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Teen sues district after "Ave Maria" silenced
Seattle Times ^ | Saturday, July 1, 2006 | David Bowermaster

Posted on 07/01/2006 5:27:12 AM PDT by DogBarkTree

For years, seniors in the wind ensemble at Henry M. Jackson High School have selected a favorite piece of music to play during commencement.

For last month's ceremonies, the 17 students chose an instrumental version of "Ave Maria," which they had performed at a school concert in December 2004.

But their choice was vetoed by Dr. Carol Whitehead, superintendent of the Everett School District. Instead, the ensemble played a selection by British composer Gustav Holst.

Now Kathryn Nurre, an 18-year-old who played alto saxophone in the ensemble before graduating, is suing Whitehead, claiming the decision violated her First Amendment right to freedom of speech. She believes "Ave Maria" was nixed by Whitehead because she felt the song was too religious for a school-sanctioned event.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Washington; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aclu; antichrist; antichristian; antitheist; avemaria; bigotry; christianmusic; churchandstate; jesus; lawsuit; maria; mary; publicschools; publikskoolz; purge; religion; schools
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I will admit that Im not exactly what one would call a church person but at some point this BS has to stop.>

[Kathryn Nurre, with parents Patrick and Vicki Nurre, was told the wind ensemble couldn't play "Ave Maria" at graduation. Kathryn Nurre is suing the Everett School District as well as Superintendent Carol Whitehead for banning "Ave Maria" from the students' commencement.]

1 posted on 07/01/2006 5:27:15 AM PDT by DogBarkTree
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To: DogBarkTree
Socialism is just grand.

And the reason liberals are so upset about religion is that the only god they worship is the god of the state. They hate competition.

2 posted on 07/01/2006 5:31:44 AM PDT by Reactionary (The Barking of the Native Moonbat is the Sound of Moral Nitwittery)
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To: DogBarkTree
It seems to me that because Kathryn Nurre is a Child of God, she shouldn't be allowed to attend school at all.   /sarc

Bless you, Kathryn, for your courage!

3 posted on 07/01/2006 5:32:38 AM PDT by jigsaw (God Bless Our Wonderful Troops.)
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To: DogBarkTree

Atheism is a hard core religion. And it's believers are just as bad as those of Islam in trying to impose it on everyone.


4 posted on 07/01/2006 5:36:07 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: jigsaw
It seems to me that because Kathryn Nurre is a Child of God, she shouldn't be allowed to attend school at all. Ê /sarc

You know the "tolerant" leftists are busy working on the concept of re-education camps.

5 posted on 07/01/2006 5:37:13 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: jigsaw

Several instrumental versions of Ave Maria exist, which are all considered as "classical music", by classical composers.

There are also several complete masses composed by classical composers.

Normally these are treated as classical music, composed around a theme, and enjoyed because they show either the ability of the composer or the dexterity of the musician. Listening to them is not considered a "religious service" nor is the concert hall
considered to be a church. (When Leonard Bernstein conducted the NY symphony playing one of these masses, he was not presiding at a religious service.)

But if you are to ban all music which has been composed around any religious theme, then you are going to have to ban at least half of the classical body of music, and much that is more modern.

Are we only going to be allowed to have music about the planets?


6 posted on 07/01/2006 5:40:37 AM PDT by CondorFlight
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To: DogBarkTree

That is flipping ridiculous. My daughter is in the orchestra at the local public high school. During the spring concert the orchestra organized themselves into quartets and duets and chose a piece of music to play. Two girls, one a harpist and one a flute player, did Schubert's "Ave Maria", and did it beautifully. It had a special impact on me because that piece had been my mother's favorite and I hadn't listened to it since her funeral 12 year ago. To think that such a magnificent piece would be banned because of some religious connection is absolutely obscene.


7 posted on 07/01/2006 5:40:54 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: DogBarkTree
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Everyone knows that high school students playing the instrumental version of Ave Maria is no different than Congress establishing a religion.

The first amendment guarantees us freedom from religion, dammit! Yes, I know the first amendment says that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise (of religion) thereof -- but hey, free exercise is actually .... establishing a religion! Can't have that.

