Posted on 07/18/2006 6:07:46 AM PDT by A. Pole
Field tests by construction workers indicated that bolt-and-epoxy fasteners might not support the multi-ton ceiling panels in the Interstate 90 connector tunnel, but the firm that designed the tunnel persuaded Big Dig officials to use the system anyway, law enforcement officials said yesterday.
[...]
The Massachusetts Turnpike Authority and lead management contractor Bechtel/Parsons Brinckerhoff approved both decisions as the tunnel ceiling was built in 1999.
As the connector tunnel ceiling was under construction, Modern Continental Corp. workers expressed concerns after field tests indicated the bolt fixtures were unsound, law enforcement officials said.
[...]
The workers' concerns were sent to Modern Continental, which was building the tunnel; Bechtel/Parsons Brinckerhoff; and the Turnpike Authority, which runs the Big Dig, the officials said.
The design firm, Gannett Fleming Inc., countered that its design was safe, the officials said. Although it was unclear how the debate played out, in the end, the Big Dig kept Gannett Fleming's design for the ceilings in the tunnel, which opened in January 2003.
[...]
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
We hear on FR and elsewhere that it is unions to blame. Now what?
Ronald J. Drnevich, P.E. - Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer
Robert J. Dietz, P.E. - Vice Chairman, President and Chief Operating Officer
Chester L. Allen, P.E. - Senior Vice President and Secretary
Roger J. Banks, P.E. - Senior Vice President
John G. Diviney, P.E. - Senior Vice President
Gene C. Koontz, P.E. - Senior Vice President
Robert M. Scaer, P.E. - Senior Vice President
The big question here is this: why was B P/B and this design firm so willing to sign off on this design, and make all sorts of allowances for it?
We will only find this out when Matt Amarello is removed and all documents pertaining to the Big Dig become public.
I'm thinking all the good docs are long gone, though. Through the shredder. If these clowns can blow $200 million on a video surveillance system that doesn't record the comings and goings in the tunnel continuously, methinks they aren't going to keep incriminating docs around very long . . .
I hope Gannett Flemning gets a good going over.
AG: 3 ceiling bolts had no epoxy (Big Dig)
The problem with using epoxied bolts seems to be that the union workers sabotaged them.
Or maybe they were just incompetent, it's hard to tell with unions. The Globe will cover up whichever it was.
Always makes me distrust a guy who is supposed to be running an important business ~ raises the question of what is it he is trying to hide.
On the other hand, he could simply be a dunce who lets junior design engineers make foolish mistakes that end up putting the existence of his company at risk.
P. E.? Protecting Edifaces?
"Glue on bolts removed from the tunnel roof near the accident site was brittle and cracked, not like smooth glass as it should have been, a source briefed on the state investigation but not authorized to speak publicly has told the Globe. Similar ceiling bolts in the Ted Williams Tunnel failed safety tests in 1994 because construction workers failed to mix the two epoxy ingredients correctly, didn't let it harden long enough, or failed to clean the surfaces being glued together, according to a state report."
Seems like they've gotta assume that stuff like this is going to happen, and make allowance for it.
I have not been following this closely, but I thought the consensus here was that this was a management/engineering screw-up. I mean, there will be a few comments about drunken workers and protecting incompetents in the union, but I don't think that what most FReepers are saying, is it?
Big projects are a curious mix of priorities. You can build it cheap and fast, or more expensive and slow. The engineers and contractors were probably told "Finish it now" and put in the questionable tiles even though they knew it was a risk. I have seen the same thing happen to many times to count.
Professional Engineer
Union flak.
Workers always know more than bosses or designers or engineers. They want fasteners that are self installing and require the unskilled overpaid featherbedder to watch the procedure.
Oh.
I wonder why this isn't trumpeted all over the airwaves with the same moral indignity reserved for Enron and Global Crossing. Oops, Global Crossing was too minor to warrant attention.
They knew there was a problem in 1998.
http://www.mass.gov/ig/publ/catboltr.pdf
bttt
Look for...The Union Label...
I'd be curious to see a list of political donations made by these gentlemen, and to whom the money went.
Hey, it's a long walk to get another tube, plus it was close to quitting time. Cut them some slack. < /s>
My question is, who in their right mind would suspend concrete slabs with no structural value and for appearance sake only.
The only reason I can think of is for an architect packing the cost for his 10% fee.
Other Freepers have already noted that there are better design solutions ~
In any case, the support elements should have had enough redundancy that the failure of a few bolts shouldn't have led to catastrophic failure of the whole device.
Now, about "sabotage" ~ how is it you know that the epoxy wasn't of such low quality that it simply separated from the bolts? Did you have something to do with buying materials for this job?
