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Gone to Pot?
ScienceNOW Daily News ^ | 6 July 2006 | Mary Beckman

Posted on 07/08/2006 2:48:58 AM PDT by neverdem

In what could be a coup for antimarijuana forces, new research shows that rats exposed to pot's active ingredient at an early age devour more heroin as adults than rats without early exposure. Some experts, though, say the jury is still out on whether the finding is enough to officially label marijuana a "gateway" drug.

According to statistics from the National Institute on Drug Abuse, most adults who take illicit drugs start doing so in their early teens. In addition, the earlier kids start smoking dope, the more likely they are to use harder drugs later on. For example, of people who first puffed weed before age 15, 62% went on to use cocaine and 9% to use heroin. But of those who started smoking pot after age of 20, only 16% moved onto cocaine and 1% to heroin. Some researchers think this means that marijuana is a gateway drug--one that leads to harder drug use. Others point out that such a claim is hard to prove because the same factors that lead people to use marijuana in the first place might also lead them to use other drugs.

To see through the smoke, neuroscientist Yasmin Hurd, now at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, gave 4-week-old rats THC, the most common psychoactive component in cannabis. The researchers injected the rats with the THC equivalent of about three-quarters of a joint (scaled down for a rat's size) every third day for 3 weeks until they reached mid-adolescence, about 7 weeks old. The dose probably created a mild buzz, but not high enough that the rats stumbled. After a week-long break, the rodents were allowed to self-administer heroin using levers that provide the substance.

Rats that had been exposed to THC as "teens" took about 25% more heroin than did their just-say-no peers. Biochemical tests of the adult animals showed that THC-doused brains had the same number of receptors that responded to THC as unexposed rat brains, but more receptors for heroin and more of a compound associated with reward behavior in their neurons, the team reports online 5 July in Neuropsychopharmacology. Whether this indicates marijuana is a "gateway" drug depends on the definition of "gateway," says Hurd. She says both groups of animals took the same amount of time to start taking heroin, suggesting THC use doesn't start them on the path to hedonism, but the THC-primed rats got more into it, suggesting it paves the way for increased use.

"The important finding is the fact that adolescence is a time of increased vulnerability to drugs," says neuropharmacologist Sari Izenwasser of the University of Miami School of Medicine in Florida, who notes that such behavior may alter fundamental brain processes. But pharmacologist Aron Lichtman at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond inserts a note of caution. "The data really are very provocative," he says, but not conclusive. He questions whether other reward-reinforcing behavior, such as eating food, would also be increased under these conditions.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: addiction; bogus; cannabis; drugskilledbelushi; garbage; health; heroin; leroyindenial; leroyknowshisrights; libertarians; medicine; onesided; potheads; propaganda; science; warondrugs; wod; wodlist
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Drugs or more drugs?
Exposure to THC in adolescence makes rats hungrier for heroin, which they access by pushing a lever.
Rats taking cannabis get taste for heroin news@nature.com's version

The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration at the National Institute on Drug Abuse

Info about drug addiction from the Mayo Clinic

1 posted on 07/08/2006 2:48:59 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Uh huh...And Global Warming will kill us all. Yawn.


2 posted on 07/08/2006 2:54:42 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: neverdem
of people who first puffed weed before age 15, 62% went on to use cocaine and 9% to use heroin. But of those who started smoking pot after age of 20, only 16% moved onto cocaine and 1% to heroin.

I wonder what those numbers would be if "nicotine cigarettes" were substituted for "weed".

3 posted on 07/08/2006 2:55:48 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: neverdem
news flash!!

99.783 % of heroin users were once users of caffeine

4 posted on 07/08/2006 3:00:49 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: muir_redwoods

LOL


5 posted on 07/08/2006 3:04:47 AM PDT by Schweinhund (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE antivirus. Please help me by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: neverdem
I'd be more enthusiastic, but I kind of lost interest when they banned all smoking for private businesses and turned their eyes on coffee.

At that point it kind of turned me. It's not about health, public safety or the children. It's about control, pure and simple. Besides, you can't promote a socialist health care scheme where millions are going to die as a result of neglect and corruption if you've got all that dangerous second hand smoke or evil trans fatty acids on the loose.

