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How Young Is Too Young? (Teen Sex)
Agape Press ^ | 7/12/06 | Jane Jimenez

Posted on 07/18/2006 4:42:43 PM PDT by wagglebee

(AgapePress) - I think she still holds it against me. As a teen today, it's absolutely ludicrous to think that my niece Katie needs to hold my hand while crossing the street.

But way back when, when Katie was just three, our battle of wills produced fierce tears. On a shopping trip, I her aunt, was entrusted with her safety. All was going well ... until the moment I grabbed Katie's hand before we crossed the busy parking lot in front of the store.

Katie jerked her hand away from me. Hearing a car's motor on the left, I reached out to catch her hand again. It took us a full minute to establish that she was going to hold my hand as we crossed the street. And, if today she still holds it against me, I must confess ... I'm not sorry for insisting on winning the battle.

Life is like that. One minute we're too young to be entrusted with a task. And then we aren't.

Life is like that. One minute we're held back. And then, crossing the line in the sand, we are suddenly old enough to be trusted with new responsibilities. It's a simple principle. And yet, it's a principle some want us to ignore in the most significant area of life for American teens today.

Today, we are embroiled in a national debate about how to handle sexual behavior related to teens and adolescents. In a surprising upheaval of logic, there are "sexperts" who cannot find any line in the sand at all to dictate a time when sex is absolutely, unequivocally and irrevocably inappropriate for young people.

Instead, these "sexperts" have declared this the "Age of Consent." If you can get or give consent, then you are old enough to have sex.

Ignoring the health implications for teens who are sexually active, these "sexperts" wag their fingers in the face of abstinence educators, rejecting any attempt to set a line in the sand. Who is "ready" for sex, you ask? Anyone who "consents" to have sex, they answer.

Embracing the philosophy of Kinsