Skip to comments.Austrian Writer Peter Handke: Send my award to the Serbs
Posted on 06/26/2006 11:04:21 AM PDT by Bokababe
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more special pleading.
Milosevic was not just an average citizen going along with the flow.
He was the leader of the Serbian Communist Party. In other words, he was a hardcore Communist ideologue of the first water.
By the early 90s, Milosevic had grown out of it.
Really? Then why did the SPS affiliate itself with the Cuban Communist party and the North Korean Communist party, rather than the French Socialist party or the British labour party?
I suppose Castro and Kim Jung-Il had also grown out of Communism as well and that you would argue that they are dedicated market advocates now as well.
Americans do not round up disarmed people and kill them in mass executions.
Even assuming that the old women and young children killed at Srebrenica were also Kosovar terrorists, US troops would not massacre 3,000 people wholesale.
That's simply immoral.
If they are in custody they are to be tried by the relevant court.
As a matter of history, he was approached by CIA and long story short turned into a politician, with the support for his return to Serbia to become a presidential candidate.
This is not a "matter of history" - it's pure speculation and highly unlikely.
Clinton, in his infinite wisdom and to fulfill the strategy we started in 1948, to break up Yugoslavia; went to our Afganistan "allies against Russia", and brought them to Bosnia to do what they do best. Stir up trouble, an insurgency, and thus the Serbs fell into this trap.
More speculation unsupported by even a shred of hard evidence.
As if the US in 1993 had any influence over Afghanistani terrorists, when they and their buddies were busy bombing the WTC.
The fact that they were there and that the Kosovars made them into spokesmen for their cause does not mean that the US government brought them to Bosnia or encouraged them.
A ridiculous leap.
The right has no monopoly on the truth. The left does not have, and never has, anything to do with the truth as a matter of principle.
I recommend you a book by a US Socialist Michael Parenti:
Parenti, by virtue of the fact that he is an admitted Marxist, cannot be trusted.
He is also the lunatic who claims that the US intentionally and specifically bombed civilian targets in Belgrade in order to destroy Communist banners and murals.
Parenti is a screaming, raving moonbat and I regret the time I've lost reading a couple of his articles on this topic.
I have no desire to read anything else by him. Life is too short.
Finally some truth in advertising!
Everything real I've ever been able to come up with on the Balkans strongly indicates that the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal, decent people in the region.
This is a cut and paste of a conversation I have put out to a group in a blog.....starts:
To All, A close friend wrote this today and I'm passing it on as it very adequately describes the current situation:
"I believe there is a serious connection with what is happening in Kosovo, what happened in Montenegro and the dynamics within the Preshevo Valley.My prediction is that, the big apple is being carved in a very subtle way and far away from the eyes of the International community .Montenegro is not finished yet.The Albanians there have an agenda,and so do those in Macedonia and Southern Serbia.
They have managed to develop the Socio-cultural, economic and religious aspect of their plans while shying away from the Geopolitical aspects allowing the International Community to do the dirty job.
The latter will one day be erased by the power of Socio cultural and religious alliances since it will be difficult to distinguish between a Kosovar, Macedon or a Montenegrin Albanian due to intensive inter mariages, cross border investments in Properties and businesses, and clan associations that are easily identified with family names.Most of all, the latter has be authentificated by the issuance of official ID Cards by the International Community. How many of such blanc templates of birth cerficates disapperaed with the stolen computer at the Vitina Municipality."
yep... pretty much sa expected... but the nteresting thing now is how the Albanians are killing each other down in Macedonia. Apparently, the son of DUI (Ali AHmeti arty) Rafiz Aliti was shot along with a couple other Albs by DPA (Arben Xhaferi party) and Aliti has warned on
TV, "If DPA wants violence, we can give them violence." Possibility that Albanian civil war could start even before the partition of Macedonia they are getting impatient :)
INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP - NEW BRIEFING
> Southern Serbia: In Kosovo's Shadow
> Despite the current calm in Serbias Presevo Valley, there is potential for retaliatory violence related to the final status decision on neighbouring Kosovo later this year. Important progress has been made in the valley since the insurgency ended in 2001, but fresh action is needed to avoid negative spill-over from Kosovos looming independence. The international community and Kosovo
politicians should continue to make clear that Kosovo will not be partitioned, and the Presevo Valley will remain within Serbia. The Serbian government needs to abandon any thought of partitioning Kosovo and should revitalise the Coordination Body it has charged with overseeing southern Serbia. The balance of policing responsibilities
should be shifted to the multi-ethnic police from the paramilitary, nationalist Gendarmerie. All parties should take security measures to prevent targeting of minority groups.
