Posted on 07/08/2006 7:44:54 AM PDT by america4vr
It is the flying that seems to baffle everyone. How, exactly, does Superman fly? Or does he, really? With the release of the "Superman Returns'' movie this week, you can bet there will be plenty of discussion (at least half-serious) about the limits and scope of the Man of Steel's super powers. Rather than engage in uninformed speculation, we went to the experts -- physics scholars at Cal and Stanford. Unfortunately, a lot of them are baffled, too. "The flying always bothered me,'' admits Richard Muller, a professor of astrophysics at Cal and a Superman fan. "I think what he really does is leap and guide himself along the air currents. Or, if you can't really rule out flying, maybe he has a mechanism for somehow forcing air backward -- what if the pores on his skin eject microscopic amounts of excess moisture, like sweat?'' Uh, OK. The real point is that the physicists get it. They understand, as Stanford senior and physics student Andy Leifer says, "If all these movies abided by the rules of physics, it would be a lot more like real life, and it would be a lot more boring." But that doesn't mean that they aren't thinking about it. And, despite what you may have heard, physics majors do have a sense of humor. A pretty good one, according to Ed Marti, listed as "Minister of the Interior'' on the Cal Society of Physics Students Web site. Or, as the Cal chapter sometimes calls itself, "the Uberdorks.'' "I think the physics department tends to be a little more humorous," Marti says. "A little kooky." When asked if it is possible for Superman to have X-ray vision, this is not a group that scoffs at the idea. Well, they may scoff a little bit.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
The need to explain the science of Superman and his source of power misses the point of what Superman represents in our culture.
As far as I'm concerned Superman transcends the natural, not by being supra-natural, that is, performing in a manner that seems to defy scientific principle that really only exploits it, the same way advanced alien civilizations would appear to defy scientific principle by travelling from one end pf space to another,but by being supernatural, a (supreme) being endowed with the powers of (a) god, without the need for any empirical substantiation.
The way I see it, Superman is a god, whose powers are supernatural, that is, powers that transcend the laws of science/ physics, powers that can not be explained but even more so, powers (of a god) that need not be explained.
None of the myriad, innumerable gods of ancient idol-worship nor any of the omnipotent, onminiscient, monotheistic God(s) (Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah) of the Bible or the Quoran, had to be rationalize their status as all-powerful diety by conforming to any principles of the natural world/ science.
Of course in those days there were no scientific principles to speak of but that's part of my point. Superman's powers are inexplicable. His powers are real because they exist. That's all anyone needs to know.
It's exactly like the case of the bumble bee. According to scientific principle, bumble bees should not exist. Their bodies are too large, their wings too stubby and short to support aerodynamic lift for flight. You'd think that once the bumble bee was found to be sceintifically unfeasible, POOF! it would cease to exist. But, it seems, the bumble bee won out over science by its mere existence.
Superman's powers work on the same principle. He can fly through time and space, violate whatever cosmological, Einstienian law he pleases,be invulnerable, impervious, do all the wonderful incredible, amazing things he does becausehe is after all, a god.
All I need to know that Superman's powers exist, the dynamics of which are mysterious, enigmatic, awesome and amazing, and that don't fortunately require any one of us to fathom how they work to know why they work.
Let me add an interesting historical footnote to all of this. Superman's creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster, were both Jewish. Superman's Kryptonian family name is -El. El in hebrew means God. His surname 'Kal' also happens to be another synonym for God in hebrew.
Well, even if you don't subscribe to Superman's jewish theme, the Nazis certainly did. You've got to see this to believe it. Follow the links to see a reproduction of Superman Action Comicwritten during WWII where Superman captures Hitler and Stalin dumpin them at the League of Nations. And then read the incredibly surreal official Nazi response to the Siperman's capture of Hitler in their local newpaper.
