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Defense Dept. Imposes Loyalty Test on American Jews
Insight Magazine ^ | 6/28/2006

Posted on 06/28/2006 6:45:43 AM PDT by Ancesthntr

The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel. Government sources and attorneys said the Pentagon has sought and succeeded in removing security clearance from dozens of Americans, mostly Jews, who either lived, worked or have relatives in Israel. Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.

[Note - this is all that is available to non-subscribers to Insight.]


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: israel; jews; loyalty; pentagon
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Does anyone know if this is true? It would be nice to know, one way or the other. I simply cannot believe that it is, but one never knows.

Also, is the US planning to attack Israel - or is this merely a means of questioning the loyalty of Jews in the armed forces, and Jews in general? Did we ask Eisenhower if he would fight against the Germans? Do we ask people of English extraction if they'd join in an invasion of England? Do we ask Arabs or Moslems if they'll join in an invasion of their former homeland?

1 posted on 06/28/2006 6:45:45 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
Since Peter King was in bed with Gerry Adams has his security clearance been questioned?

This seems rather peculiar but there are people in the Pentagon that clearly need retiring.

2 posted on 06/28/2006 6:51:33 AM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: Ancesthntr

I'd imagine this is SOP when evaluating anyone with ties to a foreign power and not just limited to Jews.


3 posted on 06/28/2006 6:52:50 AM PDT by vikingd00d
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To: Ancesthntr

It's not Israel. Security clearances, especially high-security clearances are often not given when the subject has relatives living in countries outside of the US.

Similarly, a long period of living in another country can cause denial of a security clearance.

One of the problems is the risk of a foreign relative being held hostage as a means of accessing information. Also, during security clearance investigations, lots of people are interviewed. Tough to interview folks in another country.

It's not limited to Israel, quite frankly.


4 posted on 06/28/2006 6:53:28 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: Ancesthntr
Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.

This is a standard question asked of ex-nationals of a particular country when obtaining a TS security clearance. Insight may be guilty of a 'drive by shooting' here. If these American jews had relatives in Israel, or have worked in Israel for a while, it's a legitmate question. Having a Security Clearances is a privlage, not a right.
5 posted on 06/28/2006 6:53:59 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: OldFriend

Unless we've discovered something that the public isn't aware of yet.

I'll wait and see what it's about instead of assuming it's a retarded baseless change.


6 posted on 06/28/2006 6:54:07 AM PDT by TheZMan (Proud supporter of the anti-conservopussy movement.)
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To: TheZMan

I suspect this is more in relation to the passing of military secrets to Israel than it is about loyalty if the US attacked Israel which is beyond remote.


7 posted on 06/28/2006 6:56:06 AM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: TheZMan
SSDD? American Jews are NOT treated like Americans - from the FBI to the US State Dept.
even as those that are accepted, cheered the 911 Atrocities and delayed translating important texts
required for American security.

FBI: Jews need not apply for Arabic linguist jobs - Thread 1

FBI: Jews need not apply for Arabic linguist jobs - Thread 2

FBI Arab translators cheered Sept. 11 at FBI !!!!

8 posted on 06/28/2006 6:57:30 AM PDT by Diogenesis (Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: Ancesthntr

I thought this was an article from the 1940s or before. Are we demanding the same loyalty from the Mexicans crossing our border?


9 posted on 06/28/2006 6:57:35 AM PDT by madison10
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To: Ancesthntr

BS


10 posted on 06/28/2006 7:01:38 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Jack Bauer" is Arabic for "I'm f*cked.")
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To: MineralMan

"Security clearances, especially high-security clearances are often not given when the subject has relatives living in countries outside of the US."
Where did you find this information?


11 posted on 06/28/2006 7:03:06 AM PDT by em2vn
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To: CholeraJoe
BS

For people lacking your intimate knowledge of governmental affairs, a more detailed explanation might be necessary. Insight is not your average Leftie rag, so I don't have an ingrained bias against its stories. I want the facts, then I'll make judgements.

12 posted on 06/28/2006 7:05:24 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: MineralMan; Perdogg
It's not limited to Israel, quite frankly.

This is a standard question asked of ex-nationals of a particular country when obtaining a TS security clearance. Insight may be guilty of a 'drive by shooting' here.

Let's hope that this is the case - that it is SOP and that Insight was guilty of not telling the whole truth.

