Feds Hide Social Security Deal With Mexico

NewsMax ^ | July 3, 2006 | Dave Eberhart

[conservativecorner]

WASHINGTON -- "We might be on the cusp of giving billions of dollars worth of our senior's Social Security money to illegal Mexican workers, and it's getting almost no media attention whatsoever," warned Brad Phillips, a spokesman for TREA Senior Citizens League, one of the nation's largest nonpartisan seniors groups with 1.2 million members.

TREA Senior Citizens League filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit in U.S. District Court Thursday morning - after what the group styled as "numerous refusals over three years by the U.S. Department of State and Social Security Administration to provide a draft of - or virtually any pertinent information regarding - the impact of the Totalization Agreement with Mexico on the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund."

The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund. The agreement between the U.S. and Mexico was signed in June 2004, and is awaiting President Bush's signature.

"President Bush has expressed his support for this Agreement, and we believe that regardless of the current immigration debate, his most likely window for signing it is immediately after the 2006 midterm elections when no one is looking," TREA spokesman Brad Phillips told NewsMax.

Once President Bush approves the agreement, which would be done without congressional vote, either house would have 60 days to disapprove the agreement by voting to reject it.

"We are outraged that our government won't tell us how much they plan to take out of the Social Security Trust Fund to pay for the Totalization Agreement with Mexico, and we want to know what they're hiding," said Ralph McCutchen, Chairman of the TREA Senior Citizens League.

"Our 1.2 million elderly members didn't play by the rules and sacrifice through two World Wars so we could fund millions of workers who crossed the border and decided to work here illegally," McCutchen added.

Under the Totalization Agreement, millions of illegal Mexicans working in the United States today could claim benefits from the Social Security Trust Fund for work performed while in the United States illegally. They could do so through immigration amnesty, through which they could claim past Social Security payments for illegal work.

They could also potentially return to Mexico and claim credits for illegal work in the U.S., or claim payments through other as yet undisclosed methods.

The U.S. currently has 21 similar agreements in effect with other nations, which are intended to eliminate dual taxation for persons who work outside their country of origin. All of the agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S.

For example, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under Totalization agreements, a partial benefit can be paid based on the proportion of the worker's total career completed in the paying country.

[butternut_squash_bisque]

My BP is spiking just reading this crap! SOBs!!

[conservativecorner]

Karl Rove and La Raza


Looky, looky, looky:

The National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest national Latino civil rights and advocacy organization in the U.S., announced today that former President Bill Clinton, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa are among the confirmed speakers for the upcoming NCLR Annual Conference which will be held July 8-11 at the Los Angeles Convention Center in Los Angeles, CA.

Can someone tell Rove that speaking at a La Raza Event may not be in the interests of the United States of America. PATHETIC!!

[Clara Lou]

Here's a link to Social Security's take on the matter. http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico-alt.htm
It has some interesting explanations.

[gondramB]

>>The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund.<<

How!?

Have they paid into social security? If so, they are still losing money like all the rest of us.

[conservativecorner]

See post #3 only after you have duct taped your head to keep it from exploding.

Background on La Raza

[Clara Lou]

Can someone tell Rove that speaking at a La Raza Event may not be in the interests of the United States of America.
"May not be"? But it could be. We'll find out when he speaks.

[Bikers4Bush]

You know he's going to sign it so our only hope at this point is that the house rejects it.

[Mr. Mojo]

"President Bush has expressed his support for this Agreement, and we believe that regardless of the current immigration debate, his most likely window for signing it is immediately after the 2006 midterm elections when no one is looking,"

Once President Bush approves the agreement, which would be done without congressional vote, either house would have 60 days to disapprove the agreement by voting to reject it.

That being the case, supporters of this agreement should be hoping the Dems recapture the House.

[pepsionice]

The way this works...because I'm a US citizen working in Germany...is that I get a five year exemption from Germany...to keep paying into the US pot of social security. When that five year exemption runs out...which it did last year for me...I must start paying German social security (which is 2 percent higher than I was paying into the US pot). If I choose to leave Germany...whenever...I can have the money I put into the German pot...transferred over to the US social security side. The plus side is that I still keeping into some pot somewhere.

When you measure the deal with Mexico...which is basically the same deal...I'm guessing that every Mexican in the US refuses the five year exemption deal and immedately starts paying into the US pot. After working 15 years in the US system...you have a tremendous amount of retirement income at 65....compared to what you'd have in Mexico. Would matter if you worked another day in the US after 15 years....that retirement check at 65 would guarantee you a mountain of retirement cash...which you'd never get in Mexico.

As for us losing something out of the system...maybe...but then social security is bankrupt...as is the German social scurity program....and all the rest of these deals. So people can whine all they want...it doesn't make much difference. The only complaint you can make is that this is all part of globalizaion in some fashion. Where it leads to in 30 years will be the interesting part....people who born in one country...then migrate and work in another country....then retire in a 3rd country.

[Clara Lou]

Did you know:
The United States currently has Social Security agreements with Canada, Chile, South Korea, Australia and most of Western Europe."
"Most of Western Europe" includes Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Norway, UK, Sweden, France, Spain. Canada is also included. I didn't know any of this.

[AmericaUnited]

It's very smart strategy to try to influence a huge voting block. What would you have Rove rather do, tell them to go to hell? Rove has been extremely successful at winning campaigns because he does think like a perturbed little child.

[seasoned traditionalist]

Thanks friend for saving me the time and trouble. Was getting (all worked up) and ready to post this myself.

As a Seasoned Citizen, who is going to be filing for retirement benefits shortly, this is an abomination.

Worse yet, is for you younger Freepers, for while those who are now--or like myself who are about to begin-- collecting, we probably don't have to worry about having our benefits cut off.

However, for younger Americans, there are only two options to consider: Either they will have to pay more in SS withholdings or will [either] have "their" benefits reduced and/or have to wait until a later date (i.e. age 65 or even 67) to begin collecting.

The real shame is the Administration's complicity in this travesty, compounded, by their utter intransigence in their willingness to release the information relevant thereto.

[conservativecorner]

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA
1111 19th Street NW
Suite 1000
Washington, DC
20036

Phone :202-785-1670
URL :http://www.nclr.org/









Largest Hispanic organization in the U.S.
Lobbies for racial preferences, bilingual education, stricter hate crimes laws, mass immigration, and amnesty for illegal aliens
Named as a key member of the Open Borders Lobby in the pamphlet The Open Borders Lobby and the Nation's Security After 9/11, written by William Hawkins and Erin Anderson
Principally funded by the Ford Foundation


Currently the largest Hispanic organization in the U.S., the National Council of La Raza (“the Race”) was established originally in 1968 as the Southwest Council of La Raza, for the purpose of “improv[ing] life opportunities for Hispanic Americans.”The group was initiated by a research project funded by the Ford Foundation. Today La Raza has more than 270 formal affiliates serving 40 states, and a broader nationwide network of more than 30,000 groups and individuals who reach at least 3.5 million Hispanics in the U.S. and Puerto Rico. Notwithstanding this large base of support, more than two-thirds of La Raza’s funding comes from corporations and foundations, and much of the rest stems from government sources. Between 2001 and 2003, the Ford Foundation alone gave La Raza some $9.83 million, including a single grant of $8.05 million.

