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I've never wanted to think Mats Wilander was handsome as I do but I never thought the issue involved something theological . . . |
Posted on 07/02/2006 11:36:15 PM PDT by scripter
A feature published in The Columbus Dispatch (June 11) describes the work of New Pathways Ohio, a ministry affiliated with Exodus International.
The head of New Pathways is headed by Elton L. Moose of Springfield, an ex-gay and one of the charter members of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. Moose was also a participant in Dr. Robert Spitzer's study of individuals who have dealt with their same-sex attractions.
Columbus Dispatch reporter Rita Price interviewed three men who attend New Pathways in an effort to deal with their unwanted same-sex attractions. David, who only wanted his first name used in the article, told her: "Don't tell me that I have to be gay. Who is the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, to say that no one can change? Can you be certain there are no white ravens? No, you can't. Not unless you've seen them all."
David continued: "We call ourselves overcomers. We are not defined by our temptations. I'm still a virgin with both genders. If I did less than 1 percent of what went on in my mind, I'd have died of AIDS long ago."
Lynne Bowman, head of Equality Ohio believes that the growth of ex-gay movements is a hindrance to the struggle for gay acceptance. She notes: "It's the only question that matters. People think that if it's a choice, or something that can be changed, then we shouldn't be protecting the rights of those are gay."
HA Ping
Lynne, there is no genetic test or procedure (experimental or otherwise) that can determine your sexual orientation. The only available evidence is your testimony that you're gay. Likewise, the only available evidence that somebody is ex-gay is their testimony. There is no reason we should believe your testimony over the testimony of an ex-gay.
A 22-year-old man stands before a classroom of middle schoolers, describing how he came out as a homosexual and going so far as to declare, "there are gay students in this classroom."The young man is Noé Gutierrez, Jr., and the scene is one from It's Elementary, an award-winning 1996 video (widely aired in 1999) which aims to give "practical lessons on how to talk with kids about gay people."
You won't find that scene in Gutierrez's latest video, however. Although he requested permission to use it, producer/director Debra Chasnoff turned him down. Apparently, she doesn't want school children knowing what's happened since then.
You see, Gutierrez is no longer gay.
If you're not sure where you stand on this issue, you may find this of interest: Dr. Robert Spitzer Interviewed In 'Christianity Today' Magazine. Read that very carefully. Take special note of who Dr. Spitzer is, what he used to think and what he thinks and says now.
This guy proves that sodomite-ism is a learned condition. Gay rights groups hate him because he is succesful in turning fags straight.
More power to him.
Now is it that gay men end up liking vagina, or is it that they choose not to act on homosexual feelings the rest of their lives? I'm just unclear as to what these groups do.
It's like counciling a person that cuts themselves when they get depressed. Homosexual self-destructivness is a mental condition that can be cured, it's no different than a suicidal person bent on hurting themselves- homosexual behavior is a cry for help. It's meant to disgust others so that they pay attention to them.
Damn the truth, we have a gay agenda to advance.
Sex is a powerful reinforcement mechanism. You can learn to get turned on by just about anything. Where do you think all these strange fetishes come from? You think people are born liking plastic, or wearing diapers, or being urinated on or whatever else is out there? Most of sexuality is between the ears.
But part of the problem is though, that these ex-gays eventhough they have developed an attraction for women, might still have some attraction for men. Unless the therapy includes some effective conditioning that makes them repulsed by same-sex attraction, they probably retain some homosexual attractions.
Now is it that gay men end up liking vagina, or is it that they choose not to act on homosexual feelings the rest of their lives? I'm just unclear as to what these groups do.
I believe they go into a life of abstenance. Some are marrying lesbians which is one of the ways to raise the numbers. I think there needs to be way more studies on this before I would consider it an achievement. It just makes me wonder why they have to charge these folks. If they did this for free, I would be more accepted. It is a huge money maker.
No, most of them go on and marry regular women and have families. And its a huge moneymaker? Where did you get that from? It takes money to have buildings and provide therapy. They don't have the government or even Bill Gates picking up the tab, what are they suppose to do?
No, most of them go on and marry regular women and have families. And its a huge moneymaker?
I guess I am refering to the story where the guy was an X-gay and then ended up frequenting the gay bars. They used him as a poster boy and that turned me off two these type of things. I know that we need to find some way of helping homosexuals find salvation but some of these groups may not be the best alternative. As far, as financial needing of buildings, staff, theraphy etc, you are correct.
So, some who attempt this change fail. What does that prove? That many don't find change and deliverance from a debased lifestyle?
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. -- 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Thanks for the ping.
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I've never wanted to think Mats Wilander was handsome as I do but I never thought the issue involved something theological . . . |
You have summarized the issues quite well. Some are not interested in the truth that gays can leave the lifestyle and we can see yet another example in post 4.
Indeed. There are degrees of change with some completely leaving the homosexual lifestyle, some struggling but remaining abstinent and some seeing no change, and a number of different combinations.
There is a great article posted here with links to more information: Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences.
That's quite a different scenario from what you mentioned in post 14. Sure, some fail and that's not surprising, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't offer help to those who want change.
As you said, there needs to be a lot more studies on the subject. Unfortunately, radical homosexuals do all they can to stop any work on the subject. Fortunately, as the article says, ex-gay groups are growing and that's a good thing.
good to see you back around. I hadn't seen you post on here in a while.
ping for future reference material
Thanks for posting this, scrip!
This is the core of the matter:
"It's the only question that matters. People think that if it's a choice, or something that can be changed, then we shouldn't be protecting the rights of those are gay."
Thanks. I've been concentrating on a couple of other things and will be involved here in some limited fashion.
Check my profile for more reference material.
That is certainly how I see it. We should not base rights on behavior, and sexual behavior at that.
Because the ex-gay movement is growing we'll see more attempts from radical homosexuals to silence ex-gays. Some folks and organizations have a lot to lose here.
While I can understand from where the radical homosexuals are coming as who wants to lose any political ground they've grabbed in recent years, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't offer help to those who want to leave the homosexual lifestyle.
One would think folks are interested in the truth but truth and politics are unfortunately, rarely found together. :-/
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