13 posted on 06/28/2006 7:08:10 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
"We" did ask Americans of Japanese ancestry if they would fight against Japan. "We" put them in concentration camps, and segregated units in the Army. Those units served with honour and distinction ... in Europe. I don't know why DOD is concerned about folks with relatives in Israel ... or even if this 'report' is true. But it's not unprecedented, and the rantings of the perpetually offended to the contrary notwithstanding, it's not evidence of so-called 'antisemitism'.
14 posted on 06/28/2006 7:09:13 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Ancesthntr

I spent 20 years in the DOD, with high levels of security clearance almost the entire time. In all of my background checks, I was never asked about religion or relatives in other countries. (I have some) If in fact this is happening, it is a radical departure from past procedure.


15 posted on 06/28/2006 7:09:50 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Jack Bauer" is Arabic for "I'm f*cked.")
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To: em2vn

"Where did you find this information?
"

Personal experience. I had a very high clearance at one time.


16 posted on 06/28/2006 7:15:11 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: CholeraJoe

You have to list on your security clearance forms all relatives who not US citizens and all relatives by marriage who not US citizens. Also if you do business overseas or hold a foreign passport.

Once you obtain your clearance, you are now required to fill out a foreign contact report if have anything to do with a foreign national.


17 posted on 06/28/2006 7:15:48 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Ancesthntr
"Does anyone know if this is true? It would be nice to know, one way or the other. I simply cannot believe that it is, but one never knows."


The real world tends to be a bit confusing to many.

This article is about the dreaded persecution of poor Jews. The next may be about the poor hypenated Americans.

The world is full of victims.




18 posted on 06/28/2006 7:18:47 AM PDT by G.Mason (And what is intelligence if not the craft of outthinking our adversaries?)
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To: Perdogg
I'm aware of that and did so but was never questioned during my interview. I guess Wales is not a hostile country like Israel.

When I lived in DC, I filled out at least one foreign contact report a week from cabbies, waiters, etc.

19 posted on 06/28/2006 7:21:26 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Jack Bauer" is Arabic for "I'm f*cked.")
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To: Perdogg
So if your brother's wife is a Canadian citizen, you have to file a report every time you have a conversation with your sister-in-law...even if they live in the US?

I know someone whose father's security clearance got extra scrutiny because his last name was spelled the same as a leading figure in the American Communist Party...in effect, he had to prove that they were not related. (In fact, the names originated in different countries but just happened to be spelled alike.)

20 posted on 06/28/2006 7:21:40 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
theoretically yes.
21 posted on 06/28/2006 7:23:10 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: MineralMan

Interesting parallel. In good old Soviet Union, if you had relatives abroad, you were tainted and were barred from some occupations.


22 posted on 06/28/2006 7:26:33 AM PDT by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: CholeraJoe
When I got my security clearance renewed I got asked about stuff prior to my initial security clearance. The investigator was a babe, but she was tough on me. I thought she was interviewing to marry me. ;)
23 posted on 06/28/2006 7:27:01 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Ancesthntr
Every ethnic Jew in the world has the right to be or become a citizen of Israel. Many American Jews have dual citizenship, and many Israelis vote in our elections. When you become a dual citizen, just like in the U.S., you swear to "support and defend" that foreign country, which of course causes a conflict of interest for those dual citizens. In my opinion, no one with dual citizenship should be granted a high security clearance!
24 posted on 06/28/2006 7:31:01 AM PDT by Tangaray
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To: CholeraJoe

Only one???


25 posted on 06/28/2006 7:31:58 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Perdogg

Dang! I always got the guys who looked like they shopped for clothes at Goodwill.


26 posted on 06/28/2006 7:33:08 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Jack Bauer" is Arabic for "I'm f*cked.")
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To: Perdogg

Did you say "I do"?


27 posted on 06/28/2006 7:33:34 AM PDT by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: G.Mason
I simply wish to know the truth - the whole truth. If this is something that is done with everyone, without regard to their religion or national origin, then it is probably a good thing. If, OTOH, Jews are being singled out, then it is wrong. I simply want to know the facts, then I'll judge. As to "dreaded persecution of poor Jews," you might wish to review your history a bit, particularly European history during the Crusades, during the Black Death, during the Inquisition and in the 1933-1945 period. It might also be good for you to look into why Israel is the only country on Earth barred from membership in the UN Security Council, and why the Israeli version of the Red Cross (Magen David Adom) was only just (within the last 2 weeks) allowed to have its own symbol (which the Arabs and Iranians have had for decades). Sorry, but sometimes people that feel persecuted ARE, in fact, persecuted.

