Investigation Under Way in Iraqi Family's Deaths

American Forces Press Service ^

[SandRat]

WASHINGTON, June 30, 2006 – The Army's Criminal Investigation Command is looking into allegations that coalition soldiers killed an Iraqi family of four in their home near Mahmudiyah, Iraq, military officials here announced today. A written statement issued by Multinational Division Baghdad said U.S. Army Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, the division's commanding general, requested a criminal probe into the allegations after the division's own preliminary investigation found sufficient information existed to recommend a criminal investigation.

The incident that led to the allegations reportedly occurred in March, but the military's written statement did not provide a time frame. The statement said two soldiers on June 23 reported alleged coalition force involvement in the family's deaths. The criminal investigation began the next day, and is ongoing, officials said.

Officials did not provide the identity or nationality of the accused soldiers or those who came forward with the allegations. A command spokesman told American Forces Press Service he was not yet releasing any information beyond that contained in today's written statement.

(Based on a Multinational Division Baghdad news release.)

[SandRat]

Once more the sad saga begins of nedia conviction, investigation, media rage, Art. 32 proceedings, media leftist glee, Art. 32 recommendations of dismissal of all charges, media and lefist abject outrage.

[SE Mom]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1658866/posts

[DustyMoment]

My bet is that after the military sticks it's political finger into the air to see which way the wind is blowing, their investigation will determine that the Iraqis are dead and American troops drove through the town that day.

[GB]

I'll repeat what I said in another thread. This is a simple situation, it's not complicated, it's not nuclear science. IF these allegations and the exact set of circumstances around them are proven to be accurate in a military court of law, then these soldiers should have the full weight of military justice brought down on them, up to and including the death penalty IMHO. If they are proven to be not accurate, then these men should be sent back to do their jobs and we should hammer the people who tried to make a mountain out of a molehill as hard and as long as we can. Either way, WE CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MISSION IN IRAQ.

Sorry for shouting. :)

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

It is important to know exactly what the composition of this so-called "Multinational Division" is......the following (snipped) statement regarding composition is dated March 31, this year - the end of the month the article above claims this incident occurred.....my own opinion is that the press knows that American GI's are not the perpetrators, considering how little is being said about it....

" General: Baghdad Division Curbing Violence as Government Forms
By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service

In-Depth Coverage WASHINGTON, March 31, 2006 – The beefed-up force in and around Baghdad is helping curb violence and likely will stay at current levels as Iraq's new unity government forms, the force's commander told Pentagon reporters today.
Army Maj. Gen. James Thurman said Multinational Division Baghdad, with about 32,000 Iraqi security forces and just over 29,000 U.S., Georgian, Macedonian and Estonian troops, is likely to keep its current strength until the government becomes operational. "I see that as being a critical piece in getting the overall rule of law of law established in all of Iraq," and specifically, Baghdad, he told reporters in a video teleconference from Iraq" snip

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2006/03/iraq-060331-afps01.htm

[JennysCool]

After Haditha, terrorists and terrorist sympathizers know how to get the West all riled up -- report an alleged atrocity, get a "witness" to spin a tale, and the media will pick it up and run with it for you.

It's become a tactic, and I now look dubiously at all these stories.

[The Duke]

So we're not supposed to go to war until all our troops are free of sin?

Punish the wrongdoers and get on with it!

[GB]

Punish the wrongdoers and get on with it!

Amen!

[new yorker 77]

Sorry again to bring this up.

No repudiation of your thread.

This headline in various forms has been posted here at freerepublic way to many times.

The America hating left wants us to fixate on their fakery.

I chose to catalog this story along side their other fake news and fake polls.

[DJ Taylor]

"It's become a tactic, and I now look dubiously at all these stories."

This accusation is about as far fetched as a story can get. To believe this one, you would have to believe that five mad men just happened to be assigned to the same fire team, in the same squad, in the same platoon, in the same company, in the same battalion in the 502 Regiment. You would have to believe that they left their unit one night and went to Mahmudiyah, a town that is a hot bed of Sunni insurgents where Americans never travel in less than Company strength, committed an unbelievably horrendous crime and left without being taken under fire by the insurgents.

If you can believe that scenario, you gotta be a Democrat (the political party of the feeble minded).

[GB]

IMHO, it is just as inadvisable to say, at this point in time, that there is absolutely no possibility that these allegations as true as it is to say with metaphysical certitude that they are true and start coiling nooses. A very active investigation process appears to be under way. The truth will come out. Whatever that truth may be, The Duke had it right ... let's move forward from it and get on with the mission.

