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Being gay 'starts in the womb'
The Telegraph ^ | 06/27/2006 | Roger Highfield

Posted on 06/26/2006 8:24:33 PM PDT by managusta

Boys with a number of elder brothers are more likely to grow up to be gay than boys with relatively fewer older brothers, younger brothers or sisters of any age - but is not the result of upbringing, says a study published today.

For each additional older brother, a boy's chance of being homosexual increases by a third, it says.

Prof Anthony Bogaert, at Brock University, in St Catherine's, Canada, says his research provides strong evidence that sexual orientation may be the result of biological processes in the womb.

"If you have a biological brother, and you never even lived with that biological brother, this leads to a higher likelihood of male homosexuality," said Prof Bogaert.

He says one possible explanation is that sexual orientation is forged in the womb as a result of a pregnant mother's immune reaction to her male sons. Her body builds up antibodies to male-specific molecules from past pregnancies that affect the developing brain of her foetus, shifting its sexual orientation.

The findings were greeted with caution yesterday by Prof Roger Short, an expert in sexual orientation at the Melbourne Royal Women's Hospital and the University of Melbourne, who said there was "much more likely to be a sociological explanation"


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: biological; brother; explanation; gay; gayagenda; homos; homosexualagenda; johnedwards; lgbt; propaganda; psychology; queers; siblings
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Nature vs nurture again.
1 posted on 06/26/2006 8:24:37 PM PDT by managusta
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To: managusta

So does it mean that it is not genetic?


2 posted on 06/26/2006 8:29:45 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: managusta
What other maladies can we blame on "starting in the womb?"

Being a pedophile?

Being a rapist?

Being a serial killer?

3 posted on 06/26/2006 8:32:24 PM PDT by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: DTogo

Being a bad dresser and sloppy housekeeper.


4 posted on 06/26/2006 8:34:12 PM PDT by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: DTogo

But of course. You don't want to see an individual taking the blame for his or her actions do you?

Victims all victims.


5 posted on 06/26/2006 8:36:06 PM PDT by BARLF
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To: managusta

I would've suspected it to have begun in the colon....


6 posted on 06/26/2006 8:36:18 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: managusta

So does that mean the ninth boy is THREE TIMES A LADY!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!


7 posted on 06/26/2006 8:36:18 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
No sir, that's where it ends. And many times with some very sick VD as well. Incidents of Syphilis, Gonorrhea, and of course as we all know HIV is staggeringly higher in Homosexual populations than any other measured. Including intravenous drug users and prostitutes.
8 posted on 06/26/2006 8:39:01 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: managusta

Yeah, right. Drawing to an inside straight begins in the womb, too. Thanks a lot, Mom.


9 posted on 06/26/2006 8:40:09 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: managusta
What horse manure!

They might as well have said, "For each additional older brother, a boy's chance of being unreasonably afraid of backing into doorknobs increases by a third....."

10 posted on 06/26/2006 8:40:48 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: managusta

So THAT'S where all those gay Mormons came from.

Oh, wait, never mind.


11 posted on 06/26/2006 8:42:47 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: managusta
BS!

Anthony Bogaert is an associate professor at Brock University in Ontario.

12 posted on 06/26/2006 8:43:06 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: managusta

Oh crap. These people are the High Priests of Perversion. I'll guarantee that this "study" will be found to be bogus, just like all the rest of these psychobabblemumbojumbo BS "studies" where evidence is cherry picked to "prove" the preconceived hypoyjesis.


13 posted on 06/26/2006 8:43:14 PM PDT by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: managusta

Too bad that, after 25+ years of looking, there's absolutely no proof of any genetic link to being gay / straight / pedophile / lesbian / transgender / girl watcher / prefer women with big'uns, etc.