Again, I'm simply looking for facts. Others on this thread have, thankfully, provided some.

28 posted on 06/28/2006 7:37:33 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Tangaray

No expert here, but the concept of dual citizenship was my first thought as well.


29 posted on 06/28/2006 7:42:28 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: Tangaray

On the contrary. Very very very few American Jews have dual citizenship.

When American Jews have dual citizenship it is mostly because, like me, they are immigrants. How many American Jews are Israeli immigrants?

If an American Jew emigrated to Israel he/she can attain Israeli citizenship. In the same way as an American Catholic who immigrated to Canada can seek Canadian citizenship. It may be easier and more automatic for the Jew in Israel, but the process is the same.


30 posted on 06/28/2006 7:43:56 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bandar Bush in 08: Continue the Legacy)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.

..................

31 posted on 06/28/2006 7:49:30 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: CholeraJoe

This one was a babe. Wearing tight clothes, open low cut blouse.


32 posted on 06/28/2006 7:50:03 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Mi-kha-el

It is necessary to recognize that not only our "enemies" conduct intelligence activities inside the United States. Some of our friends, like Israel and France also have agents here. Much of their activities are what you might call corporate intelligence, trying to pick up information on new technologies in computers, aviation, etc. Research and development is expensive, so sometimes it's cheaper to steal secrets. These allies also want to have political and military intelligence as well. If they have dirt on which Congressmen or which Pentagon officials are having affairs, financial problems, etc., there's a potential to exploit them for information. They may not be our adversaries militarily, but they can use that info in negotiating import/export trade deals, treaties, getting favorable consideration when legislation comes to a vote, or getting a look at the strategies and intentions of our government.


33 posted on 06/28/2006 7:50:38 AM PDT by gregwest
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To: Perdogg

Probably intentional to entrap you.


34 posted on 06/28/2006 7:51:31 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Jack Bauer" is Arabic for "I'm f*cked.")
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To: CholeraJoe

She was a real Mata Hari.


35 posted on 06/28/2006 7:52:43 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Sabramerican

Dear Sabra, you'recomparing apples to oranges. You compared "Catholics" to "Jews". One is a religion, the other is an ethnic group, many members of which may not be religious at all. From what I read, a majority of Jews are agnostic now, partly due to the holocaust. But every Jew can move to Israel, and can claim citizenship and protection, even after committing crimes in their previous contry. What's it called? The law of return? Anyway, dual citizenship necessarily implies dual loyalty, and they should not be given high level security clearances.


36 posted on 06/28/2006 7:57:24 AM PDT by Tangaray
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To: Perdogg
This one was a babe. Wearing tight clothes, open low cut blouse.

It was a test. Did you pass?

37 posted on 06/28/2006 8:01:35 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Ancesthntr

Oh damn, there goes my dream of a brilliant career in the DOD.


38 posted on 06/28/2006 8:01:51 AM PDT by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 10-17)
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To: Diogenesis

"American Jews are NOT treated like Americans"

Incorrect. Scrutiny is properly applied to people with ties to countries that regularly spy on us. Even though we are allies, Israel is prolific, and generally successful in spying on us, so ties to Israel are scrutinized.

Ties to the UK, Canada, Australia, for example are generally no given as much scrutiny because those countries do not spy on us, rather, we have extensive intelligence sharing agreements

I think that most American Jews would agree that America is probably the best place in the world to be Jewish.

If you think otherwise, as you apparently do, you are just wrong.


39 posted on 06/28/2006 8:02:43 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: Tangaray

You're absurd.

Lapsed Catholics are Catholics and non practicing Jews are Jews in the exact same way.

It's not true that every Jew can claim Israeli citizenship if they moved to Israel. And that is the point anyway, isn't it?

They need to move to Israel. If they stay in the US they are not Israelis. If they are American Jews then they didn't move to Israel.

I dare you to name any prominent American Jew in any field that you care to mention who is a dual citizen and this not acquire the status in the same way I did by immigrating to the United States.


40 posted on 06/28/2006 8:03:36 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bandar Bush in 08: Continue the Legacy)
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To: Tangaray
In my opinion, no one with dual citizenship should be granted a high security clearance!

I agree. However, that is not what is at issue in the Insight article. The report addressed Americans who "lived, worked or have relatives" in Israel. I can certainly understand the issue of divided loyalty, but by your criteria it is likely that only a miniscule portion of the people involved would have been denied their clearances or had them pulled.