I'm no longer convinced the war on drugs is valid or justified. The biggest reason is that you just can't kill the demand, there are simply going to be addicts of some thing or another no matter what. OTOH, there may be free market methods to encourage control. I'd love to see more emphasis placed on that.

Still, when people talk about things like crack and crystal meth, well, at that point I have to give up my arguement. I can't think of a valid reason to permit the existence or use of such drugs. There are some things we can't resolve through our type of enforcement unless we take exceptionally harsh measures, and maybe we should consider brutal tactics for scpecial cases. Again, it dimishes my argument, but I can't possibly defend my point in this area. I'm not going to start a big flame war, but I've just lost faith in how the WOD is being handled and it's direction. We may think it's helping us now, but I can see it expanding rapidly out of control under a liberal administration and being used as an alternate method to subvert and destroy individual freedoms under the likes of a person like Hillary or worse.

I don't have a viable alternative, sadly. Just the same suggestion: Drive all socialists on our soil into the seas, and we will be amazed at how quickly our problems go away.

6 posted on 07/08/2006 3:10:34 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Izzy Dunne
I believe similar results can be obtained by conditioning rats to push a lever for ANY positive stimulus reward.

Why don't they do simple (and cheap) statistical research on what percentage of one-time pot users become serious consumers of heroin? Is it because 'scientific' research which results in no anti-drug message also results in no more research grants? Or am I just naive?

7 posted on 07/08/2006 3:11:29 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (Mass immigration and mass indoctrination of illegals is the current marxist strategy to gain power.)
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons
Or am I just naive?

The people who are naive are those who fall for such "research".

8 posted on 07/08/2006 3:17:55 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: rhombus
The people who are naive are those who fall for such "research".

'Acid-flacid babies' anyone? How about those carcinogenic cyclamates? And the radon, oh the radon! Right now I am in the process of insulating my home from the devastating effects of acid rain...

9 posted on 07/08/2006 3:21:11 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (Mass immigration and mass indoctrination of illegals is the current marxist strategy to gain power.)
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To: neverdem

What do you say we see how other common things (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, sugar, chocolate) fare under the same experimental conditions, before we decide what to do about pot? Do any of them lead to increased self-dosing of heroin, and if so, what should we do about them?


10 posted on 07/08/2006 3:23:05 AM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: coloradan

I don't know; I know a lot of potheads who never progressed to heroin. BTW, earning a paycheck by getting rats stoned must be a real hoot.


11 posted on 07/08/2006 3:51:01 AM PDT by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
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To: muir_redwoods
news flash!! 99.783 % of heroin users were once users of caffeine

I can go you one better, LOL. 100 % of heroin users once drank milk.

That joke being out of the way, I know people who have used marijuana medicinally (MS patients) and they didn't "go on" to heroin, they, in fact, didn't go on to oxycontin, or percocet, or vicodin.

The marijuana controlled their pain and spasticity, so they used less drugs, not more.

12 posted on 07/08/2006 3:51:12 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

You seem to be saying that human behavior cannot be predicted by rat behavior. Scientific heresy!


13 posted on 07/08/2006 4:00:18 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (Mass immigration and mass indoctrination of illegals is the current marxist strategy to gain power.)
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To: neverdem

I would rather smoke a God made plant any day then be hooked on Oxycontin like the almighty Rushbo. Oh I forgot he had a bad back so he's forgiven.


14 posted on 07/08/2006 4:49:26 AM PDT by hodaka
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons
'Acid-flacid babies' anyone? How about those carcinogenic cyclamates? And the radon, oh the radon! Right now I am in the process of insulating my home from the devastating effects of acid rain...

I'm going back to digging my bomb shelter. :-)

15 posted on 07/08/2006 5:31:34 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons
Abstract off topic --

You seem to be saying that human behavior cannot be predicted by rat behavior. Scientific heresy!

So - if a rat is born in in a free state paid hospital, raised on food stamps and subsidized housing - the rat will probably seek handouts the rest of it's life? We could learn how to repair our federal and state budgets from rats!