14 posted on 06/26/2006 8:44:06 PM PDT by TWohlford
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To: TWohlford
I can testify that there definitely is a genetic link to being a Dirty Old Man, however. For one thing, you have to be a man...
15 posted on 06/26/2006 8:45:42 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Anthony Bogaert, a psychologist and human sexuality expert



Asexuals are getting organized and
demanding acceptance


Dr Anthony Bogaert, an associate professor of psychology at Brock University, released his analysis of a 1994 survey of the sex lives of some 18,000 Britons. He was urprised that fully 1% of respondents reported having had no feelings of sexual attraction to anyone in their lives.


http://tinyurl.com/m5eua


16 posted on 06/26/2006 8:49:26 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: DTogo
Some sexual deviancy is indeed determined in the womb.

For example: hermaphrodites....

17 posted on 06/26/2006 8:53:24 PM PDT by TeleStraightShooter (The Right To Take Life is NOT a Constitutional "Liberty" protected by the 14th Amendment)
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To: managusta

Pegs my BS meter...


18 posted on 06/26/2006 8:57:08 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: wagglebee; DBeers

ping


19 posted on 06/26/2006 9:00:35 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: managusta

And here come an amazing number of stupid comments...not one of which address the study. Conservatives just never never argue on the scientific issues...just blurt out stupid stuff. I would have a lot more respect to a discussion if it was rational.

Ok, now you can go ahead and flame away...oh, and I await the really "mature" ones to comment on my Freeper name.


20 posted on 06/26/2006 9:05:25 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Moderate Mooslims.....what's that?)
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To: managusta

Nonsense. My sister has 7 sons, and not a one of them has any effeminate mannerisms and all are married.


21 posted on 06/26/2006 9:07:34 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: managusta
You know what's really sick, stupid, disgusting, unbelievable, galling, etc.? The way these "studies" are used to "prove" something that is complete myth. Like that boys are "gay" from the womb. I will take the author's word for it that a boy who is the fourth son is more likely to be a homosexual than one who has no brothers. But does it follow from that that perversion is hereditary?? Why don't they follow the trail everyone knows about but it afraid to mention, because it decimates the idea of being "born gay"--namely, that virtually all homosexuals are the sons of an absent or overbearing father!
22 posted on 06/26/2006 9:07:45 PM PDT by guitarist
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: managusta
I have never had a problem with the idea that homosexuality may have a biological component to it. What gets me is the way that it is treated as if it is normal and not obviously what would normally be termed a disorder or a birth defect. For believers in natural selection, I have yet to hear any credible reason why homosexuality should not be viewed as an anomaly, since it obviously doesn't lead to continuation and propagation of the species.

Whenever someone suggests that it's not an innocuous difference -- like being red-headed -- and more like being born with a chronic illness that takes great effort to overcome, the radical howl as if there is something hateful about it.

24 posted on 06/26/2006 9:08:18 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (New popular baby names for daughters of liberals: Fallujah, Haditha, Murtha)
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To: guitarist

How about the super-high number of homosexuals that were abused as boys??


25 posted on 06/26/2006 9:08:25 PM PDT by guitarist
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To: managusta

This is a lie.

According to the liberals themselves, nothing starts in the womb besides a mass of unthinking, unfeeling, ungentically coded tissue that could be nothing more than an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard or a crumb of cheese.


26 posted on 06/26/2006 9:09:05 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (My head hurts.)
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To: DTogo

Mothers should not be listening to show tunes while pregnant.


27 posted on 06/26/2006 9:15:10 PM PDT by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

No flame from me, but stupid so-called "scientific" data such as this does deserve the comments, it's horse hockey.


28 posted on 06/26/2006 9:15:26 PM PDT by Theresawithanh (Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around...)
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To: managusta
[ Being gay 'starts in the womb' ]

Wrong.. being gay starts in the HEAD...

29 posted on 06/26/2006 9:18:12 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: A. Pole
So does it mean that it is not genetic?

I'm told that only half of all homosexuals are gay from birth. The other half get sucked into it later in life.

