Don't Misread the Polls: Americans Want a Wall (Dick Morris spanked over immigration)

New York Post Letters to the Editor Page ^ | June 30, 2006

[Jameison]

June 30, 2006 -- THE ISSUE: A comprehensive immigration plan that includes a guest-worker program.

No one with any common sense believes the Senate immigration bill would really be enforced ("Base Desires," Dick Morris, PostOpinion, June 26).
Rather, it would only begin another round of illegal entries into the country.

The government has to show us that the borders are really being secured first.


Peter Trotter
Bloomfield, Conn.


****
Morris' commentary would lead one to believe that the Republican base is all for amnesty.

That is not the case.

Grass-roots conservatives, who worked hard to get President Bush re-elected, support the House version of the immigration bill.

You can sit in New York or Washington and analyze all the surveys you want, but the real base will not support a plan that includes amnesty.

Bill Dockery
Lyles, Tenn.


****
Morris has taken one small survey and used its results to declare Bush inspired on the issue of immigration reform.

I would love to believe that mainstream Republicans are willing to accept 12 million Mexicans as new U.S. citizens, but I just can't see it happening.

Inspired or not, Bush needs to come up with something better.

Maria Guerra
Denver, Colo.

****
What planet is Morris and the administrator of this poll living on?

American citizens want secure borders to stop illegal immigration. They don't want a guest-worker program of any kind.

Only the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S. employers who hire illegals want what Morris proposes.

Morris should get out of New York and visit the rest of the country to find out what is really going on.

Robert Riley
Lawton, Okla.

[Jameison]

Yet another agenda driven Dick Morris "analysis" that is out of touch with reality, gets called out.

[mhx]

I don't "want" a wall.

[Gunslingr3]

Only the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S. employers who hire illegals want what Morris proposes.

Why leave out the Americans who want their roof fixed without having to get a second mortgage. They want more workers in the U.S. too...

[Enterprise]

If Dick Morris was spanked I'll bet he liked it.

[Texasforever]

Ummm. Letters to the editor? Are you that desperate?

[Jameison]

"I don't "want" a wall."

I do.
And so do most Americans.
Coast to coast wall.

[Jameison]

"If Dick Morris was spanked I'll bet he liked it."

You may have a point there.
Old Dick has exhibited a certain proclivity for the umm.."unusual" forms of "entertainment".

[Jameison]

"Ummm. Letters to the editor? Are you that desperate?"

Nope.
Are you?

[batter]

The folks who worked on my roof (as well as my folks and grandmother) were US workers. They did a good job, too. The price was only slightly higher than the more dubious contractors (about $100 was all).

While working for a campaign, a contractor noted how furious he was about illegal immigration. During the 'amnesty marches' his drywall subcontractor called and said his staff was off. He (the contractor) told the drywaller that his staff was made up of illegals and fired him. The drywaller responded that 'everyone else is hiring them'. The contractor said 'you have to start somewhere' and hung up.

I took the contractor's name etc. Guess who will get my business now...

[eeman]

On the Wall Street Journal editorial page today, there was an editorial about the primary results in Utah. The editorial touted the fact that Cannon (the open borders cheerleader) beat his his opponent by 56-44 percent. They contrasted this to Bilbray's win in San Diego as he only got 49.5% of the vote after running on an anti-illegal immigration platform. Of course, editorial failed to mention there was a "minute man" candidate who also drew about 6-7% of the anti-illegal immigration vote.

Everyone on this forum complains about the agenda driven reporting by AP, reuters and other RAT publications. However, the Journal demontrated that they can be just as blatant in pushing thier own agenda--just like Morris, and the rest of the open-border contingent of the GOP

[Texasforever]

Look I like a good spanking of the toe sucker as much as anyone but this is just well.....pathetic.

[batter]

Note: I was the one helping with the campaign, not the contractor - back to English composition class for me!

[Jameison]

"On the Wall Street Journal editorial page today, there was an editorial about the primary results in Utah. The editorial touted the fact that Cannon (the open borders cheerleader) beat his his opponent by 56-44 percent. They contrasted this to Bilbray's win in San Diego as he only got 49.5% of the vote after running on an anti-illegal immigration platform. Of course, editorial failed to mention there was a "minute man" candidate who also drew about 6-7% of the anti-illegal immigration vote."

