Skip to comments.Defense Dept. Imposes Loyalty Test on American Jews
Posted on 06/28/2006 6:45:43 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel. Government sources and attorneys said the Pentagon has sought and succeeded in removing security clearance from dozens of Americans, mostly Jews, who either lived, worked or have relatives in Israel. Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.
[Note - this is all that is available to non-subscribers to Insight.]
Also, is the US planning to attack Israel - or is this merely a means of questioning the loyalty of Jews in the armed forces, and Jews in general? Did we ask Eisenhower if he would fight against the Germans? Do we ask people of English extraction if they'd join in an invasion of England? Do we ask Arabs or Moslems if they'll join in an invasion of their former homeland?
This seems rather peculiar but there are people in the Pentagon that clearly need retiring.
I'd imagine this is SOP when evaluating anyone with ties to a foreign power and not just limited to Jews.
It's not Israel. Security clearances, especially high-security clearances are often not given when the subject has relatives living in countries outside of the US.
Similarly, a long period of living in another country can cause denial of a security clearance.
One of the problems is the risk of a foreign relative being held hostage as a means of accessing information. Also, during security clearance investigations, lots of people are interviewed. Tough to interview folks in another country.
It's not limited to Israel, quite frankly.
Unless we've discovered something that the public isn't aware of yet.
I'll wait and see what it's about instead of assuming it's a retarded baseless change.
I suspect this is more in relation to the passing of military secrets to Israel than it is about loyalty if the US attacked Israel which is beyond remote.
I thought this was an article from the 1940s or before. Are we demanding the same loyalty from the Mexicans crossing our border?
"Security clearances, especially high-security clearances are often not given when the subject has relatives living in countries outside of the US."
Where did you find this information?
For people lacking your intimate knowledge of governmental affairs, a more detailed explanation might be necessary. Insight is not your average Leftie rag, so I don't have an ingrained bias against its stories. I want the facts, then I'll make judgements.
This is a standard question asked of ex-nationals of a particular country when obtaining a TS security clearance. Insight may be guilty of a 'drive by shooting' here.
Let's hope that this is the case - that it is SOP and that Insight was guilty of not telling the whole truth.
I spent 20 years in the DOD, with high levels of security clearance almost the entire time. In all of my background checks, I was never asked about religion or relatives in other countries. (I have some) If in fact this is happening, it is a radical departure from past procedure.
"Where did you find this information?
Personal experience. I had a very high clearance at one time.
You have to list on your security clearance forms all relatives who not US citizens and all relatives by marriage who not US citizens. Also if you do business overseas or hold a foreign passport.
Once you obtain your clearance, you are now required to fill out a foreign contact report if have anything to do with a foreign national.
The real world tends to be a bit confusing to many.
This article is about the dreaded persecution of poor Jews. The next may be about the poor hypenated Americans.
The world is full of victims.
When I lived in DC, I filled out at least one foreign contact report a week from cabbies, waiters, etc.
I know someone whose father's security clearance got extra scrutiny because his last name was spelled the same as a leading figure in the American Communist Party...in effect, he had to prove that they were not related. (In fact, the names originated in different countries but just happened to be spelled alike.)
Interesting parallel. In good old Soviet Union, if you had relatives abroad, you were tainted and were barred from some occupations.
Dang! I always got the guys who looked like they shopped for clothes at Goodwill.
Did you say "I do"?
Again, I'm simply looking for facts. Others on this thread have, thankfully, provided some.
No expert here, but the concept of dual citizenship was my first thought as well.
On the contrary. Very very very few American Jews have dual citizenship.
When American Jews have dual citizenship it is mostly because, like me, they are immigrants. How many American Jews are Israeli immigrants?
If an American Jew emigrated to Israel he/she can attain Israeli citizenship. In the same way as an American Catholic who immigrated to Canada can seek Canadian citizenship. It may be easier and more automatic for the Jew in Israel, but the process is the same.
