Posted on 07/08/2006 7:50:43 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
More liquor-talk. Back it up, RM, or shut your fat mouth.
HR 4437 is not going anywhere. It's Pence's plan (which includes a form of 4437) or nothing.
The deep question with regards to Mexico is how do you make Mexico a first class country. This is something that Vincente Fox brought up frequently in May and June.
The trouble is that no one quite sees that the very best thing we could do for Mexico is to send their now well trained citizens home.
Suddenly Mexico would have a skilled workforce who knew something about how a world class country worked.
Think these folk would propel a great leap forward for Mexico?
I do.
Basically the ruling class in Mexico is preditory to its own detriment and will not change of its own volition--even if those changes were in its own interest. But it can be forced to change.
The Mexicans in the USA have had the picture of what a well run country looks like tatooed on the back of their eyeballs. And they'll have an idea of how to get there. Send them back to Mexico and they'll get a revolution in Mexico that'll do that country some good.
The shock troops for that would be the 12 million repatriated Mexican citizens. Having seen what a well run country looks like they would not want to be stuffed back in the old wineskin.
Also, Mexico will need a stronger dose of of the Peruvian Hernando Desoto ideas. Basically DeSoto asked the question why are some countries poor and some countries rich. The basic answers is that in poor countries most of their economy is informal or off the books and their property--ie--land is not formally recognized. (Therefor these countries have no borrowing power and property has no value that can be transferred or liquidated.)De Soto's solutions are being implimented successfully in countries around the world. http://www.ild.org.pe/home.htm
Hernando de Soto's organization was invited to Mexico and did some work on the question. He says that only 6 percent of Mexican enterprises are legal, the rest are informal or off the books. So how do you reverse that so that only 6% of the economy is informal -- as is the case the USA. De Soto would provide the ideas around which the 12 million american trained Mexican returnees could rally.
There's something more.
I follow water desalination research pretty closely. While water desalination costs have dropped to about a third of what they were 15 years ago--the rate at which prices will drop over the next seven years will accelerate considerably. imo in even the next five years we will see desalination costs drop to 1/10th of today's costs. Or even faster than the fall the 3/4 fall that the LLNL researchers suggest. http://www.physorg.com/news67262683.html Basically, the foundations are being laid today to make it economically feasable to to turn all the world's deserts green. (The proper way to look at this is to recall that cars, tv's and computers were at first rich men's toys but when prices came down they changed the world. Desalinised water is still relatively speaking -- a rich man's toy. But when the price drops sufficiently--desalinised water will change the world--because most deserts are right beside the ocean. Pumping the water 1000 miles inland will require that the scientists collapse the cost cracking out hydrogen from water. I think that this nut will be cracked sooner than desalination.)
imho cheap desalinised water will do for the republicans (if they can get this on their agenda or even the democrats if the pubbies drop the ball) what the great dam building projects & the tva of the 1930's & 40's did for democrats because 1/3 of the US is deserts. We would increase the habitable size of the USA by 1/3.
Dirt cheap desalinised water will also do things like make it possible to double the habitable size of Mexico. Cheap water is no magic bullet but it will give the Mexican Nationalists a way to dream while the Mexican people do the real work.
A first generation crop that might be appropriate would be one that India has chosen for ist biofuels program. The crop is Jatropha Curcas - a bush. This shrub produces a seed containing oil. This oil works well for biodiesel production ( see http://www.d1plc.com ).
Jatropha Curcas is native to Mexico and Central America (probably originated there). This shrub can be grown in large plantations on marginal soil - assuming some reasonable amount of, say, desalinated water).
Think Jatropha Curas could take up the slack from current oil production? I do.
But years before the USA collapsed the cost of desalinised water--the USA could change the future by announcing that the goal of American research is to kill the cost of water desalination and transport so that it becomes economically possible to turn the world's deserts green. Reagan changed the future by announcing star wars. Bush could change the future by announcing the plan for the greening of the world's deserts. (After all, the federales in mexico city would be forced to reconsider the wisdom of pushing their citizens north if they knew their lands would be one day green and fertile and in need of people.)
