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Polish MEP praising General Franco sparks parliament clash
EUobserver ^
| 04.07.2006
| Kubosova
Posted on 07/04/2006 9:21:04 AM PDT by Lukasz
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Im quite ignorant about general Francos activity in Spain, I admit
Maybe some Spanish Freeper would explain us what Spanish rightists and conservatives think about Franco? Positives and negatives of his rule.
1
posted on
07/04/2006 9:21:07 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
I too am curious about this subject. There aren't many decent bios about the Generalissimo out there. All I know is that Franco's gravesite is stunning. I've heard, however, that the Socialist PM is planning to have it turned into a memorial to the Civil War.
2
posted on
07/04/2006 9:27:17 AM PDT
by
Cyclopean Squid
(Being That Guy so you don't have to.)
To: Cyclopean Squid
To: Lukasz
"We observe deep sorrow some attempts for a historical revisionism which tends to criticise all that is traditional and catholic while portray in a positive light all that is lay and socialist." "Let's not forget that Nazism in Germany and fascism in Italy were also spiced up by socialist and atheist taste," Mr Giertych added.
The Franco remarks can be debated, but on this he is right.
4
posted on
07/04/2006 9:34:57 AM PDT
by
icwhatudo
(The rino borg...is resistance futile?)
To: Lukasz
Well, Solzhenitsyn once said that Spain ought to be grateful and counting itself happy for having had Franco. He on his own skin experienced the alternative, and found it to be much worse. Maciej Marian Giertych is absolutely right.
5
posted on
07/04/2006 9:36:40 AM PDT
by
GSlob
To: Lukasz
Franco came to power during the civil war in Spain in 1936; he restored order to a chaotic situation. The Republican side, which was the government side led by the socialists, lost to Franco due to his superior military tactics and their own squabbling and gross incompetence. The Socialist cause became a rallying cry for the Left and a cause clebre. Many intellectuals fought in Spain including such famous ones as Eric Blair (George Orwell) and Ernest Hemingway. The communist fought in Spain as well and Stalin's forces fought a civil war within the civil war to eliminate the Trotskytes. The Civil War was a horribly bloody affair, where the Nazis tried out their aerial warfare on on the town of Guernica, which Pablo Picasso depicted in a famous painting. Despite Nazi assistance, once in power Franco snubbed Hitler in WW II and steered Spain in a neutral position. Franco was a traditional autocrat who place order ahead of liberty, was anticommunist, and traditional. He appealed to traditionalist within Spain. But he had little in common with today's American conservative; he probably saved Spain from the horror Cuba has experienced under Casto's communist dictatorship, which is the direction many feared Spain was headed under the Republic.
6
posted on
07/04/2006 9:37:33 AM PDT
by
elhombrelibre
(The MSM is "the propaganda arm of our enemies." - Jack Kelly)
To: Cyclopean Squid
I was at the Valley of the Fallen. It is a beautiful place. The socialists can do what they want, but the fact is, they lost the civil war. If the left had won, another red domino would have collapsed somewhere between 1989 and 1991.
7
posted on
07/04/2006 9:39:09 AM PDT
by
AdvisorB
(Bomb Hamistan back to the Stone Age paleos celebrated the 911 atrocities, now its their turn to die.)
To: icwhatudo
"Let's not forget that Nazism in Germany and fascism in Italy were also spiced up by socialist and atheist taste," Mr Giertych added. I would say, that not honoring Franco but this statement made socialist leader so angry.
8
posted on
07/04/2006 9:39:53 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
Guernica by Picasso is a good visual of the horrors inflicted on an innocent town by Franco and the Nazis just to see what effect bombing had on civilians. Picasso's mural was created in black and white to give it a newspaper printing effect and remove the "glamour" of color from the subject. Very disturbing painting, more so than his usual work.
9
posted on
07/04/2006 9:41:50 AM PDT
by
xander
To: Mr.Smorch
Thanks, I didn't know that was what it was called. I found another magnificent photo of the wikipedia entry:
10
posted on
07/04/2006 9:43:15 AM PDT
by
Cyclopean Squid
(Being That Guy so you don't have to.)
To: GSlob
Well, Solzhenitsyn once said that Spain ought to be grateful and counting itself happy for having had Franco. He on his own skin experienced the alternative, and found it to be much worse. Maciej Marian Giertych is absolutely right. Amen
11
posted on
07/04/2006 9:43:57 AM PDT
by
A. Pole
(Rudyard Kipling: "Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet")
To: elhombrelibre
Thank for compressed story, make sense.
12
posted on
07/04/2006 9:44:28 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: A. Pole
Well, many others could have said the same. Ideally one needs to find a person with a direct experience of both frankist Spain and stalinist USSR, both on receiving end. Given the numbers of people involved, the existence of such a person is more than likely.
13
posted on
07/04/2006 9:48:40 AM PDT
by
GSlob
To: Lukasz
If Aristotle and the whole ancient world are correct the end of Democracy is Tyranny. Watching political events over the decades I tend to agree with this understanding of human nature.
Let me define "tyranny" as when one person is the final judge of right and wrong, life and death, freedom and imprisonment. I see national politicians these days who would relish signing death warrants containing hundreds, thousands, of names. Administrative capital punishment without check.
If I have to decide between Franco and the Comintern then I will stand with George Orwell.
14
posted on
07/04/2006 9:49:03 AM PDT
by
Iris7
(Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
To: Lukasz
I'm very glad Franco effectively blocked Hitler from attacking Gibraltar. It would have very tough fighting the war in the desert without that rock.
As for the Spanish Civil War itself - Orwell served on the communist side, and the experience led to his disillusionment with the communist Brave New World.
To: Iris7
Perhaps I will be misunderstood. Eric Blair, "George Orwell", fought with the Catalan anarcho-syndicalist faction. After real experience on the ground, wise and tired, he wrote
1984.
Direct experience of the Left in action opens closed eyes. Solzhenitsyn, Koestler, the entire Polish nation, and many others. My own.
16
posted on
07/04/2006 10:02:36 AM PDT
by
Iris7
(Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
To: Lukasz
Franco may not be dead after all. He may now be planning a political comeback.
17
posted on
07/04/2006 10:03:19 AM PDT
by
DaGman
To: Cyclopean Squid
In spanish it's Valle de los Caidos. Francisco Franco is buried inside, along with all the luminaries of the phalangist movemiento. It was built by the leftist/socialist/communist prisoners captured during and after the Spanish Civil War. If the left had succeeded, it would have been dedicated to the Spanish "stalin and no doubt constructed by bourgeoise, military, clerical, and royalist forces.
18
posted on
07/04/2006 10:05:50 AM PDT
by
AdvisorB
(Bomb Hamistan back to the Stone Age paleos celebrated the 911 atrocities, now its their turn to die.)
To: Lukasz
Well, while the Germans were persecuting and killing the Jews, Franco was protecting them from the Germans.
19
posted on
07/04/2006 10:07:47 AM PDT
by
sobieski
To: GSlob
There is a Polish Jewish family who escaped Warsaw when the war broke out and made their way to Spain. They chose to stay there until Communism ended, and returned to reopen their restaurant on the Old Town Square once freedome returned. They had the choice of Franco or Stalinism, and chose Franco.
20
posted on
07/04/2006 10:10:08 AM PDT
by
sobieski
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