Apples to bananas.
Utah was a Republican primary.
Cali 50th District was between the Republican and RATS candidates, and the previous Republican candidate had not only been convicted of corruption, he was in jail for corruption.
Add in the fact that even President Bush got approximately the same % of the votes in the Cali th District as Bilbray did, and the Opinion Journal doesn't have a point.

[Herakles]

I want a wall, barbed wire, mine fields, mortars, Humvees, tanks and a few nukes to show we really mean business.

Th Republicans can pretend to stop illegal immigration and ignore people like me, and I can pretend to vote for them the day they really need my help.

[Jameison]

Funny thing is, the same liberals who are advocating open borders for cheap labor, are the same people who scream murder when firms like Nike chose to manufacture products in poor third world countries because of cheap labor, and the same people that keep attacking Wal Mart all the time for making stuff cheaply in China.

If we continue to go the open borders/cheap labor route in this country, its only going to keep driving down incomes for our own less educated/skilled people.
No country on the planet works so hard at screwing its own citizens in that manner.
Mexico uses every nasty tactic it can, to keep Guatemalans out of their country.

[staytrue]

you missed the quote marks around "want"

NO ONE WANTS A WALL. they WILL "want" a wall as a last resort to a problem.

Fact is around the globe, there are almost zero border walls.

[ducks1944]

1. BUILD THE WALL NOW
2. Hold employers accountable by stiff fine and jail
3. And those who rent to them and most will go home, send rest of them to Mr. Joe
4. NO AMNESTY
If wall is not built they will go back to same old way old of doing things and more will come.

[staytrue]

However, the Journal demontrated that they can be just as blatant in pushing thier own agenda

My suspicion is the Journal is a left wing rag when they disagree with your opinions and a beacon of truth, virtue and the American way when they agree with your opinions.

[Jameison]

"NO ONE WANTS A WALL.they WILL "want" a wall as a last resort to a problem."

That will come as a surprise to the tens of millions living in gated communities, or have strong walls around their homes in America and all over the world.


"Fact is around the globe, there are almost zero border walls."

Mankind has had border walls for centuries, in every kind of culture, all over the world, to keep out foreign invaders of all sorts.
And its not just limited to the Great Wall of China either.

[Jameison]

"My suspicion is the Journal is a left wing rag when they disagree with your opinions and a beacon of truth, virtue and the American way when they agree with your opinions."


In general, the copy writers of The Journal are liberals, while the Editorial board tends to be conservative.
It's been that way for decades.
At the same time, even the editorial board will tend to sway in the direction of Big Business in any debate over the interests of American workers versus Big Business interests.
After all, The Journal IS a business publication.

[Jameison]

Agree with all that.

[staytrue]

its not just limited to the Great Wall of China either.

Name a country besides Israel and the US that has a border wall of over 300 miles.

[Jameison]

"Name a country besides Israel and the US that has a border wall of over 300 miles."

# 1, Why 300 miles?
# 2. When did they take down the Great Wall of China?

[taxesareforever]

Morris spent too much time next to Bill Clinton. So much rubbed off on him. He claims that Bill lived by the polls. Well so does Morris. What does that tell a person?

[Jameison]

"He claims that Bill lived by the polls. Well so does Morris. What does that tell a person?"

Exactly.
That's just the trouble with Dick Morris.
All those years he spent with the sleaziest president in American history, BJ Klinton.
Morris writes this column in my local paper, the New York Post, and it's almost always about President Bush's "bad poll numbers".
One can't effectively govern a country, especially in times of war, just based on fickle public opinion polls from a biased media.
Might explain why Morris has been wrong on most of the stuff he has "analyzed" and has one of the worst records at predicting anything.

[staytrue]

the great wall no longer functions as a border wall and is mostly a tourist attraction. It is not even on a border anymore.

300 miles is what the current US wall is with Mexico.

you want to extend it to 1500 miles.

I SAY AGAIN, EXCEPT FOR ISRAEL AND THE US, NAME A COUNTRY WITH A BORDER WALL OF OVER 300 MILES.

