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Let Freedom Ring,
Posted on 06/29/2006 10:22:18 AM PDT by Redcloak
Supreme Court Says Muzzleloaders are Legally Firearms
Cheyenne- Posted 6/28/06
Associated Press
The ruling comes in an appeal by a convicted felon who says he thought he was allowed to own a black powder rifle. Such rifles are excluded from the federal definition of firearms.
A spokesman for the Wyoming Game and Fish Department says the ruling will come as a blow to some Wyoming residents who have felony convictions in the past but who are now dedicated black powder hunters.
Governor Freudenthal says he would favor changing the state law to allow convicted felons to continue to hunt with black powder guns.
The court ruling released Wednesday upholds the conviction of Frank Alan Harris in a Casper court on a charge of being a felon in possession of a firearm.
According to the court ruling, Harris was previously convicted of aggravated robbery and robbery.
WYOMING Supreme Court, right? not SCOTUS?
This should be interesting.
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Let Freedom Ring,
+
Well, through out history there have been a lot of people shot with them.
Some quibble about legal definition? Seems like if it is a weapon and works by fire it is a firearm.
This opens the door for background checks to purchase muzzleloaders.
Smokeless powder is a passing fad.
Y'know, I'm just as Pro 2A as anyone, but I've always wondered about this.
Darn right it does!
I'd say yes, generally, except that apparently the state has a law defining them and specifically excludes black powder muzzle loaders. If that is so, this ruling sounds like capriciousness.
It would avoid a lot of hassle if they'd simply amend the law concerning felons and not the laws about firearms. I think many states simply prohibit felons from possessing deadly weapons. Period. That would do it. Next case.
It would also avoid a lot of hassle if jaywalking wasn't a felony.
Of course, not to recognize it as a firearm, opens the door to banning them altogether.
Probably. Somewhere there is a definition of water as a 'mineral.' It seems a stretch, but it amounts to having to get a permit from some gov't agency to put in a water well on your own property if you don't outright own subsurface rights. Well, if the law as it stands doesn't stand community standards or common sense it won't last.
This weapon has killed more people in the United States than any other single weapon:
This weapon has killed more people in the United States than any other single weapon:
And according to federal law, that's not a firearm.
Back then, all rifles were 'assault rifles'.
Well, sure, but black powder weapons do not lend themselves to criminal activity.
A claw hammer would probably be a more effective weapon if you were looking to take up a life of mayhem.
If you were looking to 'disarm" criminals, you would have to prohibit kitchen knives, many tools, household chemicals and even automobiles.
Black powder should be exempt because you have to draw the line somewhere.
Anyway, a criminal act should be a crime because it is a criminal act. Robbery, rape, assault and murder are the crimes, whether they are committed with a weapon, brute force or whatever. Making mere possession of firearms illegal just creates new crime and makes new criminals.
Well, sure, but black powder weapons do not lend themselves to criminal activity.
A claw hammer would probably be a more effective weapon if you were looking to take up a life of mayhem.
If you were looking to 'disarm" criminals, you would have to prohibit kitchen knives, many tools, household chemicals and even automobiles.
Black powder should be exempt because you have to draw the line somewhere.
Anyway, a criminal act should be a crime because it is a criminal act. Robbery, rape, assault and murder are the crimes, whether they are committed with a weapon, brute force or whatever. Making mere possession of firearms illegal just creates new crime and makes new criminals.
Remember Frank and Jessie James?
You hit the nail on the head.
Oh... never mind. Suffice it to say that the GCA of '68 and a lot of other unConstitutional legislation leaves open "legal" doors that should never have been unlocked.
If someone is that dang dangerous to "society", then just friggin' keep 'em locked up or EXECUTE them. Once the debt is paid, let 'em get on with life.
Just think, the 1911 .45ACP is 95 years old, and counting...
They're doing that as hard and fast as they can.
Pretty soon, we'll all be criminals.
Then, nobody will pass the background check and "Voila!" mission accomplished.
Not true or else a lot of single action pistols and some revolvers would be unregulated by now.
is there a distinction between muzzle and breech loading black powder rifles? for example, the 45-70 gets best performance from black powder.
The BATFE decided that "Certian" cartridge weapons will be regulated. They keep a list on their website, but don't always maintain it, and don't post changes.
Hence, you can buy almost any 100 year old .22 (for example) or shotgun without any paperwork, and ship it in the mail, but you are not going to get certian other listed weapons until the BATFE gets around to upgrading the C&R and FFL lists.
If they have served thier time, these rights should be restored. If they haven't served thier time, why are they out?
Yes, I understand; it just seems like an odd place to draw the line. OTOH, I don't guess too many banks have been held up with cap-and-balls lately.
And of course laws and rulings like this just serve to magnify the point that the law is powerless to affect the behavior of lawbreakers (who aren't already locked up). If an ex-con is going to hold up a 7-11 or off his ex, he's not going to be thinking, I'll get in less trouble if I use my flintlock!
It would avoid a lot of hassle if they'd simply amend the law concerning felons and not the laws about firearms. I think many states simply prohibit felons from possessing deadly weapons. Period. That would do it. Next case.
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Simple solutions are easy for those who fail to think! You have just advocated banning dang near everything! Do you have any idea how deadly a simple claw hammer is in the hands of an experienced carpenter? Let's not even talk about chainsaws!
How many gang-bangers are packing Springfield muskets?
Pretty soon, we'll all be criminals.
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"Pretty soon" passed us by a generation or two back, it ain't so pretty anymore.
Felons lose some of their civil rights even after serving their prison sentence. They cannot vote either.
It doesn't work that way. Guns manufactured before 1898 are considered antiques. There's also a classification called "Curios & Relics", but they're still considered firearms. In fact, most machine guns made before 1945 have C&R status, but the laws still apply to them.
According to NY law, neither are rifles or shotguns.
In law, definitions are verrrry important - and often NOT what is meant in common venacular.
The trick will be FINDING a 1911 over 100 years old, functional, and not being so valuable as to preclude reasonable use.
Name another right they lose.
Name another Bill Of Rights right they lose.
civil rights are not Constitutionally protected.
The felonious act is a serious breach of the individual's relationship to the rest of society. Spending a little time getting his three hots and a cot doesn't repair that breach.
I'm sure the British Regulars considered the Massachussets Militia to be not much more than "Gang-bangers". ;)
I know. I don't think the practice is just.
Until 1968 you could order any shotgun, rifle or pistol through the mail...
That and needing to purchase from an FFL or go through one if you buy one on the internet.
No free man shall be debarred the use of arms.
A feel-good and immoral law.
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