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Austrian Writer Peter Handke: Send my award to the Serbs
ERPKIM ^ | June 23, 2006 | By D. Sekulic

Posted on 06/26/2006 11:04:21 AM PDT by Bokababe

Peter Handke has once again shocked the German public but this time in such a way that not even the most extreme do not dare criticize him for it. He has given up the alternative Heinrich Heine award that the actors and intellectuals of Berlin wished to bestow upon him in favor of the Serbs of Kosovo, who live "surrounded by barbed wire and tanks".

www.novosti.co.yu Vecernje Novosti daily, Belgrade

June 24, 2006 By D. Sekulic, June 23, 2006

Peter Handke has once again shocked the German public but this time in such a way that not even the most extreme do not dare criticize him for it. He has given up the alternative Heinrich Heine award that the actors and intellectuals of Berlin wished to bestow upon him in favor of the Serbs of Kosovo, who live "surrounded by barbed wire and tanks".

The Berlin Ensemble, headed by the also frequently controversial Klaus Peymann, the famous former head of the Vienna Burgtheater, recently organized donations with the help of numerous actors to award Handke an alternative Heinrich Heine award in the amount of 50,000 euros. The highly prestigious German language award was awarded to Peter Handke by an expert jury in Dusseldorf but the city council refused to accept its decision, stating quite literally that the award could not go to a writer who is of pro-Serb orientation!

The case provoked spirited discussion and many concluded that it represented an instance of brutal political censure of literature. Local politicians are judging one of the greatest living writers in the German language, warned eminent intellectuals, among them some, like Nobel laureate Gunther Grass who at one time advocated the bombing of Serbia.

At the same time Handke informed Peymann and his friends that he is renouncing the alternative award as well because, as he had previously stated, he did not wish his work to be the subject of meddling by local politicians. The money that they collect should be sent to the Serb enclaves in Kosovo and Metohija to people who are living under impossible conditions thanks to the supporters of "freedom" imposed upon them by NATO bombs.

Grass dismisses jury

In Dusseldorf it has now been openly admitted that the decision really was of a political nature and that the Heinrich Heine award allegedly has a clearly political character. In response to this, Grass, who is highly influential, has sent a request that in the future the city council be stripped of the right to approve or reject the decision of the expert jury.

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Related article:

Disputed Author Handke Awarded German Literary Prize

DEUTSCE WELLE 25.05.2006

Großansict des Bildes mit der Bildunterscrift: Austrian writer Peter Handke is controversial because of his stance on Serbia

Controversial Austrian playwright and novelist Peter Handke was awarded the city of Düseldorf's Heine Prize for literature.

The Heine Prize, endowed for 50,000 euros ($64,000), is one of the three highest-paying literature prizes in Germany. The jury said Handke -- like Heinric Heine, the German poet after whom the prize is named -- obstinately follows the way to an "open truth." He puts forth his own poetic world view, in contrast to broader public opinion, they said. The prize will be awared on Dec. 13.

Handke wrote the groundbreaking experimental play "Offending the Audience" and the novel "The Goalie's Anxiety at the Penalty Kick", but may be best know for writing the novel "Wings of Desire", whic was turned into a film by Wim Wenders.

Pro-Serbian stance

He is controversial because of his pro-Serbian stance during the Balkan wars, and his support for the Serbian regime.

Recently, Frenc national theatre Comédie-Française removed the play "Voyage to the Sonorous Land or the Art of Asking" from its 2007 season lineup, after Handke spoke at the burial of former Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic in Marc.

Handke, who lives in France, said in an esay in the Frenc newspaper Libération: "Let's stop laying the masacre . on the backs of the Serbian military and paramilitary. And listen -- at last -- to the survivors of the Muslim masacres in numerous Serbian villages around Srebrenica."

'Glad' aceptance

Last year, Handke's publisher, Suhrkamp Verlag, said the author would categorically refuse any more literature prizes; in Paris, however, Handke said he would "gladly" acept the Heine Prize.