[new yorker 77]

Soldiers perform thousands of acts of kindness and heroism daily.

To make this 'accusation' a headline is a disgrace.

To acknowledge it would also require one to not only believe the congenital liars in the press but would also require one to have serve selective amnesia when it comes to stories like this.

The AP is not worthy of an "If this is true". They lie way too much.

[verity]

I believe you just had a dusty moment.

[Logical me]

So we're not supposed to go to war until all our troops are free of sin? Punish the wrongdoers and get on with it!

What wrongdoers? Not proved yet. I would like to know who the witnesses are?

[new yorker 77]

I repeat. The AP is not worthy of an "If this is true". They lie way too much.

[SE Mom]

Excellent points.

[GB]

That's not my line, that's from The Duke in an earlier post, I put it in italics to signal that I was quoting him. My response to The Duke was "Amen," the reason I said that being that even if, and that's a gigantic IF, this accusation should be proven to be true, it should in no way halt or hinder our mission in Iraq.

[CyberAnt]

It's the terrorists in Iraq playing to the whining and complaining of the left in America - "bring the troops home now" crowd.

It's so obvious to me .. all of a sudden we have all these accusations against our troops .. it's just too coincidental for me. I believe this whole scheme is to promote outrage against our troops and FORCE America to withdraw.

We must not allow that to happen.

[GB]

I respect your right to hold this opinion. I would love to see these accusations proven completely and totally wrong. There is an ongoing investigation and the truth will come out. I will repeat my .02 on this situation. If these accusations are proven to be accurate, those involved should be punished to the fullest extent of military law and justice. If they are proven to be inaccurate, these men should be returned to their jobs and we should hammer the people who tried to make a mountain out of a molehill as hard as we can for as long as we have breath. But EITHER WAY, we move forward with the mission in Iraq.

[Eagles6]

Well put.

[new yorker 77]

I just think that focusing on the crap from the MSM is a waste of valuable energy.

I prefer trying to get Justice Stevens to take up rock climbing.

[Tannerone]

I wonder if there is an investigation under for the two brutalized US Forces? I doubt it! Rest assured Russia will kill their murders before any action is taken by the wet pantie crowd concerning the two US Forces

[xzins]

Here is my guess on what's might be bringing on this rash of "atrocity" reports.

Someone gets these soldiers commiserating over their actions at some point after an engagement. It is someone with supposed protection of a soldier's confidentiality.

These folks get the soldiers into a crisis debriefing format. Get them comfortable talking about what they saw, did, smelt, heard. Then they ask them about their opinions and feelings.

Such PTSD counselors only have an appearance of confidentialty. Any "crime" (or "crimish sounding event") reported by troops probably requires a report to follow.

In an attempt to forego the "Vietnam Syndrome" the military has unleased "counselors" on its troops' feelings. I'm guessing (pure speculation with a bit of experience thrown in) that some of these counselors seem to be getting info into the hands of the unauthorized OR that someone who gets their reports is getting info into the hands of the unauthorized.

This explains the regular appearance in these reports of a line that goes like: "as reported by one of the soldiers in the unit."

I hate to recommend it, but if I were a commander, I'd be extremely cautious by whom my troops had any kind of Post Traumatic Stress Debriefing on return to the FOB or the rear. I wouldn't allow foreign or civilian counselors access to my troops.

Warn your kids, neighbors, etc. in Iraq/Afghan to beware the post traumatic stress debriefings.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Soldiers perform thousands of acts of kindness and heroism daily.

To make this 'accusation' a headline is a disgrace.

To acknowledge it would also require one to not only believe the congenital liars in the press but would also require one to have serve selective amnesia when it comes to stories like this.

The AP is not worthy of an "If this is true". They lie way too much."

new yorker 77

---

PING for Troop Support!

[DJ Taylor]

"as reported by one of the soldiers in the unit."

Translation= shithouse rumor

[xzins]

I agree that "shithouse rumor" is one way these stories can get blown out of proportion.

But, once we assume that, then we've got to figure out who's getting that "shithouse rumor" into the hands of the authorities and the media.

It sure as heck wouldn't willingly be the company or battalion commander.

[DJ Taylor]

"But, once we assume that, then we've got to figure out who's getting that "shithouse rumor" into the hands of the authorities and the media.

Here’s my take on this from another thread:

This story an all the other renditions are just spin-offs from the original Associated Press story by an “embedded reporter,” and all of the gory details are attributed to unnamed officials.

