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Senate blocks flag-burn ban
Herald Sun ^ | 28 June 2006

Posted on 06/27/2006 5:12:13 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher

THE Republican majority in the US Senate has failed by just one vote to amend the constitution to ban desecration of the national flag.

The motion was backed by 66 votes, one short of the two thirds majority need to get a constitutional amendment passed.

Thirty-four senators voted against.

The measure, backed by President George W. Bush, had been promoted by the Republican majority as it tries to rally its conservative base ahead of key congressional elections in November.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; burnbabyburn; commonsenseprevails; congress; failed; failedpandering; flagburning; freespeechlives; gop; ussenate
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So close....
1 posted on 06/27/2006 5:12:14 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
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To: Aussie Dasher

Who voted against?


2 posted on 06/27/2006 5:14:19 PM PDT by Solamente (Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out...)
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To: Aussie Dasher

In this we see the democrats unwillingness to allow the
States(the people) to have their say.


3 posted on 06/27/2006 5:15:30 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

So, besides the two senators from the Peoples' Republic of Maryland, ditto Massabullsh**, who were the ones who voted against?


4 posted on 06/27/2006 5:19:16 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969. - St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle!)
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To: Aussie Dasher
the US Senate has failed by just one vote to amend the constitution

If I recall my high school civics lesson correctly, the Congress does not have the power to Amend the Constitution. They only have the power to recommend an amendment, which then must be approved by 2/3 of the states.

Why does the press continually misrepresent simple facts?

5 posted on 06/27/2006 5:20:36 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least drunken sailors spend their own money, Congress doesn't.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Rome is burning.


6 posted on 06/27/2006 5:21:12 PM PDT by jetson
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To: Warthogtjm
So, besides the two senators from the Peoples' Republic of Maryland

Add the two from California to that list.

7 posted on 06/27/2006 5:21:42 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least drunken sailors spend their own money, Congress doesn't.)
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To: Michael.SF.

Force of habit!


8 posted on 06/27/2006 5:22:11 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Aussie Dasher

Good. Free Speech survives another election cycle.


10 posted on 06/27/2006 5:25:46 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (Man Law: You Poke It, You Own It)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Mark Dayton (D,MN) voted for it.

I dropped my Fosters.


11 posted on 06/27/2006 5:26:07 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Carry Daily, Apply Sparingly.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

What in the world do we need the Senate for? If it fell off the earth today, no one but C-Span 2 would miss it (note: they aren't even C-Span 1). It's a worthless money pit where political hacks go to impress each other and waste their lives chewing over inconsequential things.


12 posted on 06/27/2006 5:26:16 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: Michael.SF.

Feinstein voted yes.


13 posted on 06/27/2006 5:35:51 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Lunatic Fringe

Agreed.


14 posted on 06/27/2006 5:36:06 PM PDT by contemplator (Capitalism gets no Rock Concerts)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Two Republican in the UseLess Senseless voted against the bill.

And it was not any of the usual RINO suspects. It was Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Robert Bennett of Utah.

I am starting to think the Republicans have an intentional plan to gum up the works so they can make it look like they're trying, but, oh, darn, we didn't have the votes, so the liberals get their way again....

Chafee and Specter had taken enough heat lately. Voinovich sunk the estate tax so he did his "good deed" for the year. DeWine has too tough a re-election fight. So it's McConnell's and Bennett's turn to crap on the will of the voters.

15 posted on 06/27/2006 5:37:03 PM PDT by GoBucks2002
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Feinstein voted yes

Well, I never would have guessed.


16 posted on 06/27/2006 5:40:22 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least drunken sailors spend their own money, Congress doesn't.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

The senate worms can't uphold and protect the amendments already in place. A new amendment would be another one they would dither over and ignore.


17 posted on 06/27/2006 5:42:02 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: GoBucks2002
The Constitution doesn't need this amendment.