In turn, each year La Raza grants large amounts of this money to “Hispanic cornmunity-based organizations,” some of which are quite obscure. Of the $1.3 million it gave out in 1996, for instance, $126,000 went to El Hogar del Nifio, $9,000 went to Chicanos por la Causa, and $30,000 was earmarked for Cabrillo Economic Development.

La Raza’s politics are at the far left of the political spectrum. Its Policy Analysis Center lobbies for affirmative action, bilingual education, stricter hate crimes laws, mass immigration, and amnesty for illegal aliens. La Raza characterizes increased immigration control as a violation of civil rights, and the reduction of government handouts to immigrants as “a disgrace to American values.”

La Raza was a signatory – along with more than 120 other leftwing organizations – to a 2000 campaign to increase the minimum wage. La Raza was also a signatory to a March 17, 2003 letter exhorting members of the U.S. Congress “to oppose the Domestic Security Enhancement Act (DSEA), also known as ‘Patriot [Act] II,’” which was then under consideration. These signatories stated that the new legislation “fail[ed] to respect our time-honored liberties,” and “contain[ed] a multitude of new and sweeping law enforcement and intelligence gathering powers . . . that would severely dilute, if not undermine, many basic constitutional rights.” In addition, La Raza has given its organizational endorsement to the Community Resolution to Protect Civil Liberties campaign, a project of the California-based Coalition for Civil Liberties (CCL). The CLL tries to influence city councils to pass resolutions creating Civil Liberties Safe Zones; that is, to be non-compliant with the provisions of the Patriot Act.

La Raza has also endorsed the December 18, 2001 “Statement of Solidarity with Migrants,” which was drawn up by the National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. The statement called upon the U.S. government to “[r]ecognize the contribution of immigrant workers, students, and families, and [to] end discriminatory policies passed on the basis of legal status in the wake of September 11”; to “[g]uarantee and provide relief to the loved ones of the victims and those unemployed in the World Trade Center attacks, regardless of immigration status, without intimidation or threat of deportation”; and to adopt “the Plan of Action from the 2001 UN World Conference Against Racism, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance” – which was largely a forum for angry anti-American and anti-Israel tirades.

Furthermore, La Raza endorsed the Civil Liberties Restoration Act (CLRA) of 2004, which was introduced by Democratic Senators Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahy, Russell Feingold, Richard Durbin, and Jon Corzine, and Democratic Representatives Howard Berman and William Delahunt. The CLRA was designed to roll back, in the name of protecting civil liberties, vital national-security policies that had been adopted after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

La Raza is also a sponsoring organization of the Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride Coalition, which seeks to secure ever-expanding rights and civil liberties protections for undocumented workers, amnesty for illegal immigrants, and policy reforms that diminish or eliminate restrictions on immigration.

In addition to the Ford Foundation, La Raza also receives funding from: the American Express Foundation; the AT&T Foundation; the Carnegie Corporation of New York; the Annie E. Casey Foundation; the Fannie Mae Foundation; the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; the Joyce Foundation; the W. K. Kellogg Foundation; the John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation; the Open Society Institute; the David and Lucile Packard Foundation; the Rockefeller Foundation; and the Verizon Foundation.

[TomGuy]

Per some reports, this Trialization bill would allow the relatives of illegals, no matter where they are in the world, to apply for US Social Security benefits, too.

It is a massive bill.

Who keep selling the US out to Mexican interests????

Specter allowed Levin (IIRC) to insert that amendment into the Senate Immigration bill that mandates Mexico be consulted on border matters.

If the goal is to merge the US, Mexico, and Canada, at least have the cajones to tell the American people --- and give them the opportunity to vote on this, rather than doing it behind our backs, in secret agreements.

[pointsal]

Once again, Rove has his head up his ass.

[Condor51]

• Social Security actuaries estimate that a totalization agreement with Mexico would have a negligible long-range effect on the Trust Funds.
• Costs to the U.S. Social Security system are estimated to average about $105 million per year over the first five years. These costs are for additional benefits to eligible U.S. and Mexican workers and reduced Social Security tax contributions under the dual taxation exemption.
• To put this in perspective, in 2002, costs to the U.S. system for the existing agreement with Canada were about $197 million.

There is NO way that there's more Canadians working in the US than Mexicans - no freaking way.

So throw that $105 mil in the garbage and triple (at least) the $197 mil paid to Canucks, which is $591 MILLION. There's also no way in HELL that some 30 million Mexicans making minimum wage and below, could ever, ever, ever pay that much INTO the system. Their whole extended family will be sucking the SS system dry in five years - period!

[conservativecorner]

Aztlan's Partisans
By Steve Brown and Chris Coon
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 10, 2003

The fight over what to do with the 8 to 10 million illegal aliens in our country has begun to come to a head, and the advocates for open borders, blanket amnesty and legal rights for those already here appear to be winning. In recent weeks increasing numbers of cities are implementing unlawful sanctuary policies. State officials are pushing for drivers licenses to be issued to illegals. Congress is debating amnesty for the children of aliens and the acceptance of Mexican consular identification cards seems inevitable. The White House is in discussions with Mexico to grant an amnesty for up to 2 million migrant workers. Flying in the face of recent polls that show Americans want tougher enforcement of immigration law, politicians are buckling to the demands of the radical immigrant lobby. And now one of their believers, Cruz Bustamante, is the current front-runner in the California governor's race.

Who are these groups that are able to exert this type of political pressure? What are their motivations and what kind of company do they keep?

Some of the most vocal and active advocacy groups come from the Mexican-American community. They include La Raza (The Race), LULAC (the League of United Latin American Citizens) and MALDEF (The Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund), all of whom fight for civil rights of residents (legal or otherwise) of Latin American decent. In an effort to increase their political base they fight for the acceptance of policies that would all but eliminate the southern border and allow a mass exodus to American shores by illegal aliens.

They all offer the usual mix of “solutions” to the problems they claim face their special interests; from acceptance of the foreign ID cards to the granting of in-state tuition breaks for illegal students to the allowance of government entitlement benefits. Their demands read as a laundry list of budget busting causes and national security nightmares.



Funded largely by leftist organizations, such as the Ford Foundation, these advocacy groups have found common cause with those who call for liberal policies such as Affirmative Action, voting by non-citizens, labor union organization, increased funding for federal programs such as Head Start, Women Infants and Children, increased after-school programs, expansion of Social Security benefits and other welfare initiatives.



Naturally, the Democratic Party is home to those who think this way, but the Green Party, Workers World Party and other neo-Communist political organizations have embraced the concerns of those who wish to destroy our national sovereignty.



"California is going to be a Mexican state; we are going to control all the institutions. If people don't like it they should leave." That chilling warning was given by 1998 Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient and founder of MALDEF, Mario Obeldo. Praised as a great American and a “hero” by then First Lady Hillary Clinton and California Gov. Gray Davis, Obeldo has refused to back down from his racist forecast. Between 1996 and 1998 MALDEF raised over 9 million dollars from the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Corporation to advance this goal.