Up to now, winners of the Heine Prize have included Walter Jens, Günter Kunert, Max Frisc, Wolf Biermann, Hans Magnus Enzensberger, Elfriede Jelinek und Robert Gernhardt.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: albania; allybetrayed; austria; balkans; christianity; clintonlegacy; darkotheustashi; germany; ihoppy; islamofascists; jihad; kosovo; pancakeboy; serb; sorosfluffers; toothlessdhimmi; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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1 posted on 06/26/2006 11:04:26 AM PDT by Bokababe
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To: zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; Banat; FormerLib; ...

May God Bless Peter Handke!


2 posted on 06/26/2006 11:05:39 AM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Do you ever get the feeling we fought on the wrong side in that "illegal" war?


3 posted on 06/26/2006 11:17:28 AM PDT by SeanOGuano
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To: SeanOGuano

We shouldn't have fought on any side.


4 posted on 06/26/2006 11:19:13 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: Bokababe
Screw him. He was a supporter of the Milosevic regime and spoke up in defense of that scumbag.

He supported Serbia because he saw Serbia as the last remaining outpost of the Communism he favors, not because of any humanitarian concerns.

5 posted on 06/26/2006 11:22:37 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Bokababe

Good for Peter Handke! One of the few European intellectuals who dares to speak out against the trend.

As for Günther Grasse, I've always thought that his work was highly overrated. I've never been able to get through it. Nothing but self-worshipping, superficial, juvenile leftism, lacking imagination.

You don't have to like an author's politics to admire his writing, but Grasse is a second-rater.


6 posted on 06/26/2006 11:23:28 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

You should be able to see right through Handke, Cicero. I mean, come on.


7 posted on 06/26/2006 11:26:22 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

Screw him. He was a supporter of the Milosevic regime and spoke up in defense of that scumbag.

Well said!


8 posted on 06/26/2006 11:50:26 AM PDT by Valin (http://www.irey.com/)
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To: wideawake
Milosevic grew up in a commie world but had morphed into a nationalist/patriot by the time Slick KKKlintler decided to bomb Serbia for 80 days and nights to take Juanita Broaddrick and Chinagate off the front pages of American newspapers.

The really evil villians in the story are the demokkkrat us senators who went to the wall to keep slick in the whitehouse for 8 years rather than packing his sorry ass off to St. Elizabeth's hospital for the criminally insane where he belongs.

9 posted on 06/26/2006 12:08:24 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: wideawake
He supported Serbia because he saw Serbia as the last remaining outpost of the Communism he favors...

And your source for this is...?

10 posted on 06/26/2006 12:13:42 PM PDT by F-117A (They say there is no such thing as an ex-Marine,.Murtha disproves that!!!)
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To: F-117A
Let's start with the fact that he is one of the founding members of Die Grazer Gruppe, the writers' organization of the KPO, Austria's Communist Party.

Do you know anything of his books? His biography?

Asking me for a "source" that Handke is a hardcore leftist is like asking someone for a source that Benedict CVI is a Catholic.

You are aware that Handke spoke at Milosevic's funeral, right?

11 posted on 06/26/2006 12:31:23 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: F-117A

Correction: XVI


12 posted on 06/26/2006 12:32:07 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: tomzz
Milosevic grew up in a commie world but had morphed into a nationalist/patriot by the time Slick KKKlintler decided to bomb Serbia

Keep telling yourself that.

Milosevic was an unreconstructed Communist.

When people defend filth like Milosevic while attacking Clinton in the same breath, it only makes rational people view Clinton favorably.

Probably the only semi-decent thing Clinton did in his whole miserable life was attack this Communist dictator - though he only did it for politics, not out of principle.

13 posted on 06/26/2006 12:35:59 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
Probably the only semi-decent thing Clinton did in his whole miserable life was attack this Communist dictator - though he only did it for politics, not out of principle.

Near as I can tell from everything believable I've been able to come up with, we bombed a totally innocent Christian nation into the stone age for 80 days and nights including Easter sunday, for the benefit of a bunch of narco-terrorists, white trash, and barbarians, and to take the Juanita Broaddrick story off newspapers. In the entire 8 year reign of terror of the KKKlinton regime, I only saw two groups of people stand up to the beast and try to face it down, that being the Mormons in Utah and the Serbs. That gives those people hero status in my estimation.