Neither did we need a Pledge Of Allegiance to the Flag until a 19th century socialist promoted such.I find it instructive the Founders apparently saw no such need .

Free political speech means all views may be expressed no matter how stupid so the public can see the truth.

I pity those who fight for a piece of cloth and ignore the Constitutional principles.If only people would demand those sworn to uphold the Constitution did so this debate wouldn't exist.

19 posted on 06/27/2006 5:48:58 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
Good. Free Speech survives another election cycle.

Burning the symbol of this nation, and what it stands for, is not free speech.

IMO.

Main Entry: 2flag Function: noun Usage: often attributive Etymology: perhaps from 1flag 1 : a usually rectangular piece of fabric of distinctive design that is used as a symbol (as of a nation), as a signaling device, or as a decoration

20 posted on 06/27/2006 5:50:49 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
Are you a flag burner?

If not, this amendment would have had aboslutely no effect on you.

If you're a flag burner, you're on the wrong website.

21 posted on 06/27/2006 5:52:41 PM PDT by JCEccles
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To: JCEccles
You know what I find reprehensible?

The displaying of unlit ragged flags nailed to the side of buildings as a "patriotic" gesture.

The cheap Chinese made plastic flags used as lawn decorations and blown about with the other trash.

The flag in full color on someone's shirt dirtied with softdrink and pizza crumbs.

Faded stickers and decals on windows,vehicles,and ? just recognizable as being the U.S. flag.

And all those people who claim such neglected images are patriotic displays.

The flag burners are openly making a political statement but what statement is made by trivializing the national symbol?

22 posted on 06/27/2006 6:04:39 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: tet68

The next time you see someone burning the American Flag: kick his butt! That way we won't need an amendment. Just tell the cops when they come to arrest you that you were exercising your first amendment right to free speech as you kick butt when you are angry as words escape you. We are too wimped out and scared of the gov't here in America. Why if we were not afraid to keep and bear arms there would have been no 9/11 as there would have been at least several armed citizens on board to shoot the foolish arabs with box cutters! Makes me mad when I think about it. The Israelis should also kick arab butt. Force march all the arabs in Gaza to Egypt and all the Arabs in the West Bank to Jordan. End of problem for them. Get tough America! GEt tough Israel! Now I feel better. thank you.


23 posted on 06/27/2006 6:12:13 PM PDT by isaac32
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To: Michael.SF.

Probably because they don't KNOW them!


24 posted on 06/27/2006 6:12:17 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: JCEccles
Flag-burning is a political statement, as distasteful as it may be. Political speech is protected by the First Amendment.

It seems every two years Congress drags this tired amendment out from under a pile of more important bills just so they can be on record.

25 posted on 06/27/2006 6:12:36 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (Man Law: You Poke It, You Own It)
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To: Aussie Dasher

To some, the flag was not just a piece of cloth....

At Ringgold Gap, Ga., on November 27, 1863, the 1st Arkansas Infantry captured the colors of the 76th Ohio Infantry in a desperate fight, in which eight color bearers of the Ohio regiment were shot down. On September 20, 1916, this flag was returned by the survivors of the 1st Arkansas Infantry during the thirty eighth annual reunion of the survivors of the 76th Ohio at Newark, Ohio.

To William C. Montgomery, of Johnstown, was given the glory of receiving the flag for the 76th Ohio Regiment.
Mr. Montgomery said: "I was the first of the seven color bearers to carry the flag into battle when the 76th engaged the 1st Arkansas at Ringgold Gap, Ga. I had not proceeded very far with 'Old Glory' when a shell carried away my right arm, and the colors fell. One by one six other men picked up the flag only to be shot down.

"The colors of a regiment are the poetry of the service. The men love their banner; they march under it; they fight under it. If the color bearer falls, another seizes it and holds it aloft, and so on until the battle ends. The firm determination is to keep it flying at whatever cost; and if in the stress of war it is lost, the sorrow is universal and profound.