[Jameison]

"the great wall no longer functions as a border wall and is mostly a tourist attraction"

Great Wall was built to keep out foregin invaders.
It remains in place as at today.
That in itself automatically invalidates you post # 8 in which you claim:
"NO ONE WANTS A WALL"


"300 miles is what the current US wall is with Mexico.
you want to extend it to 1500 miles. "

Nope.
I want a wall to cover ALL 2000 MILES of our border with Mexico, TO KEEP YOUR RABID MEXICAN PALS OUT!
How about that?

[staytrue]

Can't name a country can you.

The great wall was once a border wall to keep people out, but that is no longer true.

I SAY AGAIN, EXCEPT FOR ISRAEL AND THE US, NAME A COUNTRY WITH A BORDER WALL OF OVER 300 MILES.

[Jameison]

"Can't name a country can you."

I don't have to name another country.
I already proved that your post # 8 is rubbish.
We are going to build this wall, man it with all the border guards we need, plus hold employers accountable by stiff fines and jail sentences.
Your illegal alien Mexican pals are going to have to find another country to invade.

[staytrue]

you said "And its not just limited to the Great Wall of China either."

and I did not post #8.

[Jameison]

"I SAY AGAIN, EXCEPT FOR ISRAEL AND THE US, NAME A COUNTRY WITH A BORDER WALL OF OVER 300 MILES."

Why don't you name me one country that has 4 illegal million invaders streaming into their country every single year, that then turn round and organize strikes with International ANSWR on the communist May Day, while waving flags of the country they are invading upside down?

Again, I'll just cut and paste my reply to you in my post # 27:

"I want a wall to cover ALL 2000 MILES of our border with Mexico, TO KEEP YOUR RABID MEXICAN PALS OUT!
How about that?"

[staytrue]

Why don't you name me one country that has 4 illegal million invaders streaming into their country every single year

This number is a distortion at best. Net inflows (inflows minus outflows) is less than that. Or if true we can wait 25 years and they will all be here. Problem solved. And there will be tons of cheap land in the unpopulated country of mexico for the gringos to go and make a new country

But we do have a problem whatever the numbers. A wall is probably a necessary evil. My original point was no one wants a wall. It is stupid to want a wall for the sake of a wall. People want something stopped and build a wall as a solution.

I do see another problem and that is your attitude.

[Jameison]

"and I did not post #8."

Post # 16.

"you said "And its not just limited to the Great Wall of China either." "

This is what I said:

"Mankind has had border walls for centuries, in every kind of culture, all over the world, to keep out foreign invaders of all sorts.
And its not just limited to the Great Wall of China either"


I will just use the Mid-East as an example of that, since you keep harping on about Israel's walls:

The history of walls has proven that they are a permanent and effective deterrent. Look at the great civilizations of the Middle East that invented walled fortifications, the former Babylonian Empire of Sargon I, The Former Assyrian Empire, The Hittites, Jericho the list goes on and on. Obviously these ancient former empires of the Middle East understood the value of walls.

I would suggest you have another look at Middle East history, or read your Bible.
Everyone remembers the Walls of Jericho,
After all, its been used in plenty of songs.
But more than all that, America is the only advanced first world country, that shares borsdrs with a third world country which keeps sending in over 4 million invaders every single year. We don't need someone to build a will before we build one too.
But they have, and we can learn from other walls that have been built in history, even the Israeli wall that bothers you so much.

[OBXWanderer]

Th Republicans can pretend to stop illegal immigration and ignore people like me, and I can pretend to vote for them the day they really need my help.

And I will pretend to send money to the RNC in these darned envelopes they keep sending.

[AngelesCrestHighway]

You bet!...I want a wall!....ten feet high, two feet thick, fifty feet below ground and razor wire on top...Happy New Year Mexico!... and kiss my ass!

[Gunslingr3]

The folks who worked on my roof (as well as my folks and grandmother) were US workers. They did a good job, too. The price was only slightly higher than the more dubious contractors (about $100 was all).

I'm guessing where you live the unemployment rate isn't hovering at 2%, with tomorrow's temp at 97 degrees and blue tarps still covering roofs from the storms of the last two years...