Superman and the Nazis. Background: Early in World War II, the Superman comic book published an episode in which Superman demolished part of the German West Wall with France. A copy found its way to Das Schwarze Korps, the weekly newspaper of the SS. It naturally was not pleased. The original article included excerpts from the comic book. Thanks to Ilpo Lagerstedt from Helsinki, who sent me the photocopy of the article, and to Eric Wilson, who informed me of this link to comic book referred to in the article. http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/superman.htm
The Superman episode referenced here is enttiled "How Superman Ends the War" February 27, 1940 http://superman.ws/tales2/endsthewar/?page=1
How does he fly? Super Bean induced rocket propulsion.
It must be sad to be so bright that you can't believe in fantasy or have any imagination at all. This guy doesn't believe in Peter Pan either.
If you ask me, Spiderman is the ones with the real cajones. Superman didn't require any bravery, Spidey knew he could be killed and he faced danger anyway.
Evol-Doer ping.
Nigh invulnerable? Oh yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about. Granted, I don't even know what nigh invulnerable means. Pert' near invincible? Who knows!
Spoooooon!
Superman and his creators NEVER said he could FLY!
He was ". . able to leap tall buildings with a single bound!"
Since our gravity was so weak compared to his Krypton home, he could jump very far here, just like lunar astronauts could jump very far on the moon.
Superman did not "fly" New York to San Francisco, he jumped there with the force from his Krypton-developed legs just like a cannon or ballistic missile can hurl things long distances.
This misunderstanding shows the disastrous lack of scientific knowledge being taught in our schools. We are becoming scientific illiterates.
Every one of Superman's powers can be scientifically explained (OK, the X-ray vision I'm still working on).
What is difficult to understand is what ever happened to those clothes he left in telephone booths? I know - for a lot of you the question is "what's a telephone booth?"
Scientifically, his feats are impossible. Period. There is no was ANY of them could be real. Unless we suspend disbelief long enough to focus on the hypothesis -- the "what if" -- instead of the details. Then, credibility becomes a non-issue, and the story unfolds as an imaginary journey, which is all a freakin' comic book is supposed to be anyway.
A god? No. Superman has no religious overtones. And he is, in fact, vulnerable to many of the same emotional weaknesses that humans are. Even if his body is steel, his heart isn't. Which adds another dimension to the story, by the way.
Makes for a boring hero, doesn't it? A hero who cannot lose isn't a hero at all.
Dude...the same way Peter Pan does. Next question?
My bean theory explains that too! I shall call it "The Grand Unified Bean Theory".
Your theory stinks. But it does explaine Peter Pan and every other super hero flying so you may be on to something.
Personally I always attributed Peter Pan's flight as being the result of being light in the loafers.
Yes, yes it does. But, and I haven't worked out all the details yet, I think it provides an elegant explanation as to why the universe is expanding.
I want to know how Superman changed directions in space.I think it has something to do with the String theory.
Superman eventually realized that he could not eliminate evil and retired to his under-ice farm in Antarctica, the Cave of Repose becoming the Cave of Permanent Retirement.
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax...
When Superman's in space he changes direction by extending
his left arm to indicate lhe's about to make a left turn or extending his right arm to indicate he's about to make a right turn. You know., the way it's done driving a car. :-)
Nor do the scientific improbabilities overcome their interest. Almost all of them said they could not rule out the idea that some kind of anti-gravity force might be discovered. And they agreed that the original Superman premise -- that he came from the planet Krypton, where the gravitational pull was so strong that he was superhumanly powerful in Earth's lower gravity -- makes sense.This made original sense in that the original Superman's powers were rather less than what they soon became as the writers played around. He was able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, but did not fly. He was bullet-proof, but not A-bomb proof. (There were no such weapons in the 1930s anyway.)
What is he doing when he flies? He seems to be able to reverse direction, hover, go anywhere, do anything.
By sometime in the early 60s, he was fighting a near-mirror villain named Bizarro at ground zero of an A-bomb test. Their fight just happened to take them there at the moment of detonation.
When the smoke cleared, Bizarro was gone. Superman wasn't even radioactive. What kind of atoms is he made of that they don't become plasma at temperatures above 10,000 degrees F? What kind of atoms is his costume made of?