It sounds to me like there are a lot of variables critical to making the bolt/epoxy solution work correctly. Must be like those Super Glues where you mix 40% of one tube and 60% of another, wait a specified time, etc. Weather/ temperature could impact it, I bet, as well as 'worker intelligence.' And how close it was to break time.
IOW, "You want it good or you want it Tuesday?"
Who are eight people who will never build my deck?
I think you'll need to look for INDIVIDUAL contributions to various candidates on this one. Try Specter's campaign funds ~ these guys are a Pennsylvania firm.
I have been. They make interesting reading, too :) Kerry's gotten some of their money.
The reality is that majority of people are neither very honest and brave or very corrupt. They are in between.
When it is safe to criticize they will, when they risk losing their jobs by doing so they will not.
In a perfect world we would not need unions and we would not need police and we would not need corporations as well.
I suggested earlier that the use of multi-ton concrete slabs was for the purpose of assisting the local Boston concrete industry. Boosting the value of a design fee seems a little over the line ~ after all, they negotiate the fees before they do the work, and it takes as much effort to design a large concrete slab with re-bar as a lighter weight structure stiffened with epoxy and fiberglass.
Looks like the crooks in charge are going to blame the workers first and foremost.
Easier.
Having worked inspection on very heavy construction projects, I found it wise to listen to and consider seriously the comments from experienced workers; even common laborers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are a wise man, in 1972 I took a job with a company which had a long and successful career in the office and printing equipment industry. During my first week the supervisor showed me a small machine sitting idle and told me that the company had spent a lot of money trying to sell this item but it could not be made to work for eight hours straight without problems. Within a year of going to work for this company it became obvious that any one of their hundreds of service representatives could have told the management that the machine would never work before the first one was ever built. Sometimes it is amazing to see how people at the top can "flog a dead horse" and sometimes destroy a company in the process when it is obvious to those who are actually chasrged with making it work that it never will work.
Post your results. Then we can all say "Ah, ha, I told you so".
Something else I'd like to know: If the much lighter ceiling panels were good enough for the tunnel, why weren't they good enough for the connector?
This sort of language is right out of the "liability lawsuit" playbook.
There was a break in at the offices,the documents are gone as reported on the Howie Carr show,his radio show is out of the Boston area!
DRNEVICH, RONALD
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
ENGINEER
WARREN, ANDREW L
VIA WARREN FOR CONGRESS
10/01/2005 250.00 26930018683
DRNEVICH, RONALD
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNET FLEMING INC./ENGINEER
KING, PETER
VIA PETE KING FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE
03/16/2006 500.00 26960055884
DRNEVICH, RONALD
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING/ENGINEER
AMERIPAC: THE FUND FOR A GREATER AMERICA
06/30/2003 1000.00 23991512145
PUERTO RICO STATUS RESOLUTION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE INC
10/06/2004 5000.00 24981529415
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HAIRRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING INC/ENGINEER
DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF FLORIDA
07/28/2004 1000.00 24962196594
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING INC FEDERAL PAC
12/30/2005 -450.00 26990019827
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING INC
PENELAS, ALEX
VIA ALEX PENELAS US SENATE CAMPAIGN
06/30/2004 1000.00 24020583469
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING INC.
GANNETT FLEMING INC FEDERAL PAC
06/18/2004 1500.00 24961752915
11/15/2004 1000.00 24981529536
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING INC./PROFESSIONAL
GANNETT FLEMING INC FEDERAL PAC
04/08/2005 1500.00 25970571178
06/14/2005 300.00 25970571180
06/28/2005 200.00 25970571181
12/21/2005 1500.00 26990019630
02/09/2006 1200.00 26960031800
03/16/2006 600.00 26960031801
04/19/2006 250.00 26960180851
DRNEVICH, RONALD J
HARRISBURG, PA 17112
GANNETT FLEMING/ENGINEER
HOLDEN, T. TIMOTHY
VIA FRIENDS OF CONGRESSMAN TIM HOLDEN
04/26/2006 250.00 26960083689
Workers are no less human beings than owners/employers and as such they should have their organizations.
Lessons (re)learned from all of this - Never let facts, safety or sound decision-making interfere with a golden opportunity for corruption, kickbacks and skimming.
I've done a lot of work with two-part adhesives. They can be tricky. That, however, is one of the things you need to factor in. "How likely are these instructions to be followed?" Always assess work on the PITA scale.
Buncha' Democrats eh?!
Are you sh*tting me? Is this true?
I would say that over 90% of the jobs that we did over the last 50 years the architect was paid on the basis of 10% of the cost of the job or if they contracted for design and on site supervision they got 15%.
Take a look at all the wasted money on public works projects against privste commercial structures, it's called packing it for fees.
That would make you an exception.
Its been my experience that there is nothing more stupid and arrogant than a young engineer with a shiny new hardhat.
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