[burroak]

AND I SAY, WHO CARES?

If you need a wall, you need a wall.

[texastoo]

"Name a country besides Israel and the US that has a border wall of over 300 miles."

India. They have already built a 1,300 mile barrier. They will build 2,500 miles. Guess what, it works to keep illegals out.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25689-1961065,00.html

[thoughtomator]

Spain and India come immediately to mind, and I'm sure there are others.

[MNJohnnie]

Apples to bananas. Utah was a Republican primary. Cali 50th District was between the Republican and RATS candidates, and the previous Republican candidate had not only been convicted of corruption, he was in jail for corruption. Add in the fact that even President Bush got approximately the same % of the votes in the Cali th District as Bilbray did, and the Opinion Journal doesn't have a point.

That absurd analysis. A Republican primary, if the "Republican Base" is all fired up over Immigration, should of been a sweeping win for the Anti Illegals. It was not. That suggests the Anti Illegals, while extremely vocal, are not nearly the political powerhouses they claim themselves to be.

Simply ignoring the facts to validate your own emotional political feelings is intellectually indefensible. It is what the Democrat do all the time. That why they keep getting their heads beat in when they run up against the reality of the voting booth.

The fact of the matter is the average American is a lot more conservative then either side of the Immigration fight realize. They want NO part of "comprehensive" reform neither are they all gung ho for a "Deport everyone, right now" police state the Antis fantasies about.

Thankfully it looks like Congress finally wised up. Do some of the enforcements things, seen how that works, worry about the rest of it in the next Congress. This "My way or the Highway" will get both sides NOTHING. If that happens, the Illegals win and we will be right back here in 2 to 3 years ranting and raving about 30 or 40 million illegals with all those 1986 Amnesty anchor babies starting to reach voting age.

[justiceseeker93]

FYI, I recently received a fundraising solicitation letter from a 527 group called "The Presidential Coalition." Their web site is www.goppresident.org, so one would presume that they are truly a Republican organization looking to help out the GOP '08 presidential candidate.

The only thing strange about it is the irony that the letter is written and signed by "Dick Morris, Former Clinton Advisor." Morris says that his role in this GOP fundraising effort (fittingly, accompanied by a poll which the letter recipient is urged to answer and return with his/her contribution) is analagous to the Swiftboat veterans in the '04 campaign: having known the Democrat(s) from their inside circle in the past, he can tell you all about the disaster they would cause if they were to win back the White House.

Although I agree with Morris' general conclusion there, I'd put more trust in his sincerity if he would come out state unequivocally that he is a Republican. But until that happens, Morris must regarded as a slick operative who no qualms about selling his services to folks on either side of the political divide. So regardless of what he has to say on any issue, take him for what he is.

[staytrue]

Next month India plans to fence off this area of West Bengal as part of a little-known £600 million project to erect a steel barrier right along its 2,500-mile border with its much smaller Muslim neighbour.

I don't know where you get your 1300 mile quote, but it looks like they started in Feb. 2006.

In any event, good find.

Nevertheless, walls between countries are very rare today. And in Israel, and India's case, one motivation is to fence off the muslim nutcases.

Our immigration from the south is out of control and a wall, while not wanted, is a desperated measure at control and needs to be tried.

[Jameison]

"That absurd analysis." A Republican primary, if the "Republican Base" is all fired up over Immigration, should of been a sweeping win for the Anti Illegals."

Nonsense.
Utah and Cali 50th district are simply not the same.
One was a Republican primary, and the other was the election between the Republican candidate and the RATS candidate.
Plus of course Cali 50th district had the previous Republican congressmen convicted for corruption.
Everything in my analysis was exactly spot on.
You haven't challenged even one fact I put up.



"A Republican primary, if the "Republican Base" is all fired up over Immigration, should of been a sweeping win for the Anti Illegals. It was not"


That's like saying Arelene Specter winning the Republican primaries when he was up for re-eection, means that the Republican base support abortion.
We don't.

"That suggests the Anti Illegals, while extremely vocal, are not nearly the political powerhouses they claim themselves to be."