What this tells me is that insurgents, in all likelihood, created this incident and reported it as having been done by U.S. soldiers. Of course, the Command investigates all accusations no matter how unfounded and unlikely they may be. Once a liberal-left Associated Press reporter learned of an ongoing investigation, he started searching for information, and as no one who was involved in the investigation would speak to him, he went to the “latrine,“ started picking up shithouse rumors and quoting them as coming from unnamed officials.

I'm sure the investigation will eventually conclude that these five soldiers did not take part in this alleged atrocity, but by that time these unfounded accusations will have been accepted as proof of guilt through out the world.

General William Tecumseh Sherman was on to something when he said, “I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast.”

[stephenjohnbanker]

Support Our Troops ~ Bump!

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[usmcobra]

What A sad day it is when our own troops will and have seen their day in court while members of Al Queda can't be tried in Gitmo for their actions by our military.

[pissant]

Here is the APs version in Italics, Pissants response below the AP's paragraphs:

BEIJI, Iraq — A group of American soldiers in an insurgent-riddled town allegedly noticed a young Iraqi woman when on patrol and later returned to rape her, according to U.S. officials Friday. In an apparent cover-up attempt, she and three members of her family then were killed and her body was set on fire.

Please note that the anonymous source was a "US Official" and not a US military leaker. In other words, it is someone who has no clue about the ongoing investigation, and is 2nd or 3rd hand rumors. Later, this dumbsh*t reporter does quote anonymous "military" officials, but we can be pretty certain the guy in this paragraph was not. And ANYONE who is going to be telling the AP anything, is obviously not in favor of the war. Simple as that. And the "apparent coverup" sentence is PURE speculation, and is as valid as me guessing that Ryan Lenz is a child molester.

Five U.S. troops are being investigated, a U.S. military official told The Associated Press.

It is the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.

The suspects in the killing, which took place in March, were from the same platoon as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad this month, said the official, who is close to the investigation and spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

Of course, a story like this needs to bring up that this is the FIFTH pending investigation, eventhough we can be damn sure that the Hidatha case is a pile of lies. And at this point he is still quoting the military official "close to the investigation". So the guy close to the investigation's big secret is that the guys being investigated were from the same platoon as the murdered soldiers. But he put these paragraphes above in the story for a reason. See the sleight of hand next...

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the U.S. official said. The official said the rape and killings appear to have been a "crime of opportunity," noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

NOW HE IS BACK TO QUOTING THE ANONYMOUS "US OFFICIAL", NOT THE MILITARY GUY CLOSE TO THE INVESTIGATION. The clueless rumor monger source strikes again.

One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child, said a senior Army official who also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Some of the suspects allegedly burned the woman's body to cover up the attack, the U.S. official said.

So NOW he quotes a anonymous Army official who says one of the dead is a child. Big Whoop. But the 2nd sentence, once again uses the clueless "US Official", not the Army guy, to state they burned the bodies in a coverup. THIS BLENDING OF SOURCES WITHIN A PARAGRAPH IS A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO GET THE READER TO THINK THAT HIS MILITARY SOURCES ARE MAKING THESE STATEMENTS.

In slain soldiers' platoon

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a sparse statement, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.

However, the U.S. official said the soldiers were assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment. The official told the AP that the suspects were from the same platoon as two slain soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah southwest of Baghdad.

The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. THE OFFICIAL said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

This Mf'n "OFFICIAL" makes Joe Wilson sound sane and reasonable.

According to the senior Army official, the alleged incident first was revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.

A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.

So now we have supposedly two guys that did not see anything, yet they are the guys who DISCLOSED the alleged assault?

Before the soldier disclosed the alleged assault, senior officers had been aware of the family's death but believed it was a result of sectarian violence, the official said.

1 of 5 already discharged

One of the five suspects already has been discharged for unspecified charges unrelated to the killings and is believed to be in the United States, two U.S. officials said on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya.

Back to US Officials again, non military.

The allegations of rape could generate a particularly strong backlash in Iraq, a conservative, strongly religious society in which many women will not even shake hands with men who are not close relatives.

And this damn author is doing his best to make sure the world knows about the allegations. And he knows damn well how the rest of the media will run with this above the fold. Why would an American reporter want to blast these ridiculous allegations all over the world, and on top of that, use deceptive reporting to make it seem that the allegations have any merit whatsoever at this point in time? TRAITOR.

The case is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.

Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.

Yep, better bring up the 8 charged, just in case the readers missed it last week.

U.S. officials also are investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.

Better bring up Haditha, but be sure NOT to note how flimsy those allegations are turning out to be. Anb by all means, don't mention that Time has had 3 retractions already on their pathetic smear job.

Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of an unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February, and the death of an Iraqi soldier after an interrogation in 2003 at a detention camp in Qaim.

Better mention this too.

The allegations have aroused public anger against the U.S. military presence at a time when the new Iraqi government and U.S. authorities are trying to reach out to disaffected Sunni Arabs to quell the insurgency and calm sectarian tensions.

And Ryan Lenz is leading the charge to arouse public anger, pure and simple, on the flimsiest of rumours.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Sounds like good advice.

Under certain conditions, men can and will say anything.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Excellent!

B U M P

[jazusamo]

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a sparse statement, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman,

Excellent analysis pissant.

The only named source in the entire piece was Maj. Gen. Thurman and that was only to say there would be an investigation. The balance of the piece was:

anonymous U.S. officials

anonymous military official

anonymous soldier

This is clearly an excellent example of gutter journalism with our military being the clear target.

[SandRat]

That's OK,.....you should hear me when I get out where no one can hear me being totally uncivil and screaming long-shoreman french at the gleeful leftist idiots. Then again you might not want to hear the uncivil things I have to say in long-shoreman french - definately not fit things for family fare or ladies to hear.

[SandRat]

I was just thinking as I was painting the trim on the house this morning how this whole thing sounds like the theme from a Sean Penn anti-War movie.

[CyberAnt]

Hmmmm?? Wasn't there a similar story in Afghanistan claiming our soldiers had "burned" a body of an insurgent ..??

I just keep seeing too many similarities between what the "insurgents" say happened and what, if anything, really happened. I find it extremely difficult to believe that a young woman would be allowed out at night to wander the streets - unless she was a whore - and if so - SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED. Geeeeeee .. isn't that what our soldiers are being charged with.

And .. the insurgents keep using civilians as shields - forcing our soldiers to shoot innocent people in order to get at the terrorists. I'm sure our soldiers try very hard not to do that .. but sometimes it comes down to the soldiers' life vs. the terrorist - and I believe this is just a casualty of war; sadly!

This seems more like another cover-up - charging our soldiers with a crime - when in fact it was the insurgents who actually killed these people and now they're trying to blame it on us. This is just more of the terrorists cooperating with the drive-by media who is yelling: "bring the troops home, now" .. and figuring if they show all kinds of atrocities .. it will cause us to leave Iraq.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!

[SandRat]

You got that right

[sinkspur]

This is clearly an excellent example of gutter journalism with our military being the clear target.

I really don't understand the rationalizations surrounding these stories.

The details are being released by military officials authorized by the Pentagon to speak on background.

If the military did not want these details out, they would not be out, or those doing the "leaking" would be hung out to dry, very publicly.

[jazusamo]

The details are being released by military officials authorized by the Pentagon to speak on background. If the military did not want these details out, they would not be out, or those doing the "leaking" would be hung out to dry, very publicly.

Do you have a source or is this your opinion?

[TexKat]

Air assault spearheads push to hurt insurgency in area south of Baghdad

By Andrew Tilghman, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Saturday, March 4, 2006


MAHMUDIYAH, Iraq — Hundreds of soldiers poured out of helicopters before dawn Thursday morning and a large convoy kicked off Friday morning, spreading out troops into a patch of canal-laced farmland south of Baghdad that remains one of the last insurgent strongholds outside the capital city.

The air assault launched one of the largest operations in months and aims to secure a rural area where insurgents have operated for months, officials said. A steady string of roadside bombs and mortar attacks have inflicted casualties on U.S. troops in the restive region known as the “Triangle of Death.”

“This could be the final crushing blow for the anti-Iraqi forces in the Baghdad area,” said Lt. Col. Thomas Kunk, commander of the 101st Airborne’s 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment.

After a safe and secure landing, soldiers from the 1st Battalion came under repeated mortar fire Thursday in the blocking positions they set up around a large power plant on the Euphrates River, which insurgents have used as a base of operations.

Soldiers from the 2nd Battalion moved in early Friday and swept south toward the village of Sadr Yusufiyah, a cluster of ramshackle homes that U.S. troops also believe insurgents use to stage attacks on U.S troops and civilians in Baghdad, just 25 miles north.

Commanders opted for an air assault rather than sending vehicles through bomb-seeded roads avoided by U.S. forces in recent months.

One soldier from the 2nd Battalion was evacuated Friday after he was shot in the leg during a gunbattle. No other casualties were reported as of Friday afternoon.

Soldiers from 1st Battalion detained one man and also found a cache of a single mortar tube and several automatic rifles, U.S. troops said.

