Posted on 06/26/2006 7:03:57 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
Tuesday, Utahns all over the state will be heading to their new electronic voting machines.
Tuesday is primary day in Utah and the hottest contest is in Utah's third congressional district.
There, two republicans - incumbent Chris Cannon and challenger John Jacob - have been battling it out over the issue of immigration.
This race is also attracting national attention because it's viewed as a barometer of how the immigration issue sits with voters; One candidate is accusing the other of being too soft on the issue.
Monday's debate aired on KNRS 570 AM, ABC 4's sister radio station.
Recent polls show Cannon with a slight edge, but with enough undecided voters to keep Jacob within striking distance. At this point, pollsters believe the race is too close to call.
Date should be today's.
First, I didn't post this thread, second who urinated in your cornflakes.
Something snapped. I will get over it.
bump
Screw him too as it were. I am tired of it. Sure post your opinion about some event, if something new comes up, bring it up if something new happens, if somebody posts something you disagree with debate it - intelligent - but sometimes it seems like a self indulgent fixation, or some campaign operative kind of thing. And it gets old, and in my a least, causes terminal ennui.
It's hard to say what peoples' motivations are on this. There are those who want their pound of flesh to show how powerful their movement is. There are those (like me) who despise that whole approach to politics. And, since I've discovered that Jacob is a fruitcake, I can't pretend to be fair on the issue.
That would be a reasonable top of the bell curve, call, but there is a fairly high Standard Deviation on this race, as is often the case in primaries. There is certainly a material possibility for an upset, although I suspect that is unlikely. It is a gut call based on my experience however, nothing "scientific." Jacob in my view has succeeded in making the sole case for his election the sending of a message on immigration. Otherwise he seems out there. But then I am not an LDS member living in Provo. So what is way out there to me, may not be to them.
Assuming Jacob is sincere, he is a fruitcake to you and me in a priori belief terms (more perhaps to me than you; I am just not into the satan thing; certainly not when it comes to my failure to have achieved all that I want to achieve, but of course in my case not at all; I just don't think or believe in those terms). So what?
I for one don't like Tancredo gunning for actual Conservatives by backing candidates that are an embarrassment for the GOP.Jacobs is a Tancredo stooge mouthing Tancredo's words. This is not just a UTAH matter. This guy if he is elected will be voting on issues that affect all of us and so far all I know about him is that he uses bogus numbers on illegal immigrants numbers in Utah prisons, and that SATAN is making him poor. Tancredo backed Bilbray and now his first actions in congress are to belly up to the trough for pork but he is "right" on immigration.
It isn't just that, it's the giving the money to the person on the student visa, it's the fastpass proposal. With the Satan thing, it could be that he was using a common LDS figure of speech, but I'm not inclined to believe that.
The man is not a rocket scientist, as I was suggesting. What I was suggesting, is that the importance about the election, and it may be a fair basis on which to vote, is to send a message either way on immigration. The "fact" that Jacob might be a kook, with poorly thought out ideas, and a terminal inability to get his facts straight, and to swallow urban fact legends whole, akin to the way a python swallows a rat, then becomes largely irrelevant. It is for the folks or Provo and some Salt Lake City suburbs to work out.
Personally, I don't care if the guy's into voodoo. If Cannon goes down, the message it will send about illegals to the rest of the candidates on both sides of the aisle will be momentous.
So make a deal with the devil. Yep you are a Jacobs supporter. LOL
If you have any doubts about Tancredo, check out his immigration caucus website. Some caucus. It might as well be the Tancredo Vanity Project.
Does the Right Hand Know What the Far Right Hand Doeth?
by Gordon S. Jones
Quarterback Bay Buchanan, of Team America, steps up to the line of scrimmage and surveys the playing field, trying to read the defense:
1. At the Utah Republican Convention she blasts John Jacob as being weak on immigration. She and her organization endorse Merrill Cook (in fact she nominates him) against Chris Cannon in Utah’s Third District.
