Posted on 07/07/2006 11:00:02 AM PDT by 18yearold
I am sorry for my first thread to be a vanity. I have lurked so long here and have enjoyed the give and take. I just graduated HS, and I know I am not as learned as most of you out there but I have a question......
Why not just open up to NK? The worst possible thing that douche would want is open borders. Let ustrade, and our allies trade with NK and then the people there will see what the truth is and rise up. I knoe this seems over simplified, but this nut in NK scares me.
IBTZ?
Hmmmm.......
Nice thought, if the douche that ran NK wasnt a maniacal tyrant that actually wants closed borders....He's posturing for concessions so he can keep his little tyranny before the people rise up and hang him do to starvation...
Open borders? Three letters: DMZ
Okay. One minor problem: What do they have that we want?
Go and smack your high school English teacher for all of us.
It's not us, it's them. WE are open, they are not. You can travel to SK but a NK cannot under pain of DEATH!..............
I know it seems oversimple. But my dad was telling me what preceeded the fall of the Berlin Wall and told me how that once the borders and countries surrounding East Germany opened, that it was like a dam bursting.
LOL!
Maybe history teacher?
susie
First of all, opening borders with a communist country doesn't really work. They don't have capitalist-style banking, laws that would allow trade to work well, and any number of other factors.
Secondly, the concept that has worked well in the past is to isolate communists. If they were a functional system, they would prosper in our absence -- as we prosper in their absence.
Thirdly, this guy's not well. He will continue to be unpredictable, and I suspect before he dies he will use a nuke in anger.
You would have agents of NK all over SK. Before long SK would topple. You forget the Chicoms are behind NK.
I think we are still technically at war with NK. We signed an armistice but never a final peace treaty.
QUESTION: Would these dong missiles be more dangerous if they were surrounded in silos?
Kill Ronery Kim first.
Open borders and free trade require two willing participants and Kim Jung-Il, for the reasons you pointed out, does not want open borders and free trade.
"Let ustrade, and our allies trade with NK and then the people there will see what the truth is and rise up."
A. They have nothing to trade due to their adherence to a communist system.
B. Their media is COMPLETELY controlled, therefor the people will not "see what the truth is".
C. They possess not the means to rise up, i.e. arms, a theology of freedom, etc.
D. We have tried peaceful coexistence with the COMMUNIST regimes before. We have provided them food as their citizens starved, even to the USSR during the height of the cold war!
The bottom line is they are COMMUNISTS, and therefor not reasonable or sane. Dealing with them as if they are reasonable is insane. Get it?
35 years ago, I felt this way about Russia. Then I saw the pitiful quality in their cars and cameras. The NK missile failed in its launch. I think the threat is overblown hype.
Good Lord, did you pass history? Then again it depends on who was teaching or grading.
Sounds to me like either you weren't taught, or you didn't learn.
Anyway, if you get a chance, compare and contrast how the Clinton administration dealt with NK with the Bush administration. See if "cooperation" and "agreements" got anythign done in the past.
History will judge what this president does in these critical days. It will be Reaganesque.
Russia made cameras ?
Just off the cuff my thoughts are they are first choking off the life blood and giving specific consequences for bad behavior, and or know that if they did not sanction the 'Il' would take it all anyway and still use the same manipulative tactics with the general population (starvation etc) to control them. Lastly, it is a sickness and they want to contain it.
Think for a moment if the 'Il' spread his tactics to S. Korea and just ended up widening his territory of repression, as opposed to the opposite happening. At least right now the problem is isolated and has clearly defined borders (minus of course the behind the scenes support of the Chinese--but even this is a known factor). Thus is it easier to contain the threat.
Sometimes the unknown is worst than the known and this is sometimes why we see, in my opinion, small steps taken with countries such as NK unless they become a huge threat, versus just wiping out the leaders. Look at all the energy, time and money it is taking to rebuild Iraq. Can you imagine this happening in at least two to three other countries such as Iran and NK at the same time? It would leave the US over taxed and possibly unable to defend itself from even larger threats such as an attack from China/Russia etc. JMO. Food for thought. Thanks for the post.
"35 years ago, I felt this way about Russia. Then I saw the pitiful quality in their cars and cameras."
Yeah, but their ideology, guns, tanks, RPG's, and mines work well enough to have killed millions in all corners of the world in the last 50+ years.
[Go and smack your high school English teacher for all of us.]
[[And your history teacher.]]
Might as well throw the economics teacher in there as well.
Unfortunately, things are radically different there. Information is strictly controlled as are goods. Anything decent that they imported from us would only find its way to the most trusted party members.
Plus, you have to consider that the people there have been brainwashed for nearly 50 years.
Thanks for the post though, and I hope you have a thick skin. This is the usual welcome to Free Republic, so don't be too discouraged.