16 posted on 07/08/2006 5:35:42 AM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:-)
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To: CalvaryJohn
(snip)Yasmin Hurd, now at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, gave 4-week-old rats THC,(snip)"The researchers injected the rats with the THC equivalent of about three-quarters of a joint (scaled down for a rat's size)"(snip)(from article about stupid study)

I don't know; I know a lot of potheads who never progressed to heroin. BTW, earning a paycheck by getting rats stoned must be a real hoot.

3/4 of a joint for a baby rat?

The equivalent dose for a 170 lb. human would be - 2,000 joints with the estimated weight of the rat at one ounce!

Science - my @$$!

17 posted on 07/08/2006 5:54:18 AM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:-)
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To: neverdem

I'm not too worried...they only studied Democrats.


18 posted on 07/08/2006 5:59:46 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: neverdem

So where are the heroin addicts? Many millions of people use marijuana every year, why didn't they go on to heroin?


19 posted on 07/08/2006 6:00:48 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: coloradan
He questions whether other reward-reinforcing behavior, such as eating food, would also be increased under these conditions.

Lock me in a box and let me know that pressing the lever will make me feel good, and I'm guessing I'll press the lever.

20 posted on 07/08/2006 6:06:33 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Caipirabob
Sure we can "kill demand".

But you wouldn't like it.

21 posted on 07/08/2006 6:27:57 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: coloradan
"alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, sugar, chocolate...." ~ you forgot water.

No doubt water gives your typical druggy a mighty thirst for heroin injected straight up.

However, as the rest of us know, back in the "real world", no such thing happens to normal people.

I think this is the test you've always wanted ~ but you wanted different results. Bwwaaahahahahahahahahahahah~~~~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!

It's not happening.

Clue.

22 posted on 07/08/2006 6:30:41 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons

This study reports on a neurologic condition, not a behavioral situation. Rats have the same sorts of nerves you do ~ just fewer of them ~ that's why they're so stupid eh.


23 posted on 07/08/2006 6:32:38 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: hodaka

BTW, concerning smoking natural plants, try poison ivy.


24 posted on 07/08/2006 6:33:21 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Wolfie

Didn't you read all the way through the article? They noted that heroin costs much more than MJ. Poverty protects druggies from hard drugs every single time eh!


25 posted on 07/08/2006 6:35:20 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah
Gad ~ I must be up entirely too early for the drug trade crowd. Wonder why they can't get up and do stuff on Saturday morning. Hmmmm.

Maybe I could sneak up on one of 'em and take his stash eh.

26 posted on 07/08/2006 6:36:57 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: neverdem

27 posted on 07/08/2006 6:38:35 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life)
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To: neverdem
Did they do the test with alcohol, the real gateway drug, for comparison?
28 posted on 07/08/2006 6:40:43 AM PDT by Ninian Dryhope ("Bush lied, people dyed. Their fingers." The inestimable Mark Steyn)
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To: neverdem; Admin Moderator
neverdem, this is the same information you already posted at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1662183/posts. Why the double post?
29 posted on 07/08/2006 6:49:45 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: All
From another article (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1662183/posts ) about this same research:

Over-stimulation of these receptors through exposure to cannabis may alter these cells so that the brain either feels intensely rewarded by subsequent heroin exposure, or needs an ever-increasing dose to feel the same pleasure — both of which could lead to addiction.

So any drug is a gateway to any other drug, including alcohol and tobacco.

She adds that two other drugs that also stimulate opioid cells, and could therefore also feasibly cause a gateway effect, are nicotine and alcohol. "If we turned back the clock with the knowledge we have now, these two drugs would never have been legalized," Hurd says.

"Gateway" or not, Prohibition was a ringing failure ... as is the war on drugs.

30 posted on 07/08/2006 6:54:01 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: winston2

It says 3/4 of a joint "scaled down for a rat's size"


31 posted on 07/08/2006 6:56:08 AM PDT by varyouga (I no longer fear death. I only fear the day when the DUmmies take over.)
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To: CalvaryJohn

In a related story, 100% of adult rats that use heroin started by hanging out with lab researchers on government grants.