Fair enough. After all, Jacob had called Tom Tancredo, founder of Team America, “an opportunist,” and implied some harsher things. He also failed the UFIRE interview, provoking a very harsh e-mail attack on him.
2. But Cook lost at convention, leaving Jacob the only anti-Cannon game in town, so Buchanan calls an audible at the line of scrimmage, and Team America comes to Utah with an ad campaign endorsing Jacob.
3. Meantime, however, at a joint interview with the editors of the Provo Daily Herald, Cannon had mentioned the compromise plan being proposed by Indiana Rep. Mike Pence. Oh yes, says Jacob. Pence probably got the idea from me.
4. That is unlikely, since Pence actually got the idea from Helen Krieble of the Vernon Krieble Foundation. You can read Pence’s short description of it here, and the complete Krieble Foundation report here. Utah State Senator Howard Stephenson has mooted a related idea around.
5. But wherever Pence got it, it is doing him no good with Team America. On their website (where you can also see a picture of Chris Cannon with a bull’s eye painted on him) [since taken down — Ed.] there is a vicious attack on Mike Pence and his proposal, and Bay’s brother Pat blitzes Pence in an op-ed posted on TownHall.
So here you have Team America running ads supporting John Jacob whose position on immigration is similar to Mike Pence’s—and Chris Cannon’s for that matter—at the same time Team America targets the former for political annihilation and the latter for…well, who knows?
Time out, and back to the huddle.
NB: the use of the term “right” in the headline is not to be confused with “conservative,” at least as I understand the terms and use them. The “right” in this sense implies a certain cultural and social attitude that is often shared by conservatives, but not always. Sometimes terms like “social conservative” are used to make the distinction, but I prefer to describe myself as a conservative, but not a Man of the Right. By rights, to avoid confusion, I should have modified the headline, but I was so enamored of the wordplay I couldn’t bring myself to do it. Maybe if I could have gotten the football metaphor to work out better….
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I'm not sure how much this is a legitimate campaign for a candidate or just another bumbling effort by the buchanan's to exert influence. What will be interesting is how this will impact their future efforts should their last choice "candidate" loose.
Yes, I think the election has become more about sending a message, as opposed to any of the gritty little details, and that in the end, may or may not push Jacob over the top, although probably not. As a wild speculative guess, I give Jacob about a 20% chance to win. Beyond sending a message, which of course does have importance, will Jacob have any importance about anything? No.
You never "send messages" in elections. You elect representatives who have the responsibility of the vast Federal bureaucracy on their heads. The only way you can "send a message" in an election is in a nonbinding referendum.
And it is certainly the business of Utah voters. I think you will find that the anti-Cannon support was quite overblown.
Kinda like the juggernaut that was the Jim Gilchrist candidacy.
I don't think it matters who I support. I can't vote in Utah's elections.
Make a deal with the devil? Nope. Just that hope springs eternal. Making a sacrificial lamb out of a congressional seat.
The rest of you taking this personally is actually quite funny.
Exactly!
Torie, much of this 'harping' is due to the anti-immigration people painting Cannon supporters as "open borders". None of us are. Nor is Cannon.
Hell yes I take it personally. Jacobs is just a hapless stooge to Tom Tancredo who is making a career of stabbing great conservatives in the back in his quest to be top dog in congressional internal politics. He is a snake. I am more interested inn retaining conservatives in the GOP not purging them for Tancredo stooges.
That is a very nice post of yours. Very informative.
I think in the final analysis the message it will send isn't the one the border folks are hoping for. Will it bring into focus their issue or their inability to impact an election despite their best efforts?
Message sending can be quite important, and effective. It made Joe McCarthy into a natonal figure, who was feared, when he bagged some senator from Maryland, and caused him to lose, back before rocks cooled. I thought Gilchirst had zero chance of winning, and so posted (although I thought he had a remote chance of helping the Dem get elected, which of course did not happen, with the large margin of failure by team Gilchirst and the Dem in part, but only in part, because Gilchirst got some Dem votes in the General). Jacob is not in that category.