14 posted on 06/26/2006 1:23:03 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: wideawake

Ypu know, problem with your theory is that people actuali lived in Serbia during Milosevic administration. he started democratic reforms, dissmissing communist rule, givving new, democratic constiturtion still on power, dissmissing Islamic/communist raign on Kosovo and actualy telling people that there is more out there than communism.

Can you belive, that he actualy held elections. First democratic elections in Eastern Europe, held in 1990, when Poland, Hungary and others hade still communist regimes.

In economy he started freemarket economy, privatisation of factories and other western values.


15 posted on 06/26/2006 1:32:15 PM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary)
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To: Bokababe

Great story, thanks!


16 posted on 06/26/2006 2:02:36 PM PDT by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: wideawake
It's the "Milosevic was the good guy" Twilight Zone episode.

Enjoy.

17 posted on 06/26/2006 2:20:21 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: wideawake
"Let's start with the fact that he is one of the founding members of Die Grazer Gruppe, the writers' organization of the KPO, Austria's Communist Party."

Everything I have found said that he "joined Die Grazer Gruppe", not that he was "a founding member". Besides which, who of any of us weren't more liberal in college than we are today? For God's sake, Ronald Reagan briefly flirted with communism in his youth! (And my source for that was direct conversation with the people who talked him out of it!)

"Screw him. He was a supporter of the Milosevic regime and spoke up in defense of that scumbag."

In the interview with the Süddeutsche Zeitung , 31 March 1999, he (Handke) said clearly, "I am with the Serbian people, not Milosevic. Anyone who is not a pronounced anti-Serb is despised as being 'pro-Serb'. Whoever mentions Milosevic's name without immediately adding 'slaughterer', 'Balkan Hitler', 'God protect us', is accused of taking sides with Milosovic.” He added, polemically, that "to be called pro-Serb today is an honour."

"You are aware that Handke spoke at Milosevic's funeral, right?"

Yes, and the press twisted his words so much that they had to write a retraction. Here is what Handke said in response:

"I have not laid a red rose on the hearse of Slobodan Milosevic. I did not touch the hearse. I did not wave the Serbian flag. And I have never approved "the Srebrenica massacre and other crimes done in the name of ethnic cleansing." I've never considered the Serbs as "the real victims of the war." And in Pozarevac, I did not come as a "truth seeker." I am not the author of Justice for Serbia, but of Winter Journey to the rivers Danube, Sava, Morava and Drina (Gallimard). And nowhere in my little speech in Pozarevac have I said "I am happy to be close to Slobodan Milosevic, who has defended his people." What is true: I gave my speech in "Serb" (or serbo-croat)! And for all the readers, I am translating it here in French: "The world, the so-called world, knows everything on Yugoslavia, Serbia. The world, the so-called world, knows everything on Slobodan Milosevic. The so-called world knows the truth. For that, the so-called world today is absent, and not only today, and not only here. I know that I do not know. I do not know the truth. But I look. I feel. I remember. For that, I am present today, close to Yugoslavia, close to Serbia, close to Slobodan Milosevic. -- P.H. Actually, the last sentence should be translated as "[F]or that, I am present today, with Yugoslavia, with Serbia, with Slobodan Milosevic," which, although not literal, may better express Handke's sentiments.

Handke was a "Yugoslavist", not "a communist". He believed that if the different peoples of Yugoslavia could get a along, then the world had a chance of peace. You can call that naive, but naivete is not communism. Handke knew enough about the history of the place and the players involved (including Germany's role) in the destruction of Yugoslavia, to know that the blanket "blame it all on the Serbs" attitude was total nonsense -- and racist, to a people who Germany had twice tried to anihilate.

You can fault Handke for many things, but in this case, his behavior is a matter of conscience -- and he has paid dearly for it. Peter Handke is a brave man, and the actions of his detractors has been abominable.

18 posted on 06/26/2006 2:22:37 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: wideawake
"He (Handke) supported Serbia because he saw Serbia as the last remaining outpost of the Communism he favors, not because of any humanitarian concerns."

Is that why he went to Kosovo to celebrate Easter and endured being stoned by Muslim Albanians? http://www.kosovo.net/news/archive/2006/April_28/2.html

19 posted on 06/26/2006 2:47:35 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Valin; wideawake
Screw him. He was a supporter of the Milosevic regime and spoke up in defense of that scumbag.