30 posted on 06/26/2006 9:22:46 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: Gumdrop

Does the seventh son have a seventh son? That's supposed to be very lucky.


31 posted on 06/26/2006 9:22:52 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: kcvl
http://www.salon.com/health/sex/urge/world/1999/11/04/size/index.html ROTFL
32 posted on 06/26/2006 9:25:15 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: managusta

It happens because his mama beats up his ol man and mama continues protecting her "precious" little boy from the big bad ol world.

Now all he can do is cry "homofobe" when the boys pick on him.


33 posted on 06/26/2006 9:29:27 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Yeah, or maybe it's suppose to read "Starts a wound"...


34 posted on 06/26/2006 9:29:50 PM PDT by Recall
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To: metmom

thanks for the ping.


35 posted on 06/26/2006 9:33:31 PM PDT by DBeers ()
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To: managusta

BS stuff again, any body worth 10 cents would understand that being the last child means that they are more likely to be a momma's boy and that the father is more likely to be dead during child's needful years of a male role model.

It is that simple...


36 posted on 06/26/2006 9:44:10 PM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: Joe 6-pack
I would've suspected it to have begun in the colon.

I shouldn't have laughed...but I did!

37 posted on 06/26/2006 9:49:12 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: phoenix0468
...THREE TIMES A LADY!!

Not nice to mock the esteemed professor. LOL!

38 posted on 06/26/2006 9:52:57 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: managusta; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; AggieCPA; Agitate; AliVeritas; AllTheRage; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping!

If you oppose the homosexualization of society
-add yourself to the ping list!

To be included in or removed from the
HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA PING LIST,
please FReepMail either DBeers or DirtyHarryY2k.

Free Republic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword = homosexualagenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

There are now 321 related news stories with ever evolving ever more conclusive and definitive pro-homosexual agenda headlines on google heralding this "study" -much similar to the fanfare that homosexual agenda activists and the MSM leftist mouth peices gave the recently reported "Lesbian Brain" study that was later almost silently corrected without any fanfare...

Well, this is the third article on this study and its "suggestion" conclusion implied as definitive (versus statiscally significant scientific conclusion) that I note posted on FR (no need to post all 321 as posting junk science repeatedly does not make it more credible):

In this study the magical "fraternal birth order effect" raises its head again -another psychological theory without ANY physical biological proof premising it.

Considering the elite psychological community has declared the homosexual disorder normal without ANY scientific basis one must wonder why this purely psychological theory premised in subjective declarations exists let alone is pursued by psychologists seeking physical biological causes YET to be found? One must also wonder why other behavioral disorders attributed to the "fraternal birth order effect" seem to get published less frequently?

The cause(s) of the fraternal birth order effect in male homosexuality.

James WH.

The Galton Laboratory, University College London, Wolfson House, 4 Stephenson Way, London NW1 2HE.

It has been established that the probability that a man is homosexual is positively related to his number of older brothers, but not older sisters when the brothers are accounted for. This is known as the 'fraternal birth order' effect. In the past, efforts have been made to explain this phenomenon in terms of several alternative biological hypotheses and a psychosocial hypothesis. This note examines how well these hypotheses accommodate the fraternal birth order effect. It is concluded that: (1) the evidence for the hypothesis of maternal immunoreactivity to the male fetus is weak; (2) the evidence for the intrauterine hormone exposure hypothesis is also weak; (3) the evidence for the hypothesis of postnatal learning is stronger. Lastly, there seem likely to be causes common to male homosexuality and paedophilia. They may include sexual (or quasi-sexual) experience in childhood or adolescence.

PMID: 14989531 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

-some other interesting observations attributed to the "fraternal birth order effect":

Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation in pedophiles.

Birth order in homosexual versus heterosexual sex offenders against children, pubescents, and adults.

39 posted on 06/26/2006 9:53:15 PM PDT by DBeers ()
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To: managusta
"If you have a biological brother, and you never even lived with that biological brother, this leads to a higher likelihood of male homosexuality,"

hahahaha, more homosexual agenda lunacy is proposed for my entertainment and pleasure.