8 posted on 07/01/2006 5:45:04 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: DogBarkTree

Wow. How insane. Ave Maria is a beautiful work. If it's being done instrumentally what's the beef? And if it's being sung it's in Latin fer heaven's sake!

This wacko educrat is the same sort of idiot who thinks that letting little boys play "cowboys and indians" will turn them into murdering racists as adults. A complete fool and unfit to teach or administrate a school.


9 posted on 07/01/2006 5:46:35 AM PDT by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: CondorFlight
But if you are to ban all music which has been composed around any religious theme, then you are going to have to ban at least half of the classical body of music, and much that is more modern.

Sort of a State Approved Music List. The Authorities can dig up one of the old lists from the USSR and save the effort of having to make a new one.

And what about the art department and all those pix of church commissioned artwork done by da Vinci, et al?

/s

10 posted on 07/01/2006 5:50:53 AM PDT by elli1
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To: Reactionary

And the reason liberals are so upset about religion is that the only god they worship is the god of the state. They hate competition.

@@@@@

This is the point that we need to use to counteract the "separation" folks. They are actively supporting their religion, when they permit "no other Gods" before them. The first amendment specifically disallows this.


11 posted on 07/01/2006 5:50:57 AM PDT by maica (Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle --Abraham Lincoln)
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To: DogBarkTree

The kid should have claimed that it was from "wiccan" ceremonies.Then she would have been applauded.


12 posted on 07/01/2006 5:57:28 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Seruzawa

Anyone that bans music written by Franz Schubert is either a dodo head or a nitwit. Take your pick.


13 posted on 07/01/2006 6:00:24 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: DogBarkTree

"Kathryn Nurre, with parents Patrick and Vicki Nurre,..."



Well, there's the other big problem. Her parents are married, there is no hyphen in the mother's name, which gives a sense of strong family unity. Another thing libs can't tolerate. All this on top of a the daughter being a talented musician instead of a dope smoking, hell raising, knuckle dragging little communist as the school taught her to be.


"I will admit that Im not exactly what one would call a church person but at some point this BS has to stop."

What a great line.


14 posted on 07/01/2006 6:00:50 AM PDT by HighWheeler (Look at and listen to liberal women - it's no wonder so many liberal men choose to be gay.)
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To: CondorFlight

Bump


15 posted on 07/01/2006 6:01:15 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: sitetest

pong


16 posted on 07/01/2006 6:01:52 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: Rock N Jones

Superintendent Dodo Head is my pick.


17 posted on 07/01/2006 6:06:13 AM PDT by pepperdog
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To: DogBarkTree
Pie Jesu!
18 posted on 07/01/2006 6:08:19 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: DogBarkTree

Ave Maria ~ what a gorgeous, dignified background for a commencement.

Lofty, inspiring, achingly beautiful ~ Soulful, selfless and sweet.

If "commencement" implies a new beginning, this song is such a promise.


19 posted on 07/01/2006 6:10:24 AM PDT by b9 ("the [evil Marxist liberal socialist Democrat Party] alternative is unthinkable" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: DogBarkTree
Now you can't even have an instrumental version of a song that once related to God? Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
20 posted on 07/01/2006 6:12:52 AM PDT by Sender ("Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-b*tches we're going up against. By God, I do".)
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To: AmericaUnited
Atheism is a hard core religion. And it's believers are just as bad as those of Islam in trying to impose it on everyone.

Careful... they are going to be here soon asking such stupid questions as "What if she wanted to play a Muslim prayer chant? HUH? HUH?"

21 posted on 07/01/2006 6:16:57 AM PDT by Hacksaw (Deport illegals the same way they came here - one at a time.)
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To: Sender

NOnonono. Eastasia has always been at war with Oceana. Don't you watch the newsreels?


22 posted on 07/01/2006 6:18:35 AM PDT by widowithfoursons
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To: DogBarkTree
The school is being sued for not allowing the religious melody to be played.

The school would be sued if they allowed the religious melody to be played.

The lawyers have all bases covered, haven't they!

I'm raising my dog to be a lawyer to guarantee the pooch a well-paying, secure career.