32 posted on 07/08/2006 7:14:25 AM PDT by Sender ("Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-b*tches we're going up against. By God, I do".)
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To: neverdem

This study does not pass the "so what test".


33 posted on 07/08/2006 7:16:41 AM PDT by roaddog727 (Bullsh## doesn't get bridges built.)
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To: muawiyah; A CA Guy; robertpaulsen
Gad ~ I must be up entirely too early for the drug trade crowd. ...

I am here, but I'm not in the "drug trade". I don't have a stash, but I can get anything I want on the drive over the hill. so can anyone else. As for sneaking up, try, please try! I'm not hard to find. I pinged your buddies since I refer the same thoughts to them.

I sell land, and travel services (not necessarily in that order). I did take some ibuprophen before Spot and I went over to the mountain for our morning walk in the woods. I do about 3-5 miles, while he gets his fill. He probably runs 20 miles or more, up and down the side of the mountains. I just walk and think. Sometimes I smoke a cigar, sometimes other things. I've never taken herooin in my life. I have smoked lots of marijuana.

You think you are such a smart-ass. Try building a new business with no bank account! You have to get your ass out of bed efore dawn. That has never been a problem for me. I had the habit long before I earned a cute little green, yellow, and red ribbon for my uniform. It has always stayed with me. My wife likes to stay in bed half the day. She does not drink alcohol, does not smoke anything, and works 55-60 hours a week. I could care less if she likes to stay in bed. At least I know where to find her. She's just turned 35. I am 58.

I have repeated the bizbuilding process four times already. I could sleep until noon, and still produce income from 23 (increase of 5 from last year) INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS whom I created jobs for. We all pay lots of taxes to help fund our president and his cronies, while they fuel the demise of our country... I feel as if my grandchildren have nothing to look forward to but enslavement to a new world order! I vote, have donated thousands to Republican campaigns, and worked hard to get what? I get grief from propagandists like you guys. Get a life, and worry about that mexican guy mowing the lawn next door.

Your dictatorial attitude is revealing. Get your own life in order before you lump everyone into a category. Isn't that the definition of bigotry. Maybe you could just call us by the 'N" word. You can't see the forest, guys.

I grew up in a military family, have lived among black, white, filipino, asian, and hispanic. I finished my education in the south, where people take you at your face, until you prove them wrong.

I have built houses for people on a handshake, and have delivered value in every transaction I ever undertook. I went bankrupt trying to satisfy an Indian guy who decided to take ambiguity in a printed contract, and used a slick lawyer take away my own lievlihood. I started over again, and have managed to do alright.

I am sick and tired of you bigots showing up on these threads. the cali girl, and the wannabepaulsen dude, you give conservative politics a really bad face!What can you say for your life, and why should I not smoke a little herb now and then? Because YOU don't like it?

(you can see spot run in the mist... like this morning!)


34 posted on 07/08/2006 7:56:16 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: muawiyah
They noted that heroin costs much more than MJ. Poverty protects druggies from hard drugs every single time

Wrong; many of them turn to crime ... which is when YOUR nanny-statism costs ME (in addition to the taxpayer money wasted on the war on drugs).

35 posted on 07/08/2006 8:09:00 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: muawiyah; rhombus; Izzy Dunne; muir_redwoods; Schweinhund; Caipirabob; ARepublicanForAllReasons; ...
I must be up entirely too early for the drug trade crowd.

Assuming by "drug trade crowd" you mean those who question the illegality of marijuana ... rhombus, Izzy Dunne, muir_redwoods, Schweinhund, Caipirabob, ARepublicanForAllReasons, coloradan, dawn53, hodaka, winston2, and Wolfie all posted before you this morning and expressed skepticism about this article.

Did you by any chance 'Irish up' your morning coffee before you logged on?

36 posted on 07/08/2006 8:16:28 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
"I wonder what those numbers would be if "nicotine cigarettes" were substituted for "weed"."

And if they were nearly the same, then what?

37 posted on 07/08/2006 8:52:15 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: coloradan

Moreover, they could have gave the rats an option between continued
marijuana use and the heroine.