At least he spoke in support of the Christian Serbs and against the Muhammedan terrorists.

Which is more than certain alleged Christians are willing to do.

20 posted on 06/26/2006 3:32:26 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: Hoplite

It's the "pancake-boy is on his knees helping the Muslims find their contact lenses" Outer Limits!

Such a good Dhimmi!


21 posted on 06/26/2006 3:33:55 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: wideawake; Bokababe; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ...
Probably the only semi-decent thing Clinton did in his whole miserable life was attack this Communist dictator...

So you have no objection to Clinton's murder of over 2,000 Serb civilians which was part of his attack on the dictator, just support? He was only picking up where the Jihadists and the Ustashe left off. Thanks for straightening that out for the rest of us "dirty Untermensch."

22 posted on 06/26/2006 3:38:16 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: wideawake
You are aware that Handke spoke at Milosevic's funeral, right?

Yes.

And who all spoke at Tito's funeral? Does that make them Communists?

23 posted on 06/26/2006 4:28:26 PM PDT by F-117A (They say there is no such thing as an ex-Marine,.Murtha disproves that!!!)
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To: F-117A
And who all spoke at Tito's funeral? Does that make them Communists?

Margaret Thatcher is a communist? Wow!

24 posted on 06/26/2006 5:35:31 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: SeanOGuano; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; Banat; ...
Do you ever get the feeling we fought on the wrong side in that "illegal" war?

There is no question in my mind that we were always on the wrong side in the break-up of Yugoslavia.

Anyone notice how each of the republics "took turns" seceeding from Yugoslavia -- as it was all choreographed and planned from the very beginning? Never a "bolt and run" which would have been logical if their wartime propaganda was true. But that might make the world think that the Serbs had been "ganged up on" -- which they had been. First it was Germany's little proteges, Slovenia and Croatia. Then it was the Islamics, Bosnia and Kosovo. Finally, Montenegro, so that it will be easier to slice off more pieces of Serbia and Montenegro to please the Sandzak and Albanian Moslems when the time comes -- unfortunately the Montenegrins just don't see this strategy yet.

And what in the hell did any of this Balkan meddling do to promote US interests? Nothing! The only thing that we "accomplished" -- if you consider it "an accomplishment" -- was to bomb a group of people --the Serbs-- who have had 600 years of experience at fighting Islamic terrorism and who had always been our ally.

And now to make matters worse, unless we stop it, we are going to hand the last Christian Serbs in Kosovo over to the Albanian Moslems and give the Moslems "a country" that was never theirs and was always Serbian territory. There is no sense in this -- not for Serbs and not for America!

25 posted on 06/26/2006 6:13:29 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Kosovo is the basic blueprint for Atzlan. What the hell are we going to do when the UN steps in demanding that we hand California and Texas over to Vincente Fox on the same stupid basis?


26 posted on 06/26/2006 6:26:40 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz
What the hell are we going to do when the UN steps in demanding that we hand California and Texas over to Vincente Fox on the same stupid basis? Got ammo?
27 posted on 06/26/2006 7:06:45 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: tomzz
Kosovo is the basic blueprint for Atzlan [Aztlan].

Fortunately Mexicans are Catholics. They will not destroy the churches, they will build them.

28 posted on 06/26/2006 8:06:01 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: wideawake

I read his book, you did not.


29 posted on 06/26/2006 8:07:13 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: Cicero
As for Günther Grasse, I've always thought that his work was highly overrated.

Günther Grasse is a pompous buffoon in love with himself.

30 posted on 06/26/2006 8:08:57 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: wideawake
Asking me for a "source" that Handke is a hardcore leftist is like asking someone for a source that Benedict CVI is a Catholic.

Helping the remaining Serbian survivors in Kosovo is a good gesture. God bless him!

31 posted on 06/26/2006 8:10:59 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: wideawake
Probably the only semi-decent thing Clinton did in his whole miserable life was attack this Communist dictator

Do you approve bombing Belgrade during Easter? Do you approve pogroms on Christians in Kosovo?