And desalinated water in tandem with repatriation of now skilled Mexican citizens would propel Mexico into being a world class country.
There is a winner here. The winner is Mexico.
The US profits too by having a prosperous politically stable country with a broad middle class to the south as we do to the north.
You know something, the President of the United States could correct this without "help" of the Senate or the Congress.
Secure the borders and enforce employer sanctions FIRST. Come and see me after HR4437 becomes law. The Pence plan is DOA.
There will be Pence's bill or something like it, or there will be the status quo.
Which would you prefer?
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We have guest worker programs now. The so-called "W" visa would do two things. (1)Extend the guest worker quotas and (2)allow green card applicants to apply for and then wait for a green card inside this country (instead of outside the country).
That's the amnesty aspect.
This is direct from the Pence plan. For three years there is unlimited immigration.
Your claim that guest workers numbers are limited are a LIE. You have no credibility.
The Pence Plan - Put in place an amnesty program, but because we make the illegal alien step out of the country for a few hours to get his papers signed, we can deny it is amnesty.
Now that Pence has proposed nearly the exact same legislation, he's hung out to dry and called a RINO.
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the problem is that everyone now understands that amnesty/guestworker programs are not in the best interests of the USA or Mexico.
Guess again. The administration or the Senate will not pass any immigration bill that doesn't include a guest-worker provision, including one that Tancredo himself has supported up until now.
I am going to fight this tooth and nail and so are many, many other conservatives and very many liberals.
Have fun fighting and demonstrating. I'm sure there'll be illegal alien vendors serving you food and drinks and running the port-a-potties.
The legislature had better listen to the people on this one if they want to keep their jobs, and if the republicans don't want to lose a whole bunch of voters to a third party.
If the status-quo continues it'll be bad news for the Republicans in 2008. You need to look ahead - pass tough immigration reform now which secures the borders, or watch as demoralized conservatives stay home and Dims take over. Then immigration reform will NEVER see the light of day.
This is not something people take lightly. Guest workers are out, secure the border, worry about "guest workers" 5 years down the road.
Pence's plan takes care of the guest-workers now instead of kicking the can down the road. Is that what you want?
As far as Pence's plan, we don't need a new plan. We aren't enforcing the border now, what makes you think we would enforce an new law?
I agree that the administration is stubborn on this. But like I said, part of the reason why the laws aren't enforced is because the funding and technology ain't there. There's no database, no uniform standards, no way of verifying all those paper I-9 forms. The whole system needs to be updated, and Pence's bill addresses this.
We need to fund additional CBP, we need to fund additional detention beds and we need to create and fund a legal employee verification system.
The guy you are talking to has been fighting for border enforcement for 2 years around here.
LOL Silly clown-boy.
Back up what? That you're a Texas liberal? We all know that. That you support Bush 100% of the time? We all know that too. Now you say you support the Pence proposal. BFD! The Pence proposal is going nowhere. You like it because it gives a new face to liberal amnesty and a path to citizenship. Fine. That is what you support.
I prefer the House version of immigration reform that was passed last december 2005. HR4437 is the real deal.
The only polls that show that Americans oppose a guestworker program are a questionable Zogby poll, and one taken by an adjunct of FAIR, which opposes even legal immigration.
All others indicate that a guestworker program is supported by the American public.
So? The Senate doesn't, nor does Bush, at least not without the guestworker provision.
IOW, you prefer the status quo.
Pence's plan secures the borders, for the seven hundred-thousandth time.
and enforce employer sanctions FIRST.
Pence's plan dries up the jobs and sends the illegals packing.
Come and see me after HR4437 becomes law.
Good. I'll ping you when the President signs the Pence plan.
The Pence plan is DOA.
Enjoy the illegal problem continuing then.
ROFL! Goodbye troll...
Securing the borders and enforcing employer sanctions first IS NOT supporting the status quo, you knucklehead! LOL
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