40 posted on 06/26/2006 9:55:33 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: guitarist

"How about the super-high number of homosexuals that were abused as boys??"

How ABOUT that?

[/Mel Allen]

Seriously, what difference does it make? This study shows their desperation--they are trying to avoid the negative repercussions of either of the two possible reasons for homosexuality, which are:

1) It's genetic--which means gays will be selectively aborted as soon as the gene is found.

2) It's behavioral--which means they should be stopped from recruiting, and will be.

Here they try to blend the two to solve a 'problem,' and create difficulty for those who would stuff `em back in the closet. First, large families usually are fairly conservative, so better in gays' minds to make them smaller and more likely to produce the doting mothers and controlling fathers that we see time and again produce diamonds and deviants (or both). Second, if there is both a genetic AND behavioral component selectively breeding out queerdom isn't so easy as 1 or 2 make it out to be.


41 posted on 06/26/2006 9:55:36 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ('Is' and 'amnesty' both have clear, plain meanings. Are Billy Jeff, Pence, McQueeg & Bush related?)
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To: Alex Murphy

"I'm told that only half of all homosexuals are gay from birth. The other half get sucked into it later in life."

NO, NO, NO, they are not recruited. It's the way they are reared that does it.


42 posted on 06/26/2006 9:57:01 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ('Is' and 'amnesty' both have clear, plain meanings. Are Billy Jeff, Pence, McQueeg & Bush related?)
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To: managusta
Calling this 'science' makings the global warming hysteria seem like credible research. Statistically, this garbage is only outdone by its unfounded assertions about things which the study doesn't even claim to prove.

They can't explain why Ellen Degenerates girlfriends keep switching sides. Not that anybody can.

43 posted on 06/26/2006 10:00:51 PM PDT by bpjam (If we take 12M illegals, they have to take Kennedy & McCain!)
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To: managusta

Balderdash. Science with an agenda.


44 posted on 06/26/2006 10:01:17 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: managusta

As the Brits themselves say, "Rubbish".


45 posted on 06/26/2006 10:08:00 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: managusta

I used to believe that being homosexual might have had some genetic component. I saw the two main researchers on TV being interviewed around 1992. They were both obviously gay and had their own agenda. I have since believed that it is simply another personality disorder. Sadly, the American Association of Psychologists believes it is another 'variation' on normal. My question is 'what's normal about it?'.


46 posted on 06/26/2006 10:11:03 PM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: managusta

I used to believe that being homosexual might have had some genetic component. I saw the two main researchers on TV being interviewed around 1992. They were both obviously gay and had their own agenda. I have since believed that it is simply another personality disorder. Sadly, the American Association of Psychologists believes it is another 'variation' on normal. My question is 'what's normal about it?'.


47 posted on 06/26/2006 10:11:35 PM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: DTogo
You cannot compare a homosexual with the deviants you've cited (pedophile, serial killer)

We're only discussing the instinct to be sexually attracted to your own sex.

If you're suggesting that certain men who have a severely dominant feminine side...who sashay, gesture, hold that pinky in the air...

If you're suggesting that certain women who swear off makeup, cut their hair like men, dress like men, walk like bouncers and swear like troopers...

...if you're suggesting that's a concious act to feed their chosen perversion...well you're nuts. That is not an act, IMO..

A woman can be trapped in a man's body and vice versa.

It's common sense if you open your eyes and check your bibles at the door. ;^)

48 posted on 06/26/2006 10:11:35 PM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Alex Murphy
...only half of all homosexuals are gay from birth.

How does that square with findings that there is no gene for homosexuality? Whatever draws one to this life style, on what basis can it be accepted as normal?

As to the professor and his womb theory, I'll chalk it up as an "urban myth".

50 posted on 06/26/2006 10:18:05 PM PDT by IIntense
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