32 posted on 06/26/2006 8:12:25 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: wideawake
Asking me for a "source" that Handke is a hardcore leftist is like asking someone for a source that Benedict CVI is a Catholic.

Too bad that Handke left the seminary. The next German Pope might have been named Peter!

33 posted on 06/26/2006 8:37:32 PM PDT by F-117A (They say there is no such thing as an ex-Marine,.Murtha disproves that!!!)
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To: wideawake

You must understand that the Scumbags, Ceku, Ramush, etc...we are supporting. Much of the news and reports coming from the Balkans from Bosnia, and certainly Kosovo was absolutely fabricated. There is however, just enough truth to make the lies believeable. The Clinton Administation lied from the beginning to justify the war a hundred times more than people could ever think Bush did......The Balkans is a black mark in our history, equal to the Indian and the way our ancestors treated Blacks in the 19 century and early 20th century.


34 posted on 06/27/2006 4:22:23 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: wideawake; A. Pole

"Probably the only semi-decent thing Clinton did in his whole miserable life was attack this Communist dictator "

**** Clinton supported bring over Al Quida from Afghan to Bosnia and stirred up trouble......This caused the Serbs to react, heavily handed for sure, but they fell in the trap and was therefore demonized. The Klintoon Admin engineered many of the massacres and events to justify the bombing.....this is an old story.....


35 posted on 06/27/2006 4:35:39 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: SeanOGuano
Do you ever get the feeling we fought on the wrong side in that "illegal" war?

I have no doubt that we did just that. God Bless this man and may God save and protect the Serbian people.

36 posted on 06/27/2006 5:32:10 AM PDT by blinachka (Vechnaya Pamyat Daddy... xoxo)
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To: tgambill; F-117A; A. Pole; FormerLib; Bokababe; Hoplite; kronos77; tomzz; Valin
Basically, shills for the Milosevic regime on this thread have offered a number of lame ripostes in about a dozen posts.

Let's summarize.

False claim 1: Variations on the theme that "Milosevic was not a Communist dictator - he held elections, he opened the economy, etc."

Reality: Milosevic, as head of the Communist party, seized power in february 1988. He paid lip service to "reform" by holding elections in which his SPS Communists received 80.5% of the vote and the only other party of any size - the Communist JUL - received 10%. JUL was led, of course, by Milosevic's wife.

Some election.

And if awarding tons of state contracts and monopolies to regime supporters is "market economics" you guys need to go back to the drawing board.

Milosevic was a dictator and his party, the SPS, was and is an openly Marxist party.

False claim 2: "Handke is not a Communist. He met with Serbian Orthodox churchmen!"

reality: Handke was a founding member of Die Grzer Gruppe the writer's organization of the KPO - an openly Stalinist Austrian political party. Die Grazer Gruppe was founded in the winter of 1960/1961 - Handke was one of the first 10 or 20 people to join. As far as I'm concerned that makes him a founding member and any claim that he was not is simply semantics.

As far as people being "more liberal" in college than they are later: Handke was not a "liberal" in college. He was a Stalinist in college. And he remains a Communist along with his colleague Elfriede Jellinek.

Meeting with representatives of the Serbian Orthodox Church means nothing - the Serbian Orthdox Church was the most notorious and disgustingly obsequious collaborator with Communism of any of the national churches.

False claim 3: "America's involvement in Serbia was illegal! It's wrong to bomb military targets on Easter! America murdered 2000 Serbs!"

Reality: Serbian troops - who themselves had no problem carrying out military operations on Easter and every other holiday in the Serbian Orthodox calendar, so quit whining about the US carrying out military operations on the same day - murdered easily hundreds and perhaps thousands of Kosovars including women and children. Srebrenica happened. It is ridiculous that I have to say it, but Srebrenica happened.

America's involvement was entirely legal - not only in terms of international law, but also by the only standard that really matters: the US Congress authorized the intervention.

Case closed.

America "murdered" no one in Serbia. If Milosevic had ceased his criminal activity, it would not have been necessary to intervene. All the blood is on your hero's hands.

False claim 4: "Since Clinton opposed Milosevic, he must have been a decent guy."