26 posted on 06/27/2006 6:13:35 PM PDT by XRdsRev (The Democrat Party - Keeping Black folks on the "Plantation" since 1790)
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To: isaac32

The First Amendment does not protect violent acts against others.


27 posted on 06/27/2006 6:16:12 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (Man Law: You Poke It, You Own It)
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To: Lunatic Fringe

I said that tongue in cheek. I am quite serious however, that flag burners should have their butts spontaneously kicked and I can assure you the problem of flag burning will go away without another law from useless pols.


28 posted on 06/27/2006 6:20:21 PM PDT by isaac32
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To: Aussie Dasher

If you look carefully you'll probably see cover for those Dem Senators that are running for re-election this year. As well, there were 3 GOP Senators who voted Nay.

Yea's - 66
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---34
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)


29 posted on 06/27/2006 6:25:51 PM PDT by kempster
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To: Michael.SF.
Why does the press continually misrepresent simple facts?

Because journalists are, by and large, ignorant sluts.

30 posted on 06/27/2006 6:28:17 PM PDT by TheGeezer (I.will.never.vote.for.John.McCain.)
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To: tet68
In this we see the democrats unwillingness to allow the States(the people) to have their say.

They represent Americans. And they voted. That's the way it works, whether you like it or not. I disagree with 90% of the crap the Congress passes and W signs. But, that's the way it works.

31 posted on 06/27/2006 6:38:02 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Lunatic Fringe

"Good. Free Speech survives another election cycle."

You have got to be kidding me.
I don’t consider burning the Flag as “free speech”. It is an expression, an expression of rage and hatred against this country.
• Running down a neighborhood street naked yelling foul things at all the houses you pass is an expression and is against the law.
• Using Road-Rage against someone that cut you off on the freeway is an expression and is against the law.
• Burning a cross in front of someone’s home is an expression and is against the law.

All three of these “expressions” anger people, disturb the peace, and invite at worse a violent response from those it offends. Do you not think burning Old Glory fits into this sort of expression? I do.


32 posted on 06/27/2006 6:38:06 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: kittymyrib
What in the world do we need the Senate for? If it fell off the earth today, no one but C-Span 2 would miss it (note: they aren't even C-Span 1). It's a worthless money pit where political hacks go to impress each other and waste their lives chewing over inconsequential things.

I agree. I'd cut their pay back to what it was in 1787... one dollar a year.

33 posted on 06/27/2006 6:40:53 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: isaac32

I dont like flag burning either. But I dislike governments that limit our rights even more.


34 posted on 06/27/2006 6:41:13 PM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (Man Law: You Poke It, You Own It)
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To: Solamente
Hillary for one. Please note that it was from Hillary's mouth that I first heard about the Flag Burning issue. But she's playing both sides?? Said it should be done by Legislation and not by an amendment. She co-sponsered legislation for it at one time. Very Clever!! She voted no to cover the "Free Speech" poll that they probably took.

Of course, she was also the first to call for an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College after 2000. It was put in place to counter "bloc" voting which is exactly what the Dems head for.

Always remember that if Gore had won HIS OWN STATE, he would have won the election.

35 posted on 06/27/2006 6:49:15 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: GoBucks2002
Passing an amendment is the wrong mechanism to stop desecration to our Flag. We've had two Constitutional amendment resolutions in as many months. At this rate we may as sell lottery tickets. The winner gets to put forth is own resolution. Do we want to see the Constitution look like our tax code?
36 posted on 06/27/2006 6:49:23 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Cobra64
Do we want to see the Constitution look like our tax code?

Hundreds of Amendments have been proposed or introduced over the years. Remember, this would still have to go to the states, where 38 of them would have to ratify it.

I think we are a long way from over-amending the Constitution.