To All: Another close assoicate wrote this...and thus gives a good example of the unfolding drama that is coming.....One that many of us knew as far back as 2000......
> "While I was in Novi Pazar in 2003/4, I believe the muslis will be > calling for that region to break off and join "kosovar albanians" for a > Kosova union. "
> End of Quote given today.........ALSO............
Srebrenica did happen, but, not 8,000 Muslims slaughtered. Yes there is friendly fire when you have a war. Yes, the Serbs got heavy handed and a number of the Serbian paramilitaries got way out of hand, and should be punished, however, the Muslims murdered many, started the fight, slaughtered Serbian troops by beheadings, provoked the Serbs to retaliate, then play into NATO's hands......
There was just enough truth to make the world believe the big lie.
"Everything real I've ever been able to come up with on the Balkans strongly indicates that the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal, decent people in the region."
**** I have many Albanians that were close associates while I was there....in deference to that time, it suffices to say that in WWII the Serbs were our allies. There are Albanians today that are also victims of this movement. The Albanian Mafia owns Kosovo and is in league with certain UN officials since day one......The system is as corrupt as you can imagine.
You are right......
His facts and arguments in this book - To Kill A Nation stand on their own. And they do not depend on his world-view. You should read it.
Also you should not trust or distrust someone statement on the base of which political affiliation someone has. Even the members of very correct political movements happen to be wrong and people of incorrect views happen to be rights.
In matters of Yugoslavia Parenti is often right. And if he is a Socialist it sheds a good light on Socialism.
Do you know anything about the fraud perpetrated on Serbia by the EU and Nato, siding with the head chopping Islamists in the Balkans?
IMO history will show that Milosevic was one of the greatest servants of Democratic principles in our lifetime. Just watch the transcripts of the Hague tribunal, it's all there.
The 'lie' against Serbia, used as a tool to break up the Balkans can't pass the smell test.
And this Administration, in it's laziness, seems to be going along with it, very sad.
no they don't. His claim that the US targeted civilian residential buildings for no purpose other than to destroy Communist banners and murals is ridiculous on its face, has absolutely no evidence behind it and proves that the man is a bald-faced liar.
Get this message: I am not as easily gulled by Marxists as you are.
And if he is a Socialist it sheds a good light on Socialism.
Socialism is inherently evil. No good light can be shed on theft and murder.
A dictator serving democratic principles.
The 'lie' against Serbia, used as a tool to break up the Balkans
Slovenia, Macedonia, Croatia and Montenegro left Yugoslavia in accordance with the will of the majority of their inhabitants.
A majority of the inhabitants of Bosnia, had they been permitted to vote, would have voted to exit Yugoslavia.
This would have stranded a sizable Serb minority which desired to remain Yugoslavian in Bosnia.
Yugoslavia's dictator decided to create a Serb majority in Bosnia to prevent this from happening.
Therefore, as a matter of policy, the Yugoslav government intiated a policy of exiling or killing the requisite number of non-Serbian Bosnians to create a Serb majority.
When that failed and Bosnia was partitioned, the advocates of Kosovar secession were emboldened.
Milosevic for the second time implemented the same policy, this time in Kosovo.
There is no "lie" here - the Milosevic regime committed crimes, and the different peoples of the Balkans wanted their independence as surely as the Slovaks, the Lithuanians, the Czechs, the Hungarians, the Ukrainians and other nations inside the Warsaw pact and Soviet Union wanted their independence.
To discuss the post-Communist national movements as if they were a plot instead of popular movements is ridiculous.
The truth, the 'covert public' breakup of the Balkans played into the hands of the Islamists. Ever step of it was a lie.
We see the same strategy at work now in Iraq. All news is a misrepresentation of the facts, making W and the USA the enemies of peace.
"Americans do not round up disarmed people and kill them in mass executions."