They are.
Their power was demonstrated when the anti-illegal immigrant candidate won in the Cali 50th District against the RATS candidate, despite the previous Republican candudate being jailed for sorruption


"Simply ignoring the facts to validate your own emotional political feelings is intellectually indefensible"


Look who's talking.



"They want NO part of "comprehensive" reform"


About the only poit you are correct on.

"neither are they all gung ho for a "Deport everyone, right now" police state the Antis fantasies about"

No one said anything about deporting anyone "right now".
Just start deporting, and keep right on deporting as fast as we can, while securing the southern borders and getting very rabid with anyone who is foolish enough to emply any illegals, inlclubding jail terms.
It's not a "deport all, or nothing" opition.

"Thankfully it looks like Congress finally wised up"

Republican majority in congress wised up from the get go, when Republicans in ethe House voted for engforecemnt only bill, and Republicans in The Senate voted AGINST the McCain/Kennedt Amnestil Bill by 32-23.
That's why this amnesty Bill is a RATS bill, since two thirds of the votes for it came from the RATS.

"This "My way or the Highway" will get both sides NOTHING"

No new bill is far, far better than the evil Senate amnesty bill. We don't need any new bill to deport illegal aliens, or deal with those who emply them
There are laws on the books for that already. Let the Bush adminstration carry out the bills that are already in effect.


"If that happens, the Illegals win and we will be right back here in 2 to 3 years ranting and raving about 30 or 40 million illegals with all those 1986 Amnesty anchor babies starting to reach voting age."

If the Senate amnesty bill becomes law, American is seriously screwed.
Let the federa; governmemt vigorously effect the lasw that are ALREADY on the books, and start deporting.

[Jameison]

"But until that happens, Morris must regarded as a slick operative who no qualms about selling his services to folks on either side of the political divide"

Morris has always been that.
He's never had any qualms that I know of (how else could he work so intimately for Herr Schlick himself?).
His loyalty is for sale to the highest bidder.
You can't trust people like that, when it comes to politiics and policy.

[MNJohnnie]

Your screaming louder does not change nonsense to fact. IF the Antis were this overwhelming political powerhouse as they continually claim, they would of won in Utah. That they have not managed to win one of their targeted races indicates clearly to anyone who thinks about the facts instead of merely having inflamed feeling about the matter, that the Antis are NOT the all powerful, all knowing political dynamos they claim to be.

[texastoo]

I don't know where you get your 1300 mile quote, but it looks like they started in Feb. 2006.

The quote of 1,300 miles is down in the article.

More than 1,300 miles of the barrier has been erected in the six years since building began.

[Jameison]

"Your screaming louder "

You are doing all the screaming.
You could take your own advise.

"does not change nonsense to fact"

Facts are on my side. My last post is chock full of facts.
You have the monopoly on spewing out nonsense.


"IF the Antis were this overwhelming political powerhouse as they continually claim, they would of won in Utah. "

They won in Cali 50th, against all odds, including a corrupt, convicted Republican incumbent.
That's what counts.


"That they have not managed to win one of their targeted races indicates clearly to anyone who thinks about the facts "

Targeted by who?
The Republican Party backed the incumbent with far more resources than Tom Tancredo could summon.
Same as the Republican Party backed a liberal Aerlene Sphincter against a conservative candidate, and Sphincter won.

"that the Antis are NOT the all powerful, all knowing political dynamos they claim to be."

Strong borders and no amnesty managed to win in the US House of Reps, get the majority of Republican senators to vote against amnesty, and stop the Senate Amnesty Bill cold in it's tracks.
That looks like plenty of political power to me.

[dalereed]

"NAME A COUNTRY WITH A BORDER WALL OF OVER 300 MILES"

India!

[justiceseeker93]

Agree that Morris is capable of playing both sides of the street or anywhere in the middle.

But I'm somewhat convinced that he has a legit personal distaste for the Clintons, justifiably so in view of their past history. The thirst for personal revenge against them, rather than ideology, may be steering Morris toward the GOP for 2008 only.

[Jameison]

"But I'm somewhat convinced that he has a legit personal distaste for the Clintons, "

Oh he hates the Klintons alright.
No question about that.
And he is obsessed with them too.
And you are right, it comes from their past history together.