MALDEF was key in the gutting of Californian Prop 187, which would have placed restrictions on illegals receiving state social aid. Putting legal and political pressure on Davis, they forced the state into dropping the appeals to overturn the district court decision striking down the referendum. On their website they trumpet their role in the usurpation of the people's power by the courts, “MALDEF is pleased in this victory of basic human and civil rights.”



One of the many goals of MALDEF is to prevent the spread of English-only laws, fighting to keep ineffectual bilingual education programs and multi-lingual election ballots. They have provided legal assistance and amicus briefs in a variety of cases that have resulted in the implementation of “reforms” legislated from the bench.



In a recent policy paper, MALDEF has presented what they call a constitutional argument against the use of local and state police enforcement of federal immigration law. Citing concerns of racial profiling and the disparity of enforcement against Mexican illegals they claim that local law enforcement agencies are not trained to deal with the sensitive nature of protecting the civil rights of naturalized citizens.



“The reason that we don’t want state and local police involved in immigration enforcement…it’s very, very bad for public safety,” MALDEF Immigration Rights Attorney Katherine Culliton told Frontpagemag.com. “If immigrants are afraid that they may get deported, they don’t report crimes. We know of cases of domestic violence where people don’t call. The overwhelming problem is that when immigrants don’t report crimes because they are afraid, then we’re all a lot less safe.”



But Houston Police Officer John Nickell, whose city has a sanctuary policy, disagreed when he testified before the House Judiciary Committee in February:



Here we have a many contradictions within law enforcement itself. First, we know that "undocumented alien" is someone who has either entered this country illegally or has overstayed his or her visa. If an individual is considered an "illegal alien," in any aspect, then we must allow all law enforcement officers to pursue every lawful action when this individual is taken into custody. Second, the Houston Police Department General Order states "we must rely upon the cooperation of all persons." Is it reasonable to even think we can expect cooperation from an individual whose first act in this country was to violate its entry laws? Should we expect cooperation from someone that refuses to adhere to the agreements of their visa and overstays their legal visitation? The third and possibly largest contradiction in this matter is the "pick and choose" type of association with other agencies. Police agencies, nationwide, enthusiastically join with the FBI and Drug Enforcement Agency for drug busts and other high profile cases. However, we refuse to even consider working with the INS for politically expedient and correct reasons.





LULAC, one of the oldest Mexican-American associations began as a pro-American, pro-citizenship patriotic group. Up until the late 1950's they called for assimilation to the “Anglo” culture and acceptance of English as the primary language of the United States. But the radical politics of the 1960's and the need to compete with more liberal groups like La Raza for funding from the major foundations led to a 180 degree turn in their mission. Supporting the deportation of illegal Mexicans during President Eisenhower's “Operation: Wetback” in the 50's, LULAC displayed the understanding that the flood of illegals to our nation lowered the opportunities for those who came here legally. In contrast José Velez, the head of LULAC 1990-1994 used his “special status with the INS” to submit false papers for over 6,000 illegals seeking amnesty. He reportedly made millions of dollars from this action, fleecing those he claimed to represent and earning himself a conviction for 10 counts of immigration fraud.



Today, LULAC embraces the race-based initiatives popular in the liberal community, allied with groups such as Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH coalition and the American Civil Liberties Union, they seek to expand and protect affirmative action programs and the expansion of legal rights and “economic justice” for the millions of Latin illegals living here.



La Raza, perhaps the most influential Latino rights group, formed by the Ford Foundation in 1968, uses a combination of foundation grants and government subsidies to conduct its Policy Analysis Center, a clearing house for radical ideas to be promoted within the Hispanic community. They have made it clear in the past that they will not hesitate to seek reprisals against elected officials that fail to support their positions, which include the right to vote by illegal residents. While demanding the blanket amnesty for illegals from Central America they warned “elected officials should not be surprised if their failure to act on reforms of these terribly unjust laws is met with a firm response at the ballot box.''



Since 9/11 they have cooperated with Arab and Muslim groups such as the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and the Arab American Institute to protest the deportation of those Arabs found to be here illegally, as well as socialist/Marxist groups such as Refuse&Resist!, a protest organization that equates the detention and deportation of those in our country illegally with concentration camps in Nazi Germany. They compare those lawfully arrested and deported with the “disappeared” political prisoners of banana republics. The level of rhetoric would be amusing, were they not so deadly serious in undermining Homeland Security.



Their motto reveals much about the cause they represent; “Por La Raza Todo, Fuera de La Raza Nada." ("For the Race, Everything; Outside the Race, Nothing.")



All three of these groups have fought the will of the majority and spoken out against protective measures such as the Patriot Act.



“One of our major concerns is that immigration will be seen through the eyes of terrorism,” MALDEF’s Culliton said. “We know that not all terrorists are immigrants and that terrorists could be citizens or immigrants, so it doesn’t make sense to make immigration the issue. Since September 11, more than 60 measures have been taken against immigrants, including Latino immigrants…such as firing people from their jobs in the airports if they weren’t citizens, although it’s fine if they serve in the war, and not one has resulted in finding any terrorists. That’s proof of our point.” It is?



Less interested in bringing about change through simple social action, a fourth Mexican identity group has far grander designs. MEChA, Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan (or Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán) is a Latino neo-Marxist organization with chapters supported by tax dollars and student funds and operating out of local high schools, as well as some of the most prestigious state and private colleges in the nation. Most Cal State colleges have chapters. Stanford University, Mills College, Yale, MIT and Georgetown host chapters as well. In all, MEChA has chapters in more than 15 states and the District of Columbia. And Cruz Bustamante, California's Lt. Governor and the lone Democrat in the recall race, has long been associated with the organization as a member and sympathetic politician.



They have been active in fighting the California referendum Prop 187, as well as seeking the abolition of Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (formerly INS), and the eliminating the border with Mexico entirely. They honor Mexican revolutionary war hero Ernesto Zapata and Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara.



Their most chilling demand is the call for “La Reconquista” or the retaking of the Southwestern states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah) to form an independent nation called “Aztlan”.



Equating the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo which ended the two-year Mexican War and granted the United States control over Texas and other parts of the Southwest with the outright theft of their land, the MEChA members believe they are justified in demanding the territories be returned to them.



On Fox News Channel’s “O'Reilly Factor,” MEChA chair Ron Gochez detailed their scheme regarding what they call the “stolen land.”



“This is indigenous land. This is native land, you know, Mexicano land,” Gochez asserted. Asked by O'Reilly “If I gave you Arizona would you be happy with that?” Gotchez replied “They took a lot more than Arizona.”



Miguel Perez, representative of he Cal State Northridge MEChA chapter has stated that the form of government preferred would be “closest to communist”, and the expulsion of non-Chicanos would be a priority. “Opposition groups would be quashed because you have to keep the power.” Perez has stated.



Their manifesto, EL PLAN DE AZTLÁN, paints a disturbing picture. Using revolutionary rhetoric lifted straight from Marx and Stalin, they make clear who they consider their enemies. The plan begins, “In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal 'gringo' invasion of our territories...Aztlán belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans.”