**** come again? Americans? The Serbs are the ones accused of killing 8,000 Muslims in Srebrenica. The Serbs did not kill 8,000 Muslims as claimed. The NATO bombing was the most indiscriminate and incompetent operation that one can imagine. It killed both Albanians and Serbs for another point. Where did you hear that Americans rounded up people.....????
In all due respect, I'm going to assume you mean well, but the media and reports were mostly fabricated. The point about Milosevic is not rumor.......Many of us have been doing much serious research on our involvement into the Balkans..which in fact, as a matter of history...documented, started in 1948 with the CIA getting involved with Albania. Did you know that the Albanians had a Nazi SS unit in Kosovo..murdering thousands of Serbs and jews...Called the Skenderburg Division...the same name they are using in Macedonia today. I know, I was in Kosovo from 1999 to 2004, as a security chief for OSCE. We, U.S. actually had American advisors working with the NLA during their operations in Macedonia.....early 2000 time frame....there is much people don't know and it was not the right thing to do.....
It's "hearsay" that the people of Montenegro voted to secede?
It's a"lie" that the people of Slovenia voted to secede?
So everyone who thinks that Slovenia is an independent country is hallucinating?
You're the one who should worry about being taken seriously.
Last I heard, it is still 'SerbiaMontenegro. If it just happened now, what does it have to do with with Milosevic?
It's a"lie" that the people of Slovenia voted to secede?
No. Ditto for Croatia. They both were countries in there own right. But it's how they then disfranchised their Serb citizens that infuriated Serbia.
Try to reply with something other than nonsense.
Shirley you must be joking? just say yes, please?
How convenient! Anyone who disagrees with you, you automatically labeled a "Milosevic shill" -- the refuge of the admittedly lame logician.
I do not support Milosevic, nor does the current Serb government (or most of the posters here) -- the Serbs (with the support of the Serbian Orthodox Church) tried to oust Milosevic in 1996. Remember the protests in Belgrade? But no one raised a finger to help them then, instead we waited three years later and bombed those same people. Why? Because the Kosovo Albanians had not gotten their independence bid on the table yet. The end-game wasn't ready yet.
False claim 4: "Since Clinton opposed Milosevic, he must have been a decent guy."
Milosevic was far from "a decent guy". He was a murderous opportunist who was willing to wear whatever mantle he thought would empower him at the moment -- and that was something he and Clinton had in common.
But there were two things that Milosevic was NOT -- an ideologue (communist or Serb Nationalist) Milosevic could have cared less what ideology he was wearing today or yesterday as long as it got him what he wanted, and that could only be derived from "keeping as much Yugoslavia intact as possible". Even today, you will find a variety of ethnic groups living in Serbia, including Croats, Slovenes and Muslims, so the "Hitler allusions" are just plain crap. Milosevic was not a racist -- the fight was over land and power -- not race or political persuasion. Milosevic was also NOT "the strategic aggressor" -- all of the various independence movements had been laying their groundwork for many years. I can recall back in the 1970's, NY airport being bombed by "Croat nationalists". My own Croat cousin was part of the more recent Croat indpendence movement, and he flat out told me that Germany was organizing it and backing it, which is precisely what Handke said. Milosevic may have been a bloody bastard in trying to keep the country together, but he didn't start these wars.
(Handke)Meeting with representatives of the Serbian Orthodox Church means nothing - the Serbian Orthdox Church was the most notorious and disgustingly obsequious collaborator with Communism of any of the national churches.
It really must hurt to be you.
The Serbian Orthodox Church suffered under communism just like every church in a communist country suffered under communism.
The NY Times covered the story of Bishop Sava of Shumadija in the mid-1980's who had had enough of the communists. The Yugoslav "Minister of Cults & Education" at the time, wouldn't allow "crosses on new churches to be visible from the road" and Bishop Sava declared the guy "persona non grata", openly challenging him and the communist system in Yugoslavia. We all held our breath as to what was going to happen to Bishop Sava next -- we thought that he would wind up dead or in prison. But, to everyone's surprise, the government backed down, for the first time in 40 years! I later met Bishop Sava in Los Angeles, when he became the Bishop Administrator for the Western Diocese of the SOC -- and he had no answers for why he did what he did, other than "sometimes you've had enough at the same time that God has had enough and you take a stand because it is what you must do for your own conscience".