As U.S. soldiers came under fire, they responded with mortars and counter-battery artillery from nearby U.S. bases, said Maj. Fred Wintrich, the executive officer with 1st Battalion.

The operation in the rural areas marked a significant shift for the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, which spent much of the past week focusing on security operations in the urban centers to stem potential sectarian violence in the wake of last week’s bombing of a large Shiite shrine in Samarra.

The 101st Airborne’s 2nd Brigade Combat Team has faced one of the toughest fights in Iraq. The Fort Campbell, Ky.-based unit has seen 31 soldiers killed since arriving here in November.

The targeted area is thick with a mix of Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters. A Saudi Arabian man and several Iraqis were arrested last week after an Iraqi army unit found them carrying an anti-aircraft gun in their pick-up truck, officials said.

In keeping with the clear-and- hold strategy employed by U.S. troops in recent months, soldiers from the 2nd Battalion plan to set up a permanent patrol base in the village of Sadr Yusufiyah, officials said.

The insurgents’ attacks have fallen particularly heavy on the 1st-502nd’s Company B, which has lost six men and sent several others home with serious injuries since its arrival. Capt. John Goodwin, Company B commander, hopes this week’s assault will ease the daily attacks on the patrol bases and traffic checkpoints.

“We’ve kicked the hornets nest a few times already, now we are going to take a baseball bat and give it a good whack,” Goodwin said.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=34606&archive=true

[SE Mom]

"The targeted area is thick with a mix of Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters. A Saudi Arabian man and several Iraqis were arrested last week after an Iraqi army unit found them carrying an anti-aircraft gun in their pick-up truck, officials said. "

hhmmmm..

[sinkspur]

It's my opinion. But, we've had five cases of alleged malfeasance by troops, and, in every case, an anonymous military source released details of the case.

The Bush administration keeps secrets better than any administration in recent history. One assumes that this also applies to the DoD.

Ask yourself this question: If the leaks are not authorized, why were they not stopped after the initial case, or the Haiditha case?

The fact that they have not stopped indicates that the Pentagon wants to get details out on background.

[Txsleuth]

How can you say that the Bush Administration keeps secrets better than any administration in recent history??

All we keep reading on the front page of the NYTimes are leaked information.

BUT, we do know that the CIA, the STATE Dept., and the Pentagon all have "lifers" that do not like Bush..and haven't hesitated to make their feelings known...some have even written books.

I think the REAL CRIME is that these agencies employ people that would rather humiliate the POTUS/CIC, than protect our country.

I am not saying anything definitive about this particular incident...what makes me the most suspicious is that the ones that "admitted" what happened, say they weren't involved..how convenient.

[jazusamo]

I find it very difficult to believe the Pentagon is intentionally releasing information under the table to crucify their own people and organization

We have a presumption of innocence in our legal system whether it be civilian or military and I for one am skeptical of anyone trying to preempt that presumption, especially a journalist out to make a name for themself.

When these people start naming their sources, I'll start to believe at least some of what they say and not until.

[TexKat]

Sgt. Timothy Atz test fits a desk top during a mission in southern Baghdad. Atz and the rest his civil affairs team attached to 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment are working to refurbish desks at 10 schools in the area. (Photo by Spc. Karl Johnson, 363rd MPAD)

Soldiers Make Learning Easier for Iraqi Children

RELEASE NUMBER: 060317-01

DATE POSTED: MARCH 17, 2006

By Spc. Karl Johnson 363rd Mobile Public Affairs Detachment

FOB MAHMUDIYAH, Iraq (USASOC News Service, Mar. 17, 2006) – Ask Iraqi children what they want to be when they grow up. You’ll find little difference in the hopes and dreams of Iraqi children from that of American children. Whether to be a doctor, a policeman or a businessman, these children imagine themselves as successful adults and see no reason why their goals should not come true.

They cram into schools throughout Iraq, sometimes without even the simplest of learning materials that most take for granted. These children face an uphill struggle to success, but there are those who share in their goals and do everything they can to help the children receive the best education possible.

Armed with hammers, drills and stacks of wood in place of their usual rifles, Civil Affairs Soldiers based out of Forward Operating Base Mahmudiyah in southern Baghdad began refurbishing desks for local schools March 9. ...

[freema]

Sometimes, lately, I feel like I'm on life support with these stories.

I feel like the left keeps yanking my oxygen off and then one of you FReepers comes and jams it back on my face.

Thank you.




I don't want to imagine how the mothers of the accused must feel.