Calling for unity of all the “brothers” of the “bronze continent,” they seek a nationalist movement: “Nationalism as the key to organization transcends all religious, political, class, and economic factions or boundaries. Nationalism is the common denominator that all members of La Raza can agree upon.” Neglecting the differences in Hispanic nations of origin or the difference in various Indian populations within Mexico and the American Southwest, they cling to a false nationality comprised of “bronze” skinned peoples.



Their economic model is a mix of nationalistic Marxism, stating that their “cultural background” will “contribute to the act of cooperative buying and the distribution of resources and production. Land and realty ownership will be acquired by the community for the people's welfare. Economic ties of responsibility must be secured by nationalism and the Chicano defense units.”



Their goal is clearly spelled out: to “drive the exploiter out of our community and a welding together of our people’s combined resources to control their own production through cooperative effort.”



MEChA also calls for reparations, asking for “Restitution for past economic slavery, political exploitation, ethnic and cultural psychological destruction and denial of civil and human rights.” The manifesto seeks to repaint “acts of juvenile delinquency” as political “revolutionary” acts.



Recognizing the fact that under current immigration and population trends Latinos will soon occupy the majority in the targeted states they warn “Where we are a majority, we will control.”



The former speaker of the California Assembly, Antonio Villaraigoza was a member of MEChA during his studies at UCLA in the 70's. While head of one of the most powerful state bodies in the country, he pushed for and advocated policies that grant rights to illegals. His dual loyalty is clear, and he is not alone.



Other former members of this radical student group hold positions of power in California. Lt Governor, and new candidate for governor in the recall election of Gray Davis, Cruz Bustamante was a member of MEChA during his years at Fresno State University. Often described as a moderate Democrat, Bustamante has enjoyed a rather non-controversial reputation. “I wasn't the most radical Mechista.” he has claimed. How reassuring.



At a press conference to discuss immigration reform for California, then a state assemblyman representing the Fresno area Bustamante caused a stir when he stated "We could not conduct business without the immigrant." Reporters, looking for clarification asked if he was referring to illegal immigration. Many were shocked at his answer. "My district requires it [illegal immigration]." Fresno, a large farming community in southern California draws a majority of its workers from south of the boarder. Following that uproar he limited press conferences regarding the issue to Spanish language media.



MEChA has led demonstrations calling for state legislatures to enact laws and proclamations decrying the federal government’s current immigration policy, and this anti-American seditionist organization has spoken out against what they claim are unfair deportations resulting from the 9/11 attacks. Often they are joined by other “progressive” student groups who do not seem phased by the racist call to rid these states of Anglos. Chapters have enjoyed the support of groups such as the Filipino American Student Organization, the Black Student Union, Free Mumia, the Coalition/Anti-Racist Action, and Commission of the Michigan Student Assembly (MSA), the National Lawyers Guild, the Caribbean People's Association and the International Socialist Organization. Dozens more student ethnic-identity and left-wing groups have demonstrated with MEChA for common causes such as Affirmative Action.



As has been clearly shown, these "dissident" organizations, backed by large donations from groups such as the Ford Foundation, or worse by our own tax dollars constitute a united front to destroy the very freedoms that define our nation and sets United States citizenship as the unique, special status it has earned throughout the globe. Wishing it away will not stave off the mounting storm, nor will reliance of politicians whose career ambitions preclude them from any serious preventive initiative. Unless some widespread groundswell of public opinion or grassroots activism rises to thwart this juggernaut dedicated to tearing down our borders, we could wake up one day to 14 percent of our nation gone, usurped by a racist state called Aztlan.

[Clara Lou]

Per some reports,
It would seem to me that the rules for Mexico in this deal would have to be the same as those for persons in the nations I listed in post #11. Can relatives of people of those countries do what you say? Seems like we need some facts here.

[seasoned traditionalist]

An after thought: Just how many of the estimated (depending on who's numbers are accurate) 12 - 20 million Illegals in the US have "VALID" Social Security numbers?

Duh!!

If they do, how did they get them?

And for the ones who don't (which I am going to assume are the majority) just HOW, can they claim benefits when they retire?

I hope the answers are in the report the State Dept and SS Admin are refusing to release and we somehow (Where are the leakers/whistelblowers when we really need them) get to see it?

[meema]

Can someone tell Rove that speaking at a La Raza Event may not be in the interests of the United States of America. PATHETIC!!

Rove doesn't care what WE think...We're only US Citizens and VOTERS!!!
Good post, cc.

[Clara Lou]

Based on what facts? We'd like to know why you make the comment.

[conservativecorner]

A little bit more background before you sign off on Karl's grand Scheme to win over a voting block:

The Road to Aztlan
By David Orland
Boundless.org | September 22, 2003

Radical politics have been part of the game on American campuses since at least the mid-1960s but have recently taken a new and disturbing turn. At colleges and universities across the country, the Movimiento Estudiantil de Chicanos de Aztlan (The Student Movement of Aztlan Chicanos) — better known by its acronym, MEChA — is calling for the surrender of wide swaths of American territory to Mexico. Worse yet, in doing so, it has the support of university administrators, elected officials, and — thanks to the mandatory student activity fees on which the organization depends — tuition-paying students. 1
Founded in the late 1960s, MEChA has spent the last three decades indoctrinating Latino students on American campuses in the ideology of reconquista (reconquest). According to MEChA propaganda, the Southwestern United States — including California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, as well as parts of Nevada, Utah, and Colorado — sits on the territory of the ancient (and mythical) “Nation of Aztlan.” Supposedly the cradle of Aztec civilization, MEChA charges that Aztlan was unjustly seized by the United States following the Mexican-American War. Now MEChA wants this territory given back to its alleged rightful owners: the people and government of Mexico.

As a matter of fact, the American Southwest was not, as MEChA claims, “stolen” from Mexico. Following the Mexican-American War, the government of Mexico legally ceded this territory to the United States (by the Treaty of Guadalupe de Hidalgo, 1848). Nor has there ever been any place called “Aztlan” on American soil, much less a “Nation of Aztlan.” Invented 30 years ago by radical Latino activists, the Nation of Atzlan has more in common with Atlantis than with Israel.

But MEChA is not a group to let facts get in the way. There are today more than 300 MEChA unions in existence, with more than 100 in California alone. While the group is concentrated in the Southwest and along the West Coast, it can also be found farther East: It’s got chapters at MIT, Yale, Cornell, George Washington University, and Brown, among other East Coast universities. On the West Coast, where MEChA is to be found in nearly every institution of higher education, the movement is spreading so quickly that it has set its sights on the public school system, establishing high school chapters and encouraging its young supporters to participate in its numerous (and sometimes violent) protests and marches.

The revolution that MEChA plans for the American Southwest is to be a peaceful one — at least for the time being. By supporting continued high levels of Mexican immigration to the United States, MEChA hopes to achieve by sheer weight of numbers what the U.S. government long ago achieved by force of arms: the re-partition of the American Southwest. To this end, MEChA endorses a cocktail of pro-immigration policies. These include open borders, government benefits (including the right to vote and obtain drivers licenses) for non-citizens, amnesty for illegal aliens, dual citizenship, state recognition of Spanish as an official language, and racial set-asides in education and corporate hiring.