Reality: The GOP opposed Milosevic just as Clinton did. Every decent person in the world opposed Milosevic, and so did indecent opportunists like Clinton.

Who supported Milosevic? A who's who of scummy anti-American filth: Edward Herman, Noam Chomsky, Diana Johnstone, harold Pinter, Saddam Hussein's attorney Ramsay Clark, George Galloway, etc.

As for the claims that Clinton conspired with Al-Qaeda in Albania in order to create incidents hoping that Milosevic would react and enable Clinton to attack him - this belongs in the realm of lunatic conspiracy theory and should be debated on Counterpunch, not FR.

37 posted on 06/27/2006 6:25:29 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
Reality: Milosevic, as head of the Communist party, seized power in february 1988.

Reality: EVERYBODY living in that part of the world in the 50s, 60s, and 70s was a communist; the alternative was being a corpse. By the early 90s, Milosevic had grown out of it.

38 posted on 06/27/2006 6:42:10 AM PDT by tomzz
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To: wideawake
Neither right nor left has monopoly on the truth. I recommend you a book by a US Socialist Michael Parenti:

To Kill a Nation

Just give it a try, please.

39 posted on 06/27/2006 6:48:39 AM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: wideawake; F-117A; A. Pole; FormerLib; Bokababe; Hoplite; kronos77; tomzz; Valin

"Srebrenica happened. It is ridiculous that I have to say it, but Srebrenica happened.

America's involvement was entirely legal - not only in terms of international law, but also by the only standard that really matters: the US Congress authorized the intervention."


****With most of the posts I either agree or I didn't make claim to it anyway, except for these two, here.

Americans involvement was authorized, yes; but based on enormous fabrications based on partial truths to make them seem all true. There were no 10,000 Kosovo ALb murdered by an stretch. Srebrenica happened, yes....but no where near 8,000 as reported. Most of them departed, and only about a max of 3,000 were actually killed. This is what you do to insurgents, is you fight them. We're rightfully doing it in Afghanistan and Iraq, and very well. We have more to kill also. This is the true story, as Rajak was also a fabrication mostly designed by the KLA.... Did you know that in the 80's, Milosevic came to the U.S. to study as a Banker. As a matter of history, he was approached by CIA and long story short turned into a politician, with the support for his return to Serbia to become a presidential candidate. However, he became a nationalist, turned his back on the U.S., and we lost him. Clinton, in his infinite wisdom and to fulfill the strategy we started in 1948, to break up Yugoslavia; went to our Afganistan "allies against Russia", and brought them to Bosnia to do what they do best. Stir up trouble, an insurgency, and thus the Serbs fell into this trap. Oh yes, they came across heavy handed, no questioning that......but, a lot was instigation and their thoughtless response to the threat. It was Muzzies from Afghanistan joining with Bosnian Muzzies with our blessings....There are several bonified video tapes that actually show the Muh with Holbrooke, NATO repts etc...in Bosnia. It's on tape...........It's a captured tape that is actually quite common now among those who have been researching this even closely. Case closed.




"As for the claims that Clinton conspired with Al-Qaeda in Albania in order to create incidents hoping that Milosevic would react and enable Clinton to attack him - this belongs in the realm of lunatic conspiracy theory and should be debated on Counterpunch, not FR."

**** This is actually a fact, and documented by the tape I mentioned and much testimony that is now old hat.....I wouldn't say Al Qaeda exactly. All Muh are not Al Qaeda, but they were Muzzies from Afghanistan supported in Bosnia and then on to Croatia for the star show of a Milosevic player called Ceku. The one that Interpol pardoned to become the leader in Kosovo. A butcher as bad as Milosevic, who participated in Operation Storm.

These are the facts, not conspiracy-theory, etc...but the Politically incorrect truth.





40 posted on 06/27/2006 7:03:03 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tomzz
EVERYBODY living in that part of the world in the 50s, 60s, and 70s was a communist; the alternative was being a corpse.

more special pleading.

Milosevic was not just an average citizen going along with the flow.

He was the leader of the Serbian Communist Party. In other words, he was a hardcore Communist ideologue of the first water.

By the early 90s, Milosevic had grown out of it.

