted on 06/25/2006 11:13:54 AM PDT by bcsco (KOs = KOincidence of KOmmie KOrruption!)
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To: SandRat; pbrown; U S Army EOD; SuzyQue
To: Bob Hyneman

April 26, 2004 - Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman.

...

In a series of raids, the Jordanians said, they seized 20 tons of chemicals and numerous explosives.


From http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/

Other news stories at the time said the 20 tons (40,000 pounds) of chemicals were mostly Sarin and VX nerve agent. These chemical weapons were brought to Jordan by al Qaeda from Syria. But Syria doesn't have the technology to make VX. Iraq had a history of making VX, though.

There were other news stories at the time with more details than the CNN story. But the media didn't seem very interested and never followed up on where these terrorists managed to find 40,000 pounds of chemical weapons. I guess they thought these guys ran down to the local "chemical weapons-R-Us" store and got them there.

11 posted on 01/24/2005 4:14:25 PM CST by cc2k
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____________________________________________________________

Sarin-filled munitions in Iraq worry U.S.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-17-sarin_x.htm

Deadly Nerve Agent Sarin Is Found in Roadside Bomb
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33082-2004May17.html

91 posted on 06/25/2006 11:54:28 AM PDT by Eagle9
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To: Eagle9

Around 1972, the Russians were supplying Arabic countries with chemical munitions like passing out candy. Syria was one of the countries getting it.


92 posted on 06/25/2006 12:11:22 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: U S Army EOD
Around 1972, the Russians were supplying Arabic countries with chemical munitions

And France supplied the shells.

I think ground forces know where a lot of the stuff is at, both in country and beyond. The beyond is a different story.

Suppose there's a large cache buried of sarin, VX or mustard; What would it take to dispose of it safely (without creating an incident like Bhopal)?
93 posted on 06/25/2006 12:21:54 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhauling is a sensible solution to mutiny.)
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To: Wiz

This stuff is dangerous. Shells from WWI are still killing French farmers.


94 posted on 06/25/2006 12:24:04 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: BIGLOOK

No it was all Russian then. When EOD went over to Egypt to help clear the Suez canal in 74, they were taken and shown the Egyptain stocks. Egypt got rid of theirs.

There are reports that recently France was supplying bi-nary technology to Iraq. This is very new for them.


95 posted on 06/25/2006 12:25:31 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: U S Army EOD
Around 1972, the Russians were supplying Arabic countries with chemical munitions like passing out candy. Syria was one of the countries getting it.

It seems like remember reading several articles back in the 1970s that were about a Russian presence, maybe a port, in Yemen or South Yemen. Whatever the case, the U.S. was concerned about a spreading Russian influence in the region, much like Angola.

96 posted on 06/25/2006 12:34:15 PM PDT by Eagle9
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To: U S Army EOD
Yeah, the binary tech was the phrase I was looking for. IIR, one of the roadside IEDs was a binary shell. Caused casualties but reportedly not serious (like that's comforting). Which brings us back to the problem of disposing of a cache, mixed or unmixed. You think they'd dig it out and transport (I wouldn't but I'm not in charge) or torch it in place?
97 posted on 06/25/2006 12:40:37 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhauling is a sensible solution to mutiny.)
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To: SuzyQue

These shells all look the same.


98 posted on 06/25/2006 1:08:43 PM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Wolverine

No there are some differences in them.


99 posted on 06/25/2006 1:38:59 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Matchett-PI; jveritas; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ASA Vet; BIGLOOK

Thanks for posting this. I had Grand Kids last week and got just a little of this while being Grampa Taxi Driver.


100 posted on 06/25/2006 3:16:25 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (There's a dwindling market for Marxist Homosexual Lunatic wet dreams posing as journalism)
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