MEChA is hardly alone in promoting these policies. The National Council of La Raza and the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF), two of the better known Latino advocacy groups, also support them (as does Mexican President Vicente Fox). What distinguishes MEChA from its more mainstream counterparts, however, is its explicit and virulent calls for reconquest. While organizations like La Raza and MALDEF may harbor irredentist dreams, MEChA has made the reconquest of the American Southwest the central platform of its program.

As one of MEChA’s founding documents, El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan (The Spiritual Plan of Atzlan) puts it: “In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal ‘gringo’ invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.”

El Plan Espiritual is typical, not just for its atrocious prose, but also for its violent racial overtones. Indeed, to judge by the numerous Web sites and student publications sponsored by MEChA, life after the reconquest is going to be a pretty dreary affair. Just beneath the surface of the Marxist-inspired “union of free pueblos” imagined by MEChA visionaries runs a rich vein of race hatred and conspiratorial anti-Semitism. As an editorial addressed to “capitalist whites” in the University of California Irvine’s La Voz Mestiza (The Mestiza Voice) concludes, “You’ve spilled enough of our blood, now it’s your turn to bleed you [expletive] sub-human beasts.” Or, as one of MEChA’s many charming slogans has it, “por la Raza todo; fuera la Raza nada”: for those of our race, everything; for those outside of it, nothing.

Such statements don’t leave much to the imagination. In calling for the re-partition of the American Southwest, MEChA is not just seeking the overthrow of the American government but the overthrow of its people as well. Only in this way will it achieve “the bronze continent for the bronze people” of which it dreams. This is strong beer, indeed. As a number of recent cases indicated, however, MEChA is not just tolerated on our supposedly multicultural campuses. It is encouraged:

1) In 1995, the Voz Fronteriza, the University of California San Diego’s (UCSD) official MEChA publication, ran an editorial on the death of a Latino INS agent. Describing him as a traitor to his race who deserved to die, the editors of the Voz concluded that “all the migra [a pejorative term for the Immigration and Naturalization Service] pigs should be killed, every single one.” In the controversy that followed, UCSD Vice Chancellor Joseph W. Watson defended the publication’s right to free expression. Watson also refused to officially condemn the sentiments expressed in the Voz Fronteriza article, arguing that “the university is legally prohibited from censuring the contents of student publications.”

2) Late last year, two student reporters from the UCSD satiric publication, The Koala, attended and attempted to photograph an open meeting of MEChA. In response to complaints from MEChA, the UCSD administration charged them with violating the student code’s catch-all prohibition on “obstruction or disruption of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary procedures, or other UCSD or University activities.” Watson — the same man who, six years earlier, had defended the Voz Fronteriza’s “right to free expression” and refused to condemn the contents of the publication — issued a statement to “condemn Koala’s abuse of the constitutional guarantees of free expression and disfavor their unconscionable behavior”.

Watson then brought the staff of The Koala before an administrative court. When it appeared the court was likely to find in The Koala’s favor, the administration annulled the proceedings and ordered that the trial be re-held, this time in secret. The Koala was saved from Watson’s kangaroo court only after the Foundation of Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) stepped in, reminding the UCSD administration of the constitutional protections of due process and freedom of expression and calling media attention to the case.

3) In February of this year, The California Patriot, a publication of the University of California Berkeley College Republicans, ran an article critical of MEChA. Before the journal could be distributed, a number of people — apparently MEChA activists — broke into the Patriot’s campus offices and stole the entire print run, valued at $2000. When Patriot staff members lodged a complaint with the university police department, they received death threats. The university, meanwhile, quietly dropped the case. It continues to supply Berkeley MEChA with $20,000 in yearly student activity fees.

Something is clearly wrong with this picture. While MEChA has as much right to free expression as the next hate group, one would like to think that, left to its own devices, “el Movimiento” would wither and die. The problem is, it hasn’t been left to its own devices. In each of the cases mentioned above, MEChA has not only not been discouraged — it has in fact been accorded special protection denied other student groups. What’s more, MEChA chapters often benefit, as at Berkeley, from lavish grants of student activity fees. If MEChA has successfully spread through the American university system, it is only because university administrators and faculty — the guardians of the system — have opened all the doors.

In doing so, they no doubt comfort themselves with the idea that it is all for the greater good of “diversity.” After all, in contrast to the “gringos” against whom the organization spends most of its time railing, MEChA can claim to represent a recognized ethnic minority. In the hyper-simplified, two-tone world of contemporary academia, that’s all it takes to count as a victim. MEChA advocates the overthrow of the U.S. government, the seizure of large swaths of U.S. territory, and the expulsion (or worse) of those presently living there. For this generation of college administrators and left-wing faculty, however, MEChA is a victim group deserving protection. Such is the logic of diversity. The road to Aztlan, at any rate, will be paved with good intentions.

ENDNOTES:

1 California politicians who have never renounced their membership in the organization include Lieutenant Governor and current ex-officio UC Regent Cruz Bustamente, former State Assembly Speaker and Los Angeles mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa, State Assemblyman Gil Cadillo and State Sen. Joe Baca.

[Clara Lou]

And for the ones who don't (which I am going to assume are the majority) just HOW, can they claim benefits when they retire?
Good question.

[conservativecorner]

Are ya getting the picture yet:

The Mexican-American War, Round 2
By Don Feder
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 10, 2005


For decades now, our bad neighbor to the south has aided and abetted its impoverished citizens in their efforts to enter the United States illegally – a process that pays handsome dividends to Mexico, but results in massive trauma and social upheaval for the gringos.

The latest attack on our sovereignty is a 32-page color comic book published by Mexico’s foreign ministry and designed as a self-help manual for illegal aliens.

The publication (which should be titled "Juan and Miguel Join Mexico’s National Synchronized Swimming Team") contains helpful advice on crossing the Rio Grande (wear light clothing), traversing the desert (carry salt tablets as well as water) and preventing repatriation once the illegal arrives in the U.S. (avoid bar brawls, domestic disturbances, drunk driving, and other behavior likely to attract the attention of authorities).

"This guide is intended to give you some practical advice that could be of use if you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside your country," the handbook explains. (Emphasis added.) More than 1.5 million copies have already been distributed, inside a popular cowboy comic book – indicative of the level of literacy in Old Mexico.

To cries of outrage on this side of the border, the Mexican government responds that it isn’t encouraging illegal immigration (Why, they wouldn’t dream of it!) but is merely trying to protect its itinerant citizens.

"Last year, over 300 Mexicans died in their attempt to enter the United States (illegally-DF) in search of a job, and the government has the obligation to avoid that," says Geronimo Gutierrez, undersecretary of North American Affairs for Mexico’s foreign ministry.

Well, if Gutierrez and the government of Vincente Fox (who calls border-jumpers "heroes") is really interested in preventing the deaths of Juan and Miguel, it has only to describe, in graphic detail, what it’s like to die of dehydration in the desert – illustrated with appropriate photographs – instead of facilitating their criminality.