Leni

23 posted on 07/01/2006 6:24:53 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: doodlelady

Now we need to label classical music so the title doesn't offend the atheists; like Nave Maria or something like that


24 posted on 07/01/2006 6:27:40 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: MinuteGal

I don't think there is such a thing as a 'religious melody'; it's just a melody. The bigots didn't like the title


25 posted on 07/01/2006 6:28:31 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: DogBarkTree
Freaking brainwashed Jesus freaks are everywhere!
Don't these mind numbed cultists understand that only the Internationale (midi) shall be played at school State events!
Arise ye starvelings [or workers] from your slumbers
Arise ye criminals of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
and at last ends the age of cant.
Now away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise!
We'll change forthwith [or henceforth] the old conditions
And spurn the dust to win the prize.
CHORUS:
Then come comrades rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale
Unites the human race. (repeat).
We peasants, artisans and others,
Enrolled amongst the sons of toil
Let's ... etc, etc, etc...

And what's up with this "parent" stuff? And where's her two mommies or her lesbian girlfriend. And no mention of the State Social Worker? What the heck is going on here. She's sick.



/s

26 posted on 07/01/2006 6:30:07 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: sobieski

America is at war with atheism, islamofacsists are merely their footsoldiers


27 posted on 07/01/2006 6:32:02 AM PDT by daku ("Behold this creature that walks like a man. It wants ketchup on its hot dog.")
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To: DogBarkTree

What is really funny is that, as an instrumental, unless you were well versed in classical music, the non-religious would never have recognized the music.


28 posted on 07/01/2006 6:32:04 AM PDT by tiki
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To: nuconvert; 1rudeboy; 31R1O; afraidfortherepublic; Andyman; Argh; aristotleman; baa39; Bahbah; ...

Dear nuconvert,

Thanks for the ping (or the pong??)! ;-)

Classical Music Ping List ping!

If you want on or off this list, please let me know via FR e-mail.

Thanks!


sitetest


29 posted on 07/01/2006 6:37:23 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: DogBarkTree
The first documented version of the melody of "My Country 'Tis of Thee" ("America", "God Save the King/Queen", etal) dates from 1761 in the American colonies.

It was the melody for the Christian hymn known as "Whitefield's Tune". It was published in a collection of sacred songs and was printed by William Bradford.

I guess one of our loveliest patriotic songs can't be presented ever again at this school as the melody is historically connected in many ways with religion.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to un-believe.

Leni

30 posted on 07/01/2006 6:41:31 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: CondorFlight
There are also several complete masses composed by classical composers.

How about banning Handel's "Messiah"? Or how about those many (if not most) pieces by Bach that were dedicated to "Gotte"?

31 posted on 07/01/2006 6:44:07 AM PDT by PallMal
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To: PallMal

How about banning Handel's "Messiah"?

Don't forget to ban all pictures of paintings in the Sistine Chapel!


32 posted on 07/01/2006 6:59:00 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: DogBarkTree
They banned an instrumental version of the song?
33 posted on 07/01/2006 7:02:05 AM PDT by TommyDale (Stop the Nifongery!)
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To: Allan
Ping.

America.

34 posted on 07/01/2006 7:04:47 AM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: DogBarkTree

The school is imposing the secular humanist religion on the students.


35 posted on 07/01/2006 7:06:03 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (Stop the ACLU - Support the Public Expression of Religion Act 2005 - Call your congressmen.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
You know the "tolerant" leftists are busy working on the concept of re-education camps.

Currently referred to as "Sensitivity Training".

36 posted on 07/01/2006 7:06:28 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: DogBarkTree

Has the local Catholic bishop taken up this issue publicly? He should. So should other Christian leaders.


37 posted on 07/01/2006 7:11:24 AM PDT by vox_freedom (Fear no evils)
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To: PallMal

There are also several complete masses composed by classical composers.

How about banning Handel's "Messiah"? Or how about those many (if not most) pieces by Bach that were dedicated to "Gotte"?




Done. When was the last time you saw "Messiah" performed at one of our temples of the civic religion (a.k.a. public schools)?