You can't do this with "gravity was higher on his home planet" and/or "his world had a RED sun and our world has a YELLOW sun."
* (beans)
One doesn't found a religion on gods who are secular. The Greek and Roman pantheons were home to those cultures' religions. The polytheism of both cultures meets every definition of religion. So I would have to disagree with your characterization.
However, I take your point. Still, removing the religious overtones enforces my point: Superman is not a god, but simply a Super Man ... and not all that Super in some important ways.
Many, many moons ago, SciFi author Larry Niven wrote a piece about Superman called "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex", in which he discussed the problems that Clark and Lois would have if they were to have sex.
I am curious....
LOL!!
Uh-oh...
How about "Super Dave Osbourne"? He gets hospitalized at the end of every stunt.
Photo taken just before Fuji threw the switch.
Old Supy comes from a planet with a red sun. We mere knuckleheads live in a system with a yellow sun.
The rays of a yellow sun give Superman cosmic energy powers that transcend physics as we know it. His flying abilities are just a byproduct of our suns alternate radiation (Yellow vs. Red) building up in his bod.
His ability to travel and turn in space is because he can increase or decrease his graviational mass without thought or consequence. Its akin to our ability to float or not float in a pool if we control the amount of air in our lungs and our body fat percentages through diet.
His supervision is derived also from solar energy and mental concentration (ROFL).
WOW,,, I feel like a 1960's comicbook flashback just happened!!
Definitions of religion on the Web: * a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality" * an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
You bring to attention how the writers of Superman had to deal wth a superhero whose powers and abilties changed dramatically over the years, unlike superheros like, Spider-Man certainly Batman whose physical prowess remained unchanged .
The lower gravity on Earth comapared to Krypton does not provide enough scientific rationalization that would allow him to fly even leap the way he did. Astronauts on the moon certainly weren't able to leap in any way near what Superman initially seemed able to do. The red sun pseudo-science hogwash allowed the writers to get away with so much, they eventually had to roll back some of his super abilties.
Beans. No Beano.
Everything is available on the internet.
http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html
Probably a little two "biological" for the kids. :-)
you are way over analyzing this.
first superman can fly by using a flipper motion of his feet that move so fast, you simply can not see them move.
second, superman is a male adolescent fantasy that I still like to indulge in. it is nothing more.
My motto, when you stop dreaming, you die.
Keep dreaming and enjoy.
You post made me grin. It reminded this go-around my husband and I had re: vampires.
It was some kind of movie where this guy who was a vampire was driving a car in "the Big City", and I turned to my husband and asked:
"If vampires don't cast a reflection in a mirror can you take a photo of one?"
Hubby said he didn't think so, for the same reason you can't see one in the mirror.
Then I asked, "Then how did he get his driver's license? Or is he driving without a license?"
Which led to....
-- Does an electric eye recognize a vampire? You know, like when he goes into Lowe's or something -- does the automatic door open for him?
-- Can he be seen on the security camera, or to the person watching the monitor does the object he pick up just seem to float in space?
-- If you were backing up your car (after glancing in the rear-view mirror) and hit a vampire, could you be charged? I know they're supposed to be "un-dead" but they can get squashed by 2 tons of metal...can't they?
-- If a vampire doesn't show a reflexion in a mirror does he cast a shadow? If not, why not? If so, why one without the other?
-- Why do they always show vampires as rich? They travel forward in time just like the rest of us. That being the case, they don't know the next big stock, historical event, super invention, or whatever money maker than you or I do. (Going backwards in time, yeah. But not forward into the unknown future)
-- Why don't vampires save a lot of trouble and just bite people on the wrists?
The Annual Superhero Convention had just opened in Las Vegas, and Superman bumps into Batman whilst cruising the "All-you-can-eat" Smorgasbord offerings at one of the casinos. The following conversation takes place:Superman: "Hey, Bat-breath; what ho? How goes things in Gotham?"
