Posted on 07/08/2006 7:50:43 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
Got your backside covered. Enforce the laws that are already there. We cannot BELIEVE they will enforce any new laws.
I've probably been lurking longer than you've been around. I know exactly where you stand.
| THE PENCE PLAN | THE TANCREDO PLAN |
|---|---|
| Secure Our Border | Secure Our Nation's Borders |
| Put in place a guest worker program, without amnesty... | Establish a Genuine Guest Worker Program |
| Make the decision, once and for all, to deny amnesty to people whose first act in the United States was a violation of the law. | Remove Incentives for Illegal Immigration |
| Enforce tough employer sanctions that ensure a full partnership between American business and the American government in the enforcement of our laws on immigration and guest workers. | Improve “Interior Enforcement” of Immigration Laws |
You are the status quo stinky...... open borders and amnesty has always been your approach. Liberal immigration reformer.
So? You were too scared to take any fire.
Stop giving orders to other posters. It's unseemly, especially from a noob.
ROTFLOL!
Such a tiresome and fallacious claim.
Like I said before, if someone decides to enforce the laws we already have then maybe some will believe you.
LOL! Open borders? Amnesty? I never figured you for drunk talk.
Support your assertion, or shut your yap.
Pound some sand.
A guest worker program in NOT going to be part of the any "new" law, which we don't need. I am going to fight this tooth and nail and so are many, many other conservatives and very many liberals. The legislature had better listen to the people on this one if they want to keep their jobs, and if the republicans don't want to lose a whole bunch of voters to a third party.
This is not something people take lightly. Guest workers are out, secure the border, worry about "guest workers" 5 years down the road.
As far as Pence's plan, we don't need a new plan. We aren't enforcing the border now, what makes you think we would enforce an new law? An enforcement deal was included in RR's amnesty deal also, and we all see how that worked out. As far as "not resolving the problem for months", I don't ever want the guest worker problem resolved until we have border security. No one I know is panting to get a guestt worker program.
Stop giving orders to other posters. It's unseemly.
Stop giving orders to a rosebyanyothername. It's unseemly.
Back it up my arse! You support anything Bush is for. On immigration reform, you're another Texas liberal who supports the cheap labor that business gets from open borders and any amnesty provision for illegals that perpetuates the fraud is fine by you.
HR4437 is the real deal. Secure the borders and enforce employers sanctions. Anything else is status quo BULLoney.
Part of the reason why the laws aren't enforced is because immigration laws are obsolete and underfunded. Pence's plan modernizes the laws, gives law enforcement the tools and funding, and lets the private sector screen and process guest-workers faster and cheaper instead of gov't bureaucrats.
You don't know the defintion of 'amnesty'. According to Bouvier's Dictionary of Law, used by the USSC:
AMNESTY, government. An act of oblivion of past offences, granted by the government to those who have been guilty of any neglect or crime, usually upon condition that they return to their duty within a certain period.
2. An amnesty is either express or implied; it is express, when so declared in direct terms; and it is implied, when a treaty of peace is made between contending parties. Vide Vattel, liv. 4, c. 2, 20, 21, 22; Encycl. Amer. h.t.
3. Amnesty and pardon, are very different. The former is an act of the sove reign power, the object of which is to efface and to cause to be forgotten, a crime or misdemeanor; the latter, is an act of the same authority, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed from the punishment the law inflicts for the crime he has committed. 7 Pet. 160. Amnesty is the abolition and forgetfulness of the offence; pardon is forgiveness. A pardon is given to one who is certainly guilty, or has been convicted; amnesty, to those who may have been so.
4. Their effects are also different. That of pardon, is the remission of the whole or a part of the punishment awarded by the law; the conviction remaining unaffected when only a partial pardon is granted: an amnesty on the concrary, has the effect of destroying the criminal act, so that it is as if it had not been committed, as far as the public interests are concerned.
5. Their application also differs. Pardon is always given to individuals, and properly only after judgment or conviction: amnesty may be granted either before judgment or afterwards, and it is in general given to whole classes of criminals or supposed criminals, for the purpose of restoring tranquillity in the state. But sometimes amnesties are limited, and certain classes are excluded from their operation.
____________________________________________
So, even Pence's bill (when he actually offers it) provides amnesty for the law breakers, according to the definition of the word.
Unseemly? (I'm not even going to go there). I am so tired of all of these "immigration" posts about the "new bill". WE DO NOT NEED IMMIGRATION REFORM!!! We need to enforce our laws.
Pence's plan passes HR 4437 in its entirety.
Come on now Reagan Man...
rosie's a noob with big elbows. She needs a little more mileage before throwing her weight around
Thanks.
| THE PENCE PLAN | THE TANCREDO PLAN |
|---|---|
| Secure Our Border | Secure Our Nation's Borders |
| Put in place a guest worker program, without amnesty... | Establish a Genuine Guest Worker Program |
| ...deny amnesty to people whose first act in the United States was a violation of the law. | Remove Incentives for Illegal Immigration |
| Enforce tough employer sanctions... | Improve “Interior Enforcement” of Immigration Laws |
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