Amen.
And as for impact, they'll spin it into "how close they got". They'll never win, thankfully, but they won't go away.... Too much money to be made!
I think if Jacob runs close it will have an impact (particularly given that to most on the fruited plain, Jacob seems to be quite the empty vessel kook, and so it must have been the immigration issue that propelled him forward), but of course an outright win by Jacob would have a far greater impact.
Even if he squeaks out a win, the war isn't over by a long shot. The day after the election he will be challenged afresh. Conservatives and party faithful in the Third District will not rest until he is out of the game for good.
That is exactly why Hastert has decided to punt the issue. He can read polls and the public is more inclined to support Bush's stance but Hastert knows that the borderbots would go crazy if a bill like the Pence bill was passed and signed. So he is just going to allow the status quo to continue. If Tancredo had his way the GOP would never have more than 10% of the Hispanic vote and Hastert know that.
Jacob has more sense than you do.
Didn't they try that with the Bilbray campaign?
How ya doing JC? What's shakin'? Best.
It would be the most cruel case of poetic justice to see Tancredo lose in November due to his lack of attention to his own district.
It is a statistical dead heat with the difference being the margin of error. That is simply amazing given that Cannon has the weight of the establishment Republican apparatus and the President behind him. That and he's outspending Jacob by at least 2 to 1. That's what you get when you are a Republican in a strong Republican district and you vote for amnesty every chance you get and then you lie about it to your consituents.
Well, I guess he would have to, wouldn't he?
So then it's the same with you. As long as Tancredo backs them, and I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say he probably backs most of the anti-illegal alien pols, you are against them.
You are no different than the folks you paint as Tancredo tools.
Do they really think they will ever have a chance?
They have blown it... repeatedly. It reflects their political immaturity.
Do they even have a clue what they've done in the past decade? The ill-will they have nutured? Can they not see that their dispise of and their hatred for Bush and candidates like *insert your Republican globalist here*( HAR!) will come back 'round and bite 'em?
They will never be elected to squat, and I think they know that. But.... There's good money to be made in globalist fear-mongering! It has become a cottage industry... Right here in FR's River City.
He may not come out and admit he is "open borders", but Cannon is certainly WRONG on his voting record when it comes to illegal aliens. Take a look at this:
Voted against amendment to end special amnesty for certain Central Americans in 2006
Cosponsoring bill to reward illegal aliens with amnesty in 2005-2006
Tancredo is the new Ron Paul. I wonder who the new Tom Tacredo will be?
3rd party candidate for president.
First, Rep. Tancredo is one of the most conservative Republican votes in Congress. What insanity possesses you that you would want him to be defeated by a DEMOCRAT!!?
Rep. Tom Tancredo's ratings from various conservative organizations:
100% "Best and Brightest" Rating from American Conservative Union (one of only 38 other Congressmen)
100% Rating from National Right to Life Committee
100% Rating from Conservative Index (Spring '05 - 75% lifetime, tied for second highest rating)
100% Rating from Concerned Women for America
100% Rating from Christian Coalition
100% Rating from Campaign for Working Families
100% Rating from FreedomWorks
98% Rating from National Tax Limitation Committee (average since 1999)
95% "Taxpayer Hero" Rating from Citizens Against Government Waste
95% Rating from Americans for Tax Reform
95% Rating from Christian Action Network
93% Rating from Eagle Forum (tied for second highest rating)Rep. Tom Tancredo's ratings from various leftist organizations:
0% Rating from National Education Association
0% Rating from National Organization for Women
0% Rating from Brady Campaign
0% Rating from People for the American Way
0% Rating from Planned Parenthood
0% Rating from Pro-Choice America
Second, this site does not well tolerate the support of a Democrat over a Republican - especially a conservative Republican. I suggest you change your tune - although your pro-Democrat sentiment has been duly noted.
Spiff, relax.....if you don't like Cannon, by all means, don't vote for him.
Heheh
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