Or, it could tell its citizens how to apply for a visa. (Wouldn’t that be a novelty: Mexicans who enter the U.S. legally.) Instead, it encourages its citizens to break our laws and undermine our national identity.

Even the friends of a porous border understand that the move is a PR disaster.

A January 5th editorial in the pro-immigration Arizona Republic observes that the comic book will make it harder for the Bush administration and its congressional allies – in this case, including Edward Kennedy – to sell another amnesty or a "guest-worker" program to the American people.

"Mexico’s booklet on how to sneak into the United States…raises serious doubts about whether Mexico will ever help curb illegal migration – even if the United States creates a legal mechanism for large numbers of workers to obtain temporary work visas," the editorial warns.

Let any lingering doubts be dispelled! Short to stationing troops on the border to provide cover fire for infiltrators, the Mexican government will do everything in its power to facilitate illegal immigration.

The heirs of Montezuma and Cortez have a continent to gain and nothing to lose.

Once in the U.S., the "migrant" goes from wages of $5 per day, to $60 a day for manual labor. Mexico gets to export its surplus population. And the nation receives $15 billion annually in remittances. This exceeds its combined income from tourism and foreign investments, and is second only to oil exports as a source of national wealth.

Mexicans here constitute a growing constituency for whatever Mexico City wants from Washington -- due to the latest fashion in political pandering: courting the Hispanic vote – and a fifth column which could eventually wrest California, Texas and the Southwest away from America (La Reconquista).

And there’s never a penalty. After wiping the spittle from our face, we continue to shower benefits (like NAFTA) on those who mock our laws and undermine our sovereignty, Mexico City’s modern-day Pancho Villas.

Within days of his re-election, the president dispatched Secretary of State Colin Powell to Mexico to re-start talks on the size and scope of the latest proposed amnesty (which, of course, isn’t being called an amnesty) and guest-worker program.

Illegal immigration doesn’t work quite as well for the importing nation as it does for the exporters, despite the pleading of Fortune 500 Republicans about the "jobs Americans won’t take." In reality, illegal immigration artificially depresses the wages of certain jobs, making them unattractive to Americans.

Cheap immigrant labor is really quite dear. According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform, illegal aliens cost the state of California $10.5 billion annually, or almost $1,200 per year for every native-born family.

Included in that cost is $7.7 billion to educate the children of illegal aliens (who now constitute 15 percent of the state’s K-12 enrollment), $1.4 billion for health care for illegals and their families and the same amount to incarcerate alien lawbreakers.

In 1980, fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens were held in our state or federal prisons. That number grew to more than 68,000 in 1999. In Orange County, California alone, there are 275 street gangs, with 17,000 members – 98 percent Mexican or Asian. Not only do our uninvited guests get to rob, rape, murder, and deal drugs, but we get to pay for the incarceration of those who are caught.

Restaurants, landscapers, contractors and meatpacking plants get labor at below-market prices. The taxpayer gets the bill. As Milton Friedman admonishes us, there is no such thing as a free lunch, especially when it comes to immigration.

But that’s not the worst of it.

Besides crime, poverty and increased social costs, those who make the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities in the Golden Pinata – 300,000 a year, net – bring with them language fragmentation, alienation, and a loss of national identity.

The number of Spanish-speakers in the U.S. is doubling every decade. We now have bilingual education, bilingual ballots, and bilingual tests for drivers’ licenses.
Almost anywhere in the country, when you pull up to a drive-through ATM, you’re given the option of proceeding in English or Spanish. Airport signs in both languages are common. (Can bilingual street signs be far behind?) Language-pandering has become a growth industry. Government, education and business all do their part to promote language ghetto-ization – to make it easy for Spanish-speakers to avoid learning English, and still make a living, get an education, raise a family and enjoy the rights of citizenship here.
In 1999, the town of El Cenizo, Texas, (south of Laredo) declared Spanish its official language and put out the welcome mat for illegal aliens, promising to protect them from the INS.
Mexico’s total population is around 100 million. There are now 25.5 million post-1963 Mexican immigrants and their descendants in the United States. They constitute a nation within a nation: two-thirds the population of our largest state, belligerent and growing.
Mexico has 54 consular offices in the United States, more than one for each state. They serve as support units for the alien invasion and brazenly interfere in American politics, from lobbying against official English measures (a few years ago, the consul general in Atlanta called the reform "racist"; this from the representative of a nation whose Congress is whiter than the Newport Yacht Club) to campaigning for new amnesties.
To encourage Mexican nationals here to maintain their old identity and still influence our politics, Mexico has adopted a dual citizenship law.
There’s hardly a public school in California that doesn’t have a Cinquo De Mayo essay contest. (Students in the state’s school system know more about a holiday celebrating one of Mexico’s rare military victories than the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving.) The birthday of labor agitator Cesar Chavez (March 31st) is a California state holiday.
The militant, separatist Chicano Student Movement of Atzlan (MEChA) has chapters at college and high school campuses across California and the Southwest. Its symbol is an eagle clutching a machete in one claw and a stick of dynamite in the other. It’s motto: "Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada." (For the Race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.) It is radical, racist, anti-Semitic, and works toward regional secession and the expulsion of non-Chicanos from the future nation of Atzlan. How do you say "Nazi" in Spanish?
Antonio Villaraigosa the former Speaker of the California State Assembly who came close to being elected mayor of Los Angeles in 2001, and is running again this year, headed the UCLA chapter of MEChA in his college days. As a candidate in 2001, Villaraigosa not only refused to disassociate himself from this brown fascist ideology, but said he was proud of the group.
California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante is another MEChA alumnus (Fresno State). As a candidate for governor in last year’s recall election, Bustamante supported then-Governor Gray Davis’ bill for driver’s licenses for illegal aliens and wanted to give illegals in-state tuition at California colleges and universities. When it comes to public benefits, Bustamante said no distinction should be made between those here legally and illegally.
In a 1997 speech to the National Council of La Raza, former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo said he "proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this." In case you missed it, the Mexican government is saying its sovereignty extends to wherever Mexicans reside.
Speaking in Nogales, in 2001, Mexican President Fox hailed illegal alien in these words: "We want to salute these heroes, these kids leaving their homes, their communities, leaving with tears in their eyes, saying goodbye to their families, to set out on a difficult, sometimes painful search for a job, an opportunity they can’t find at home." Americans, too, have tears in their eyes when they survey the devastation Fox’s brave opportunity-seekers have wrought.
Back in 1982, when the deluge was still a trickle, the Mexican newspaper Excelsior commented, "The American Southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot."
Speaking at a symposium on the 150th anniversary of The Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago (which ended the Mexican-American War and transferred California and the Southwest to the United States), Jose Angel Pescador Osuna – then Mexico’s consul general in Los Angeles – remarked, "Even though I am saying this part serious and part joking, I think we are practicing la Reconquista in California." No kidding!
Here are a few more choice quotes from Reconquistadors: "Remember, 187 (the proposition denying public benefits to illegal aliens) was the last gasp of white power in California" (Art Torres, chairman of the Democratic Party in California), "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn’t like it should leave" (Mario Obledo, California Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Jerry Brown, awarded the Presidential Freedom Medal by Bill Clinton), "We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country….I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, ‘I’m going to go out there and vote, because I want to pay them back.’" Have you guessed who "they" are, and how these new voters intend to pay us back, gringo?
David Kennedy, who is the Donald J. McLauchlan Professor of American History at Stanford University. warns, "The possibility looms that in the next generation or so, we will see a kind of Chicano Quebec take shape in the American Southwest."
Antonio Navarro, a professor at the University of California at Riverside and prominent Chicano activist, exults, "If in the next 50 years our people are subordinated, powerless, exploited and impoverished, then I will say to you that there are all kinds of possibilities for movements to develop like the ones that we’ve witnessed in the last few years all over the world, from Yugoslavia to Chechnya." Would that include open guerrilla warfare and Chicano suicide bombers?
Are you scared yet? Do you now understand that Mexico’s comic book/handbook for illegals is one more salvo in its undeclared war on America? (Call it the Mexican-American War, Round 2.)