Batman: "Yo, Man-of-Steel! Long time no see. Life is smooth in Gotham, what up in Metropolis?"
Superman: "Oh, man; you wouldn't believe what happened to me there last month..."
Batman: "Sh*t, bro; don't hold back... share the love!"
Superman: "It was a quiet Saturday afternoon -- no crime going on, and it was warm and sunny, so I went out for cruise around the city, you know, 'sight seeing' (wink-wink, nudge nudge.)"
Batman: "I hear ya, dude! Checking out the 'indigenous scenery' again, eh?"
Superman: "You got that right. So after about a hour of cruising around looking at all the hot babes wearing skimping outfits in Metropolis, I look down on the roof of this swanky penthouse apartment building, and what do I see but 'Wonder Woman" lying there on a Barcalounger sunbathing, with nothing on but her damned bracelets!"
Batman: "Whoa! You have to be kidding me, dude..."
Superman: "..... so I rack it up into a tight turn to check out this spectacular piece of superhero @ss, and go into a holding pattern as I just cruise overhead scoping her out. After about 20 minutes, I just couldn't take it anymore -- I mean, they don't call me the 'man of steel' for nothing, so I decided 'what the heck?' and pulled down my super-suit and peeled off into a steep dive faster than a speeding bullet, and stuffed it straight between those spread-eagled legs of 'Wonder Woman'...."
Batman; "Holy cow! That sure must have surprised the Hell out of Wonder Woman!"
Superman: "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............. not half as much as it surprised the 'Invisible Man'!!!"
The Greatest American Hero said Superman lived in a time where he could just come back later and pick them up, but not so these days: "This is gonna cost me a fortune!"
Now you've done it! A certain freeper with a certain fixation (and I don't mean an "invisible man" fixation) will be dropping by here to condemn us to perdition.
Bees can't fly in the normal sense either, with bernolli pressures higher on the lower
If you find a bee, kill it, and let it rigor in the normal wings out position, it will glide like a rock. So, something else must be going on.
It drives its wings down so fast that a partial vacuum is created above it. Moral: flight doesn't scale, and enough power overcomes theoretical aerodynamic disadvantage.
Comic book readers will recall that the Hulk jumped, and when he landed, he smashed hole in the ground, rather like a dud artillery shell. Now you never see that happen with Superman, do you?
If you shoot his uniform/costume when he is not in it, is it still bulletproof? If he was solid steel behind it, the fabric would be destroyed by shear forces. For his clothes not to turned into "Sergeant Fury"-esque rags, he must have some field infront of the uniform.
I hold with the ability to create microjets of gas at relativistic speeds from pores in his skin. But that would sure be hard on his clothes when not using his special suit. Of course for normal flights, a subset of the pores, say from face and hands, could provide enough thrust.
The big question: Where does all that power come from? Direct matter-energy conversion is the only thing that is remotely efficient enough, though using only some elements (say hydrogen atoms in water he drinks).
No, no, no. He sticks his head in a toaster... and when the toaster 'pops', he is ejected out and into the air. Once in the air, 'Toastomic Particles' keep him aloft.
...
Wait, you mean this a thread about 'Powdered Toast Man'?
:-P
Quite easy to explain - he used gravity wells and planetary slingshots, like we use on our space probes to the far limits of our solar system. Jupiter was one of his favorite slingshot bodies. So you won't sound ignorant, the proper terminology is to he say he "exchanged angular momentum with another celestial body."
Ping post #37.
Superman probably didn't start off as a god but he comes from the Jewish tradition of the golem (or borrows from it) and later tellings of the Superman saga DEFINITELY lend him an air of godliness (even Christliness.)
From the apparent "sacrifice" and "resurrection" (they go to his hospital bed and he is gone, just as they go to Jesus tomb and he is gone) to his "i'm always around" and the "the world cries out for a savior" and not only his name -El but the language used in Puzo's screenplay (the Son Becomes the Father and the Father Becomes the son.)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.