Reality: Serbian troops - who themselves had no problem carrying out military operations on Easter and every other holiday in the Serbian Orthodox calendar, so quit whining about the US carrying out military operations on the same day - murdered easily hundreds and perhaps thousands of Kosovars including women and children.
I have no idea what you are talking about -- "thousands of Kosovars murdered on Easter"? The ICTY has only come up with less than 3,000 dead on all sides in Kosovo during a several year peiod and not "on Easter" -- and even the highest post-bombing estimates put the number on all sides dead at under 10,000! Who is the "propagandist" here, pal? You!
And what is "a Kosovar"? Or a "Bosniak"? Except a false ethnic identity created for propagandist purposes? None of the people in Yugoslavia ever referred to each other or themselves with these identifiers until they wanted countries of their own. All of a sudden, identifiers like "Boniak" made the Bosnian Muslims sound like the "real indigenous people" as opposed to those dirty "Serbians" who had actually inhabited the land, as Serbs, longer than the Muslims. Likewise, "Kosovar" -- instead of "Kosovo Albanian" to give Albanians a claim in Kosovo that they never had before. It's pure propaganda, and it is coming out of your mouth, not mine!
It is you, not me or us, who are the propagandist here -- whether this is out of pure ignorance on your part or of a deliberate campaign is anyone's guess.
America used Islamists to arm the Bosnian Muslims
The Srebrenica report reveals the Pentagon's role in a dirty war
Bill Clinton and the Pentagon were keen to be seen as creditworthy and repaid in the form of an Iran-Contra style operation - in flagrant violation of the UN security council arms embargo against all combatants in the former Yugoslavia.
The result was a vast secret conduit of weapons smuggling though Croatia. This was arranged by the clandestine agencies of the US, Turkey and Iran, together with a range of radical Islamist groups, including Afghan mojahedin and the pro-Iranian Hizbullah. Wiebes reveals that the British intelligence services obtained documents early on in the Bosnian war proving that Iran was making direct deliveries.
Arms purchased by Iran and Turkey with the financial backing of Saudi Arabia made their way by night from the Middle East. Initially aircraft from Iran Air were used, but as the volume increased they were joined by a mysterious fleet of black C-130 Hercules aircraft. The report stresses that the US was "very closely involved" in the airlift. Mojahedin fighters were also flown in, but they were reserved as shock troops for especially hazardous operations.
Light weapons are the familiar currency of secret services seeking to influence such conflicts. The volume of weapons flown into Croatia was enormous, partly because of a steep Croatian "transit tax". Croatian forces creamed off between 20% and 50% of the arms. The report stresses that this entire trade was clearly illicit. The Croats themselves also obtained massive quantities of illegal weapons from Germany, Belgium and Argentina - again in contravention of the UN arms embargo. The German secret services were fully aware of the trade.
Rather than the CIA, the Pentagon's own secret service was the hidden force behind these operations. The UN protection force, UNPROFOR, was dependent on its troop-contributing nations for intelligence, and above all on the sophisticated monitoring capabilities of the US to police the arms embargo. This gave the Pentagon the ability to manipulate the embargo at will: ensuring that American Awacs aircraft covered crucial areas and were able to turn a blind eye to the frequent nightime comings and goings at Tuzla.
Weapons flown in during the spring of 1995 were to turn up only a fortnight later in the besieged and demilitarised enclave at Srebrenica. When these shipments were noticed, Americans pressured UNPROFOR to rewrite reports, and when Norwegian officials protested about the flights, they were reportedly threatened into silence.
I hope you don't claim to be either an American or a conservative.
You cannot even get your facts straight. The accusation is that Serbs killed MEN. The women and children were given civilian bus rides to the Tuzla airport, where plenty of media awaited. They had no scratches or bruises on them.
The men, though, had started marching/sneaking out of Srebrenica before the Serbs entered the city, but they had a lot of Serbian-held territory to walk through before they got to Bosnian Muslim government territory. They did arrive there by the thousands within a week or so. Some did die in skirmishes along the way and other factors such as landmines. The autopsy reports aren't made publicly available to enable anyone to scrutinize exactly how they died. There is no disguishing between battle deaths, accidents or possible POW execution deaths.
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