All of which is not to say that Mexican-Americans (not those who call themselves Chicanos, but Americans of Mexican ancestry) can’t be good citizens. There are Mexican-Americans whose families have been here for generations. More than 30 percent of Mexican-American voters in California supported Proposition 187. Mexican-Americans have bled for our flag and died defending our borders.

Still, immigration from Mexico poses a special problem. Roughly one million better-job-seekers cross the rivers and deserts along the 2,000-mile Mexican-American border each year.

Between January 4 and October 1 of last year, the number of infiltrators apprehended jumped 13 percent (to 194,576). "This is clearly tied in with President Bush’s call after his re-election to revive the guest-worker program," observes T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, representing 10,000 Border Patrol agents. "Migrants are rushing over the border to take advantage of that."

Build it, and they will come.

From Washington to Sacramento, we’re building it – with amnesties, welfare benefits, drivers licenses for illegals, lax immigration enforcement and language pandering). And they are coming – a hungry, ravaging, grudge-bearing alien horde. If it continues, and our national house is still standing a few decades hence, it will be a miracle.

[DustyMoment]

This is just more of the Bush Administration legitimizing the actions of criminals!!! As a Baby Boomer, I don't expect to get back in SS anything approaching what I paid into it (given its proximity to bankruptcy - Thank you Congress!), but now it appears that there won't be enough for me to draw even a fraction on the dollar of what I paid in if this goes through.

[krunkygirl]

save and bump

[taxed2death]

"It's very smart strategy to try to influence a huge voting block. What would you have Rove rather do, tell them to go to hell? Rove has been extremely successful at winning campaigns because he does think like a perturbed little child."

La raza = "The race" = the Klan with a Tan.

Are you ok with Rove meeting with Calypso Louie?

How about David Duke?

[HarleyLady27]

OH so, Social Secuity is going to run out in say 10 years, and everyone has to put in their own money in their own accounts...and we have enough monies there to support some stupid illigal from south of the border because he is a mexican national????

WHOOOOOOAAAAAA....hold it there Mr. President....if you want to donate your millions to the mexican nationals, then you just go ahead and do so, but don't you be giving those dirty idiots any of the monies I put in there for my kids or for anyone else as a matter of fact....sure glad your not running this year....I WOULD NOT VOTE FOR YOU....

And IF you love them so much, then move your Crawford ranch over South of the Border and stay there....

[visualops]

Really, I agree, the idea that this will have negligible impact is ludicrous. Just as an example, my co-worker has a wife and 7 kids in Mexico. If he is/became eligible for SS benefits, would not his family qualify for survivor benefits? Now, in the name of "fairness" I can see that anyone who paid into SS would feel at least entitled to what they put in. However, when someone is supporting their family on considerably less than it would cost them if they all lived here, plus is able to take advantage of free services here (he goes to a free clinic and recently had a $6000 hospital bill get disappeared for him), I get a bit angry that they may be able to retire to Mexico and draw a SS retirement check. An illegal alien I don't feel is entitled to anything, regardless if they paid taxes or paid into SS. You can't selectively chose which laws and regulations you going to obey/enforce.

[AmericaUnited]

I'll take every single vote from card-carrying LaRaza members in November. Every single one! Somehow you think that them voting for GOP candidates is a vote for their agenda. You have it ass backwards.

[AmericaUnited]

I'll take every single vote from card-carrying LaRaza members in November. Every single one! Somehow you think that them voting for GOP candidates is a vote for their agenda. You have it ass backwards.</p>

[finallyatexan]

I would like to tell you a little story that really makes my blood boil over this issue - my sister started working at around age 15. She took an early retirement from GM after working there 32 years. She died 3 weeks ago at the age of 60 - two years shy of receiving SS benefits. All this money that she contributed for all those years does not go to her family - the government gets it all - now I read that this money that she worked hard for will probably go to illegals in this country. This kind of crap has to stop !!!

[conservativecorner]

It's known as pandering. I think of it as pimping for votes because there is no right or wrong. As a Conservative, I will stand with the Constitution and rule of law while some parts of the Republican Party hang out on the corner working the streets for illegal votes and the Shamnesty Plan.

[VOA]

"Can someone tell Rove that speaking at a La Raza Event may not be in the
interests of the United States of America. PATHETIC!!"

Oh, it gets even better (worse).
Scroll down to July 10 on the schedule and find Senator Brownback amongst
the invited speakers.

http://www.nclr.org/section/events/conference/event_information/speakertalent/

Folks who've never spent much time in Southern California need to get a clue.
We put an end to racialists that hope to loot the rest of the world
at the end of WWII.
They came for the property of one group in Germany in the 1930s...
now another group is coming for the property of LEGAL US citizens.

[1035rep]

Fact Sheet

Social Security

UNITED STATES/MEXICO TOTALIZATION AGREEMENT  

(Aquí en Español)
 

Totalization

• Since the late 1970’s, the U.S. has established international social security agreements that coordinate the U.S. Social Security program with the comparable programs of other countries.

• These international social security agreements are called “totalization agreements” and have two main purposes:

  • Eliminate dual social security taxation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay social security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. As a result of existing totalization agreements, U.S. workers and employers currently are saving about $800 million annually in foreign taxes they do not have to pay.

  • Help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the U.S. and another country, but who have not worked long enough in one or both countries to qualify for social security benefits. With totalization, workers are allowed to combine work credits from both countries to become eligible for benefits. The benefit amount paid is proportional to the amount of credits earned in the paying country.

An agreement with Mexico

• An agreement with Mexico would save U.S. workers and their employers about $140 million in Mexican social security and health insurance taxes over the first 5 years of the agreement.

• An agreement would also fill the gaps in benefit protection for U.S. workers who have worked in both countries, but not long enough in one or both countries to qualify for benefits.

• Mexico is the second largest trading partner with the U.S. Agreements are already in effect with Canada, the largest trading partner with the U.S., and 19 other countries.