38 posted on 07/08/2006 8:55:23 AM PDT by PaxMacian (Gen 1:29)
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons; rhombus; winston2
"'Acid-flacid babies' anyone? How about those carcinogenic cyclamates? And the radon, oh the radon! Right now I am in the process of insulating my home from the devastating effects of acid rain..."

Did all of you post on the thread about the article that said marijuana doesn't cause cancer? The report in the article even concluded that those who smoke marijuana are actually less likely to get cancer than those who don't smoke at all!

Did you post and call that junk science also? Or did you agree with it?

39 posted on 07/08/2006 9:09:41 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Know your rights
"So any drug is a gateway to any other drug, including alcohol and tobacco."

Why would you conclude that? She only mentioned alcohol and tobacco.

So, do you concede that marijuana, alcohol, and tobacco are gateway drugs?

40 posted on 07/08/2006 9:20:50 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: varyouga; winston2
"It says 3/4 of a joint "scaled down for a rat's size"

I think winston2 is engaged in a little "research" of his own, if you get my drift.

41 posted on 07/08/2006 9:25:23 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: pageonetoo

Well, good morning to you too George.


42 posted on 07/08/2006 9:57:31 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Know your rights

Well, then, when they start stealing enough to pay for Big H, they are no longer protected by poverty.


43 posted on 07/08/2006 9:59:52 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah
News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Gone to Pot?, muawiyah wrote: Well, good morning to you too George.

That's about what we could expect from you. It's about as clear as mud!


44 posted on 07/08/2006 10:05:22 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Know your rights
neverdem, this is the same information you already posted at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1662183/posts. Why the double post?

The first was from news@nature.com; the second is from ScienceNOW Daily News. It provides another perspective and more experimental detail, i.e. timing and quantity.

45 posted on 07/08/2006 12:09:20 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: pageonetoo
Man that picture brings back memories to me.

I was on Kona Hawaii on a long distance bike ride through tropical rain forest through private lands (was a paid for service).
Started to rain a couple of inches an hour and part of my ride looked like that.

Also at one point we rested and I looked over a fence and spotted a large field of marijuana growing.

You bet I made believe I didn't see it so I could get out of there at that point.
You don't want to be messing directly with drug cartels.
46 posted on 07/08/2006 2:18:12 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: neverdem
New research shows that rats exposed to pot's active ingredient at an early age devour more heroin as adults than rats without early exposure.

Boy, and I thought I had troubles keeping my dog off the computer.

I'll check back on this thread later to read the drug worshipers pushing their sacrament of recreational drugs.

47 posted on 07/08/2006 2:21:42 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
You bet I made believe I didn't see it so I could get out of there at that point.

You don't want to be messing directly with drug cartels. -ca gal

car·tel (kär-tĕl')

1. A combination of independent business organizations formed to regulate production, pricing, and marketing of goods by the members.
2. An official agreement between governments at war, especially one concerning the exchange of prisoners.
3. A group of parties, factions, or nations united in a common cause; a bloc.

I figured I would let you know the actual meaning of the word, since you assume facts not in evidence, and don't seem to know what it means.

You indicated were on a private farm, and spotted a large mj field.

Alllllrrrrrriiiiiighty... everybody knows a pot farmer keeps his fields beside the road, where everyone can see them!

You are entertaining, if nothing else...


48 posted on 07/08/2006 3:57:31 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: pageonetoo
Big field of pot is obviously connected to criminal activity, a drug cartel, gang or similar deal. Not even a libertarian can smoke that much pot.

It was a rain forest bike ride through private roads and there were no public roads between the beginning of the trip and the end. It was a few hours long and we went at least 20 miles over dirt trails. It was all trails, private gates opened with keys and when I found what I did I walked 25 feet away from the trail at break time.

It was not by a public road, I would say it was at least a half mile in on private roads with at least one locked gate.

Had a triathlete riding with us, he fell, I did NOT! :-)

49 posted on 07/08/2006 4:11:51 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
Is that you, gal?


50 posted on 07/08/2006 4:18:07 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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