41 posted on 06/28/2006 8:03:40 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel.

Anyone ever thought about doing that to muslims?

42 posted on 06/28/2006 8:06:44 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (If Christians can go nuclear in a biblical way, would the Israelis go nuclear in a talmudic way?)
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To: Sabramerican

typo= who is a dual citizen and did not acquire the status


43 posted on 06/28/2006 8:06:53 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bandar Bush in 08: Continue the Legacy)
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To: Tangaray
But every Jew can move to Israel, and can claim citizenship and protection, even after committing crimes in their previous contry.

Tell that to Meyer Lansky. Also to the Jewish guy from the Baltimore area who committed a murder a few years ago and then ran to Israel. Both claimed citizenship in Israel and protection under the laws of Israel, pursuant to the Law of Return, and both were returned to the US to face justice - as they should have been.

You compared "Catholics" to "Jews". One is a religion, the other is an ethnic group, many members of which may not be religious at all.

So, in your view, Catholics have a religion (sounds good so far), but Jews do not? WTF??? Do me a favor, look out the window...I'd like to know what color the sky is on your planet.

44 posted on 06/28/2006 8:09:51 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr; Alouette; Tangaray
Tell that to Meyer Lansky

Or Alouette's son.

45 posted on 06/28/2006 8:13:26 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bandar Bush in 08: Continue the Legacy)
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To: Centurion2000
Anyone ever thought about doing that to muslims?

As I mentioned earlier, if this is done to everyone, if an attempt is made to find any hint of divided loyalty in any person, then this is a good thing - at least if one is interested in the security of this country, as I am. OTOH, if only Jews are being questioned and targetted this way, then something stinks.

46 posted on 06/28/2006 8:13:33 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Sabramerican; Alouette
Or Alouette's son. I must admit ignorance as to that story.
47 posted on 06/28/2006 8:14:56 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Sabramerican
Or Alouette's son.

Which one of my sons? The one who served in the IDF? Or the one who lives in Russia? Or maybe the one in Canada?

48 posted on 06/28/2006 8:16:17 AM PDT by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 10-17)
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To: Ancesthntr
Frankly, I don't know why anyone would associate American Jews with the Israelis. They may have the same religion and ancestry but that's about it.

Jason Pollard, American Jew/Israeli spy is a pretty good example of the kind of person who would sell out this country for his own agenda. If you look at the American Jews from Abby Hoffman to Medea Benjamin, you will notice that most are America hating Liberal nutcases. The ACLU is top heavy with this sort of crusading Jewish Leftist. Hollywood is a prime example, but not useful in this argument since it is hard to discern true motives when it comes to the celebrity culture. A check of any prominent "social awareness" cause will usually have American Jews at the helm. I can think of two good old time Democrats and straight shooters who married Jewish Leftist women and are now virtually amputated from their former selves. Jimmy Breslin and Joe Calafano. They are now just irrelevant.

The most disturbing part of American Jewish Leftist Liberalism is it's astonishing hatred of Israel. There is a U.S. Jewish faction of the anti-war movement that regularly demonstrates wearing pro-Pali apparel and carrying signs supporting the right of return. These people best embody the fundamental wrong thinking of so many American Jewish Liberals.

Then there are the 9/11 Jews. The best example there is Alan Dershowitz. He's every bit as rabid about social causes but he got the Islam message loud and clear on 9/11.
Non-Jewish converts to the real message of Islam are what I call the Cartoon Liberals. After the worldwide psychosis over the Danish cartoons, many Liberal happyheads, particularly in my circle, were truly appalled. Funny how the world turns on such small things, but then again, it is often said that the Devil is in the details. Two of my Hillary-worshipping friends are now very uncomfortable around any "appeasement of the Muslims" talk. Basically, they are now afraid. Good. They should be. Everybody should be afraid of the Muslims. First fear then anger then resolve. That's the way back onto the right road in this War on Terror.
49 posted on 06/28/2006 8:17:25 AM PDT by ishabibble
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To: Sabramerican

Read your own post again, and note the discrepancies. You are wrong in several respects: A Catholic, who decides to become an atheist, is no longer a Catholic, because Catholics are not an ethnic grouping. Jews who become agnostic or atheists, however, are still Jews because that is their ethnicity! And they don't have to believe in any religion to become Israeli citizens.


50 posted on 06/28/2006 8:19:37 AM PDT by Tangaray
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