Really? Then why did the SPS affiliate itself with the Cuban Communist party and the North Korean Communist party, rather than the French Socialist party or the British labour party?

I suppose Castro and Kim Jung-Il had also grown out of Communism as well and that you would argue that they are dedicated market advocates now as well.

41 posted on 06/27/2006 7:03:36 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: tgambill
Most of them departed, and only about a max of 3,000 were actually killed. This is what you do to insurgents, is you fight them. We're rightfully doing it in Afghanistan and Iraq, and very well. We have more to kill also.

Americans do not round up disarmed people and kill them in mass executions.

Even assuming that the old women and young children killed at Srebrenica were also Kosovar terrorists, US troops would not massacre 3,000 people wholesale.

That's simply immoral.

If they are in custody they are to be tried by the relevant court.

As a matter of history, he was approached by CIA and long story short turned into a politician, with the support for his return to Serbia to become a presidential candidate.

This is not a "matter of history" - it's pure speculation and highly unlikely.

Clinton, in his infinite wisdom and to fulfill the strategy we started in 1948, to break up Yugoslavia; went to our Afganistan "allies against Russia", and brought them to Bosnia to do what they do best. Stir up trouble, an insurgency, and thus the Serbs fell into this trap.

More speculation unsupported by even a shred of hard evidence.

As if the US in 1993 had any influence over Afghanistani terrorists, when they and their buddies were busy bombing the WTC.

The fact that they were there and that the Kosovars made them into spokesmen for their cause does not mean that the US government brought them to Bosnia or encouraged them.

A ridiculous leap.

42 posted on 06/27/2006 7:12:58 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: A. Pole
Neither right nor left has monopoly on the truth.

The right has no monopoly on the truth. The left does not have, and never has, anything to do with the truth as a matter of principle.

I recommend you a book by a US Socialist Michael Parenti:

Parenti, by virtue of the fact that he is an admitted Marxist, cannot be trusted.

He is also the lunatic who claims that the US intentionally and specifically bombed civilian targets in Belgrade in order to destroy Communist banners and murals.

Parenti is a screaming, raving moonbat and I regret the time I've lost reading a couple of his articles on this topic.

I have no desire to read anything else by him. Life is too short.

43 posted on 06/27/2006 7:17:34 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Bokababe
Handke wrote the groundbreaking experimental play "Offending the Audience"

Finally some truth in advertising!

44 posted on 06/27/2006 7:20:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: tgambill
Yeah, Srbrenica might have happened, i.e. the Serbs might have gotten tired of terrorists from srebrenica attacking their own towns and villages, I haven't ever really taken the time to investigate that one, but the ones I have been able to get real info about are all phony, and that includes the so-called "Racak Massacre" which was the supposed causus belli for Kosovo, but the real question is, After Trnopolje, which part of parts of this KKKlintonista/NATO/NWO BS are we supposed to go on believing?

Everything real I've ever been able to come up with on the Balkans strongly indicates that the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal, decent people in the region.

45 posted on 06/27/2006 7:21:34 AM PDT by tomzz
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To: Bokababe; SeanOGuano; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ...

This is a cut and paste of a conversation I have put out to a group in a blog.....starts:

To All, A close friend wrote this today and I'm passing it on as it very adequately describes the current situation:

Quote:

"I believe there is a serious connection with what is happening in Kosovo, what happened in Montenegro and the dynamics within the Preshevo Valley.My prediction is that, the big apple is being carved in a very subtle way and far away from the eyes of the International community .Montenegro is not finished yet.The Albanians there have an agenda,and so do those in Macedonia and Southern Serbia.

They have managed to develop the Socio-cultural, economic and religious aspect of their plans while shying away from the Geopolitical aspects allowing the International Community to do the dirty job.

The latter will one day be erased by the power of Socio cultural and religious alliances since it will be difficult to distinguish between a Kosovar, Macedon or a Montenegrin Albanian due to intensive inter mariages, cross border investments in Properties and businesses, and clan associations that are easily identified with family names.Most of all, the latter has be authentificated by the issuance of official ID Cards by the International Community. How many of such blanc templates of birth cerficates disapperaed with the stolen computer at the Vitina Municipality."