Gum
I'd like to know what is the measurement for 'well-informed' is. Questions are a sign of intelligence. Get over your big self.
You've bound to have learned more on FR than in your public high skewl.
N.K. is a closed society if they didn't teach you that.
...far better to control and starve your people.
LOL so true!
Early on I was actually called a LIBERAL here on FR!
;)
susie
Very silly. You'd have better understanding if you just read the wikipedia entry on North Korea. That's saying something.
Kim doesn't want open borders. He keeps very tight control over his country and everthing his people see or hear. He limits and re-labels foreign aid for his starving people to keep them from realizing what a loser their country is.
North Korea is so bad that they flee to the PRC!
Might be a good idea to bomb North Korea with web-enabled cell phones, but then we'd have to figure how to get them in range of cell towers...
Last I checked, we were still under an Armistice of a declared War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Stalemate_.28July.2C_1951.29
We have no Peace Treaties, or any other agreements with NK,
and trade with a declared enemy would probably be a bad idea...
I think there is some misunderstanding here! The open borders of Eastern Europe were opened by the Communists, not the West. The Communists had, up until the end, kept everyone effectively in prison by closing the borders. Just prior to the fall of the Berlin wall, massive migrations from the Czechs were allowed and it became very clear that lots of people would leave if they could. This was a relaxation of the closed borders by the Communists. They actually had automated machine guns on some fences to keep people IN.
Please do not confuse this with the "open borders" and "free trade" problem we face with Mexico. It is totally different.
Closed borders is what Kim wants, not us.
Kim is trying to get us to pay extortion money for him not to pursue the acquisition of nuclear weapons and delivery systems.
We should not pay. The Clinton administration agreed to such an arrangement in the 1990's and it only resulted in resources for Kim's regime and time.
I was stationed in the Army when the iron curtain fell. When I got there they were still shooting at people trying to get into W. Ger. Communism fell when the people overthrew their tyrant leadership. This won't work for N. Korea because: 1. Asian mindset is different from European mindset 2. The leader is a megalomaniac who is systematically starving his population. 3. The population has no means to systematically fight back even if they could. 4. Similar thing was attempted with Hitler, and you SHOULD know where that got us. There are EVIL people in the world and they must be dealt with accordingly. Kimmy is one of them
What kind of goods will lil kim export to us? Counterfeit money, drugs, weapons? No thanks.
I don't think anything positive will come to pass with NK as long as the Il-meister is running the show. I pray that his regime will simply collapse soon with the help of his starving masses and/or disaffected military.
ROFLMAO@ Il Dork Dong.
Yep ... the Soviets made 'consumer-grade' cameras, usually copies of Leica or various Japanese models. "Brand" names included "Zenit" and "Zorki". The optical quality was never up to Japanese (much less German) standards, nor was fit and finish, but mechanically they tended to be simple and robust. And heavy, and clunky ...
Why give the donut faced jerk a second thought? He should be treated like a brat.
We have subs that can reload their tubes with conventional warheads in an hour, target and destroy the launch sites and send a clear message to Il that we will not tolerate this sort of behavior.
I think the world would back us up on such a move.
To hell with diplomacy.
the best way to defuse this situation is to get countries that supply NK with aid/$$/food to stop.... USA, Japan, China, S. Korea, Russia... collapse the regime from within.
Top 50 IB4Z?
If Kim wanted to "open up" as you say, he has the example of China he could follow, but then, unlike the Chinese, he would have to explain why he would still need to have the police state that South Korea does not have. He cannot "open up" and keep the massive degree of difference between the North and the South hidden from his people.
He is wishing that he could create millions like you, in the U.S. and in South Korea, who will try to buy him off and pray he will reform (like China has not).
In other words, he wants financial and energy assistance, and keep his dictatorship in place too. Well, he promised those kind of things to Clinton and to South Korea in the 1990s. They helped him get "peaceful" nuclear energy, fuel oil and food and...............................................
he went behind everyone's back and did the missile and nuclear weapons developments in secret, while lieing to us, South Korea and the IAEA that he was only working on the "peaceful" projects we had agreed to.
Quit being so scared.
Is he dangerous? Yes. Can he in any final analysis be a severe military threat to us? No, not in any final analysis. He knows that anything he thinks he can do would be a pin-prick and result in North Korea looking like a single molten peace of rock. He's crazy, not stupid.
He is counting on you and millions like you pushing everyone else to give in and buy him off.
It's nothing but geo-political blackmail attempting to fund the continuation of his murderous regime, with your economic help. The Soviets tried it and Reagan gave them a U.S. military buildup with every conceivable military advancement we could make. The Soviets went banckrupt and imploded and we never had to fire one missile.
Did Hell freeze over? Is it snowing out right now? I can't beleive that you made a post free of sarcasm! ;-)
Quit it, I don't like series Laz!
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