37 posted on 06/27/2006 6:54:45 PM PDT by GoBucks2002
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To: GoBucks2002
Good point. I just get nervous about folks wanting to mess with the Constitution. My paranoia began when libs began spewing "the constitution is a living document."
38 posted on 06/27/2006 6:57:43 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Liberal loonies and Al queeda would thank the Dems and other libertarians for voting against the flag burning amendment.

They show no respect for the American flag whatsoever.


39 posted on 06/27/2006 6:59:57 PM PDT by GregH
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To: hoosierham

Neither did we need a Pledge Of Allegiance to the Flag until a 19th century socialist promoted such.I find it instructive the Founders apparently saw no such need .




Have you contributed to Mr. Newdow's legal fund? I bet you have.


40 posted on 06/27/2006 7:02:23 PM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: Aussie Dasher

So if they put little American flag symbols on cigarettes, can I smoke it in a bar?


41 posted on 06/27/2006 7:43:28 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: GregH
Liberal loonies and Al queeda would thank the Dems and other libertarians for voting against the flag burning amendment.

umm..no. The only countries that outlaw burning or desecrating their national flag are China, Cuba, Iran, and Iraq.

So if it had passed, America would be in some great company there. (/sarc)

42 posted on 06/27/2006 7:52:10 PM PDT by Deadshot Drifter (Lib Wackos have the Center for Science in the Public Interest. CRIDers have the Discovery Institute)
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To: Deadshot Drifter

'umm..no. The only countries that outlaw burning or desecrating their national flag are China, Cuba, Iran, and Iraq.'

Any proof for these claims? I really doubt any nation apart from the morally depraved would classify flag burning as free speech.

As for being in great company, look at the kind of people that support Flag burning as a free speech right Hillary, Ted Kennedy, Kerry, Durbin, Michael moore.. almost all the loony libs at DU etc.. some great bunch of crowd the amendment opposers attract there. (/s)


43 posted on 06/27/2006 9:16:21 PM PDT by GregH
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To: Deadshot Drifter
The only countries that outlaw burning or desecrating their national flag are China, Cuba, Iran, and Iraq.

That list is not correct. I suspect that you would be in a world of hurt if you were to burn the North Korean flag in the main square in Pyongyang. Likewise try burning the Saudi Arabian flag (the one with "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet" written on it) in downtown Mecca by the Grand Mosque.

44 posted on 06/27/2006 9:20:00 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: LasVegasMac
Burning the symbol of this nation, and what it stands for, is not free speech.

How does desecrating a US flag burn what this nation stands for?
45 posted on 06/27/2006 9:54:20 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: NavyCanDo
Running down a neighborhood street naked yelling foul things at all the houses you pass is an expression and is against the law.

Disturbing the peace is an action that negatively impacts others in their private residences. This is not analagous to flag desecration.

Using Road-Rage against someone that cut you off on the freeway is an expression and is against the law.

Physically endangering the life of another is not analagous to flag desecration.

Burning a cross in front of someone’s home is an expression and is against the law

Trespass, arson and possible endangerment of others is not comparable to flag desecration.
46 posted on 06/27/2006 9:57:16 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio

To burn the American flag is to burn the freedom of speech.

If it didn't pass this time- GOP congress, election year, right before the 4th of July -it's never going to pass. What a shame.


47 posted on 06/27/2006 10:25:35 PM PDT by Right-Wing Champion (God Bless the USA)
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To: Right-Wing Champion
To burn the American flag is to burn the freedom of speech.

It's a testament to our freedom that we allow unpopular expressions.

If it didn't pass this time- GOP congress, election year, right before the 4th of July -it's never going to pass.

Correct, and nor should it. It would protect a symbol at the cost of cheapening what the symbol stands for.

48 posted on 06/27/2006 10:39:21 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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To: Lunatic Fringe

Lighting a fire is not free speech.


49 posted on 06/27/2006 11:24:12 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
I dont like flag burning either. But I dislike governments that limit our rights even more.

Where is lighting a fire mentioned in the Constitution?

50 posted on 06/27/2006 11:28:13 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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