END QUOTE:


Quote:

yep... pretty much sa expected... but the nteresting thing now is how the Albanians are killing each other down in Macedonia. Apparently, the son of DUI (Ali AHmeti arty) Rafiz Aliti was shot along with a couple other Albs by DPA (Arben Xhaferi party) and Aliti has warned on
TV, "If DPA wants violence, we can give them violence." Possibility that Albanian civil war could start even before the partition of Macedonia they are getting impatient :)

INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP - NEW BRIEFING
> Southern Serbia: In Kosovo's Shadow
> Despite the current calm in Serbia’s Presevo Valley, there is potential for retaliatory violence related to the final status decision on neighbouring Kosovo later this year. Important progress has been made in the valley since the insurgency ended in 2001, but fresh action is needed to avoid negative spill-over from Kosovo’s looming independence. The international community and Kosovo
politicians should continue to make clear that Kosovo will not be partitioned, and the Presevo Valley will remain within Serbia. The Serbian government needs to abandon any thought of partitioning Kosovo and should revitalise the Coordination Body it has charged with overseeing southern Serbia. The balance of policing responsibilities
should be shifted to the multi-ethnic police from the paramilitary, nationalist Gendarmerie. All parties should take security measures to prevent targeting of minority groups.


To All: Another close assoicate wrote this...and thus gives a good example of the unfolding drama that is coming.....One that many of us knew as far back as 2000......
>
> Quote:
>
> "While I was in Novi Pazar in 2003/4, I believe the muslis will be > calling for that region to break off and join "kosovar albanians" for a > Kosova union. "
>
> End of Quote given today.........ALSO............


46 posted on 06/27/2006 7:24:20 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tomzz

Srebrenica did happen, but, not 8,000 Muslims slaughtered. Yes there is friendly fire when you have a war. Yes, the Serbs got heavy handed and a number of the Serbian paramilitaries got way out of hand, and should be punished, however, the Muslims murdered many, started the fight, slaughtered Serbian troops by beheadings, provoked the Serbs to retaliate, then play into NATO's hands......

There was just enough truth to make the world believe the big lie.

"Everything real I've ever been able to come up with on the Balkans strongly indicates that the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal, decent people in the region."

**** I have many Albanians that were close associates while I was there....in deference to that time, it suffices to say that in WWII the Serbs were our allies. There are Albanians today that are also victims of this movement. The Albanian Mafia owns Kosovo and is in league with certain UN officials since day one......The system is as corrupt as you can imagine.

You are right......


47 posted on 06/27/2006 7:31:50 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: wideawake
Parenti, by virtue of the fact that he is an admitted Marxist, cannot be trusted.

His facts and arguments in this book - To Kill A Nation stand on their own. And they do not depend on his world-view. You should read it.

Also you should not trust or distrust someone statement on the base of which political affiliation someone has. Even the members of very correct political movements happen to be wrong and people of incorrect views happen to be rights.

In matters of Yugoslavia Parenti is often right. And if he is a Socialist it sheds a good light on Socialism.

48 posted on 06/27/2006 7:37:37 AM PDT by A. Pole (Russian proverb: "All are not cooks that walk with long knives")
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To: wideawake
Do you know anything of his books?

Do you know anything about the fraud perpetrated on Serbia by the EU and Nato, siding with the head chopping Islamists in the Balkans?

IMO history will show that Milosevic was one of the greatest servants of Democratic principles in our lifetime. Just watch the transcripts of the Hague tribunal, it's all there.

The 'lie' against Serbia, used as a tool to break up the Balkans can't pass the smell test.

And this Administration, in it's laziness, seems to be going along with it, very sad.

49 posted on 06/27/2006 7:44:33 AM PDT by duckln
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To: A. Pole
His facts and arguments in this book - To Kill A Nation stand on their own.

no they don't. His claim that the US targeted civilian residential buildings for no purpose other than to destroy Communist banners and murals is ridiculous on its face, has absolutely no evidence behind it and proves that the man is a bald-faced liar.

Get this message: I am not as easily gulled by Marxists as you are.

And if he is a Socialist it sheds a good light on Socialism.

Socialism is inherently evil. No good light can be shed on theft and murder.

50 posted on 06/27/2006 7:47:18 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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