This one was a babe. Wearing tight clothes, open low cut blouse.
It is necessary to recognize that not only our "enemies" conduct intelligence activities inside the United States. Some of our friends, like Israel and France also have agents here. Much of their activities are what you might call corporate intelligence, trying to pick up information on new technologies in computers, aviation, etc. Research and development is expensive, so sometimes it's cheaper to steal secrets. These allies also want to have political and military intelligence as well. If they have dirt on which Congressmen or which Pentagon officials are having affairs, financial problems, etc., there's a potential to exploit them for information. They may not be our adversaries militarily, but they can use that info in negotiating import/export trade deals, treaties, getting favorable consideration when legislation comes to a vote, or getting a look at the strategies and intentions of our government.
Probably intentional to entrap you.
She was a real Mata Hari.
Dear Sabra, you'recomparing apples to oranges. You compared "Catholics" to "Jews". One is a religion, the other is an ethnic group, many members of which may not be religious at all. From what I read, a majority of Jews are agnostic now, partly due to the holocaust. But every Jew can move to Israel, and can claim citizenship and protection, even after committing crimes in their previous contry. What's it called? The law of return? Anyway, dual citizenship necessarily implies dual loyalty, and they should not be given high level security clearances.
It was a test. Did you pass?
Oh damn, there goes my dream of a brilliant career in the DOD.
"American Jews are NOT treated like Americans"
Incorrect. Scrutiny is properly applied to people with ties to countries that regularly spy on us. Even though we are allies, Israel is prolific, and generally successful in spying on us, so ties to Israel are scrutinized.
Ties to the UK, Canada, Australia, for example are generally no given as much scrutiny because those countries do not spy on us, rather, we have extensive intelligence sharing agreements
I think that most American Jews would agree that America is probably the best place in the world to be Jewish.
If you think otherwise, as you apparently do, you are just wrong.
Lapsed Catholics are Catholics and non practicing Jews are Jews in the exact same way.
It's not true that every Jew can claim Israeli citizenship if they moved to Israel. And that is the point anyway, isn't it?
They need to move to Israel. If they stay in the US they are not Israelis. If they are American Jews then they didn't move to Israel.
I dare you to name any prominent American Jew in any field that you care to mention who is a dual citizen and this not acquire the status in the same way I did by immigrating to the United States.
I agree. However, that is not what is at issue in the Insight article. The report addressed Americans who "lived, worked or have relatives" in Israel. I can certainly understand the issue of divided loyalty, but by your criteria it is likely that only a miniscule portion of the people involved would have been denied their clearances or had them pulled.
Anyone ever thought about doing that to muslims?
typo= who is a dual citizen and did not acquire the status
Tell that to Meyer Lansky. Also to the Jewish guy from the Baltimore area who committed a murder a few years ago and then ran to Israel. Both claimed citizenship in Israel and protection under the laws of Israel, pursuant to the Law of Return, and both were returned to the US to face justice - as they should have been.
You compared "Catholics" to "Jews". One is a religion, the other is an ethnic group, many members of which may not be religious at all.
So, in your view, Catholics have a religion (sounds good so far), but Jews do not? WTF??? Do me a favor, look out the window...I'd like to know what color the sky is on your planet.
Or Alouette's son.
As I mentioned earlier, if this is done to everyone, if an attempt is made to find any hint of divided loyalty in any person, then this is a good thing - at least if one is interested in the security of this country, as I am. OTOH, if only Jews are being questioned and targetted this way, then something stinks.
Which one of my sons? The one who served in the IDF? Or the one who lives in Russia? Or maybe the one in Canada?
Read your own post again, and note the discrepancies. You are wrong in several respects: A Catholic, who decides to become an atheist, is no longer a Catholic, because Catholics are not an ethnic grouping. Jews who become agnostic or atheists, however, are still Jews because that is their ethnicity! And they don't have to believe in any religion to become Israeli citizens.
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