• With Mexico, the U.S. now has signed agreements with eight of its top ten trading partners. Many of these agreements have been in effect for nearly two decades. The two exceptions are China and Taiwan. By law, the U.S. could not enter into agreements with these two countries because they do not have generally applicable social security systems that pay periodic benefits or the actuarial equivalent.

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico-alt.htm

[KarlInOhio]

Did you know:

The United States currently has Social Security agreements with Canada, Chile, South Korea, Australia and most of Western Europe."

The differences between this deal with Europe and with Mexico are that

1. The numbers of employees covered by European agreements are much smaller relative to the number of Mexicans involved. I don't think there are 15+ million Europeans potentially covered.

2. The Europeans' wages are much closer to US wages. There isn't a great windfall to be covered by the US plan instead of the European plans.

3. The number of Europeans covered by the US plans is probably much closer to the number of Americans covered by European plans. If we have 100,000 Brits and the Brits have 80,000 Americans, then numbers just about balance out and neither country is carrying much of a load for the other one. The Mexican government will not have to deal with millions of Americans on their retirement system.

[Liz]

EXCERPT: Some Immigrants Are Offering Social Security Numbers for Rent

NY Times | 6/7/2005 | EDUARDO PORTER

Gerardo Luviano is looking for somebody to rent his Social Security number. Mr. Luviano, 39, obtained legal residence in the United States almost 20 years ago. But these days, back in Mexico....he is looking for an illegal immigrant in the United States to use it for him - providing a little cash along the way. "My brother in California has a friend who has crops and has people that need one."

Mr. Luviano's pending transaction is merely a blip in a shadowy yet vibrant underground market....undetected by American authorities, operating below the radar in immigrant communities from coast to coast, a secondary trade in identities has emerged straddling both sides of the Mexico-United States border.

Illegal immigrant workers usually earn so little they are owed an income tax refund...........The illegal immigrant "working the number" will usually pay the real owner by sharing the tax refund. Since legal American residents can lose their green cards if they stay outside the country too long, it is useful to have somebody working under their identity north of the border.

"Sometimes the one who is working doesn't mind giving all the refund, he just wants to work," said Fernando Rosales, who runs a shop preparing income taxes in the immigrant-rich enclave of Huntington Park, Calif.

The income tax "refund" is almost certainly generated by Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) fraud, which as a "legal resident" the number renter would qualify to receive, especially if they have have or claim children. The EITC is a "refundable tax credit, which means the IRS will pay it out even if no taxes have been withheld or paid in. So the IRS gives filers who claim the EITC "refunds," even if they have had no taxes withheld.

These number renters can claim up to $4,400 for the 2005 tax year in EITC "refunds," most of the number renters probably claim this maximum refund. The Additional Child Tax Credit is another "refundable" credit which is no doubt routinely claimed by these renters.

For 2005, if the number renter claimed $14,400 in wage income, and three children, between the EITC and the Additional Child Tax Credit the renter would, without having any taxes withheld from wages, receive a tax "refund" of $4,898, plus have $892 credited to Social Security; in addition to the potential of thousands of dollars in California unemployment compensation.

[1035rep]

Thanks for the link. 

[DustyMoment]

All this money that she contributed for all those years does not go to her family - the government gets it all

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister. You and the rest of your family have my sympathies. The issue with SS is an old one and is exactly what Bush was trying to resolve by getting people to own at least 2% of their SS. Unfortunately, most Americans are too dumb to understand that by privatizing as much as 2% of their SS, they would own it and, if they died before their benefit expired, their heirs would get the remainder. Hopefully, all of this will, one day, force a paradigm change in the way that SS is handled.

[ClaireSolt]

Here are two real situations that I know about. There is an elderly Mexican American living here instead of on land he owns in Mexico, because when he retired to Mexico, Social Security found out and cut his benefits in half. Also, I know many Canadian snowbirds who own homes here. However, their national health insurance is no good here and is cancelled unless they spend at least six months a year in Canada.

With average benefits of $1000/mo the givernments should stop making policies that keep us living in expensive areas and let us find the cheapest places to retire.

The boomer who complains he will not get his money back is completely wrong. Most boomers will claim about 10X what they paid in. Regarding the woman who died, what part of insurance don't you understand? Are you also trying to get a refund on the money she paid for car insurance now that she is no longer driving?

[VOA]

for the folks that have (sometimes reasonable) skepticism about NewsMax reports...
here's a link to TREA:
http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/100207.asp

and a link to their front-page with news of the totalization:
http://www.tscl.org/index.asp

Looks legit enough to me. But if anyone has other thoughts on TREA, let's hear 'em.
(that's a friendly suggestion)

[A.Hun]

Apparently Newscrap is fanning the illegal immigration fire again.....

How exactly do you hide an agreement that is going to be presented to Congress and has to be approved by them?

On top of that, just from a cursory read, you would have to be in the US longer than Mexico for it to apply, you would have to have valid SS# and valid documentation in general proving that you have paid SS. Apparently, under existing law, any legal Mexican worker is already covered under US SS law.

How about this link that explains the same program that we have with so many other nations, explaining that the benefit is primarily for our citizens and employers working in foreign nations?

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/agreements_overview.html

[XenaLee]

How the hell are Mex illegals going to 'pay into social security', when they're using fake or 'borrowed' social security numbers? This is insanity!

[Eastbound]

"If the goal is to merge the US, Mexico, and Canada, at least have the cajones to tell the American people --- and give them the opportunity to vote on this, rather than doing it behind our backs, in secret agreements."

Not behind our backs, TomGuy. More like so far ahead of us we can't see 'em. Giving it all away.

[conservativecorner]

Thanks much for addressing the differences BUMP! Also, to unite our vastly different economies economics demands that our standard of living will go down while theirs goes up. It's happening today to a lesser extent, but if allowed to proceed unencumbered, will destroy our culture and way of life forever.

[VOA]

The issue with SS is an old one and is exactly what Bush was trying to
resolve by getting people to own at least 2% of their SS.

Seems like Dubya left out one great selling-point for that plan...
"...and by the way, I'm letting MILLIONS of illegal citizens in on
the Social Security gravy train, so y'all should take advantage of at
least claiming a bit for yourself!".

And it would have been nice if he'd made his Amnesty plan for
millions of identity theives public as well.

[staytrue]

Have they paid into social security? If so, they are still losing money like all the rest of us.

True. But think of how much more money we can get/steal if we require them to pay in and never collect.

But I think you are missing the main point in this. That is we want to have mexico raise kids. Then when they are adults, they work here. Then they go home to mexico to retire. That is the plan. That is high efficiency economics. What we need to do is ship some of our poor elderly and retired over there or to thailand or somewhere where it is a lot cheaper to care for them. This may be the eventual bail out for the ssi system.

[sheana]

Also, I read somewhere else that the Mexicans don't have to work as many quarters to draw the same benefits as a citizen. They always give them an advantage don't they?

[conservativecorner]

I don't know if you have this site, but if not, it's a great site for background information on the various leftist groups out there. It's associated with Frontpage Magazine headed by David Horowitz. Discover The Networks