One more reason to push the "separation between church and state" to its logical conclusion: "separation of state and school". http://www.sepschool.org/

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3172.html

And,in the meantime,
http://www.exodusmandate.com/
http://getthekidsout.org/blog/blog_a.php?p=64&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


38 posted on 07/01/2006 7:17:52 AM PDT by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: DogBarkTree

Well, now...that's just silly. I can see no possible reason to prohibit the band (I refuse to use the term "wind ensemble" for a high school band) from playing that piece.


39 posted on 07/01/2006 7:20:44 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: DogBarkTree

I am certainly not catholic, but loudly applaud this action. This stupidity has got to stop. Now.


40 posted on 07/01/2006 7:20:55 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: DogBarkTree

Ave Maria is a totally intolerant and judgemental piece of music. Such music has great possibility to offend others of different beliefs. Thank Goodness the schools stand to ensure TOLERANCE....

SARC!!!!


41 posted on 07/01/2006 7:21:00 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: DogBarkTree

I resigned from a large city choir because we were to sing "Ave Maria". Since idolatry is a sin, and praying to someone other than God through Jesus is blasphemy, I just couldn't do it. (Pretty music, though.)

Beat me up if you want to... but until I see a chapter and verse saying otherwise, Mary was an exceptionally good person, but not to be worshipped. There is no worshipping of Mary in the Bible. No rosary.


42 posted on 07/01/2006 7:37:44 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: Salvation; NYer
Ping.

File this article under, "sheesh."

5.56mm

43 posted on 07/01/2006 7:49:12 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Sender

[Now you can't even have an instrumental version of a song that once related to God? Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.]

LOL. Exactly. The school official is a complete idiot. If enough cases like this start to be filed, and eventually won, the left will begin to think twice about their absurd decisions.


44 posted on 07/01/2006 7:50:06 AM PDT by khnyny (Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.- Winston Churchill)
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To: MayflowerMadam

"I resigned from a large city choir because we were to sing "Ave Maria". Since idolatry is a sin, and praying to someone other than God through Jesus is blasphemy, I just couldn't do it. (Pretty music, though.)
"

Too bad. Do you know the words to "Ave Maria?" It has nothing to do with idolatry. You may not think that asking Mary to pray for you is a good idea, but it's not idolatry.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and and at the hour of our death.

A good portion of the words of this prayer come directly from the Bible itself.


45 posted on 07/01/2006 8:00:55 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: MayflowerMadam

Check this out:

LUKE 1
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: BLESSED ART THOU among women.
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, BLESSED ART THOU among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

So, you see, there is direct Biblical reference for the words of this prayer. Too bad you quit the choir over your misunderstanding.


46 posted on 07/01/2006 8:03:07 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: CondorFlight
It sounds to me like this superintendent would even attempt to halt the playing of Handel's Messiah.
47 posted on 07/01/2006 8:06:02 AM PDT by mware (Americans in armchairs doing the job of the media.)
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To: DogBarkTree
Did Dr. Whitehead, the Superintendent of schools out there, get her PhD in stupidity or is she a natural dumba$$? Folks like her need to be run out of town on a rail, preferably into a shark infested lagoon, never to be allowed human contact again. What a loon this wasted "educator" must be, and why do the folks there tolerate such crap from THEIR employee? The locals need to string this idiot out of their schools, and get a normal person in to replace this P.O.S. vermin of an educator.
48 posted on 07/01/2006 8:11:35 AM PDT by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: DogBarkTree

song was too religious for a school-sanctioned event.

I am not even religious but this is really outrageous.
This piece is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written. Religious inspired music are some of the greatest ever. An instrumental version to be considered too religious just blows my mind. Are these people who censor crazy? How can a tune without any words be too religious?


49 posted on 07/01/2006 8:13:32 AM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: MineralMan
Franz Schubert's "Ave Maria" is not a religious piece. The words come from Sir Walter Scott's "Lady of the Lake", and the piece is properly called "Ellen's Song #3".

When Schubert was complimented on the piety of this song, he laughed.

50 posted on 07/01/2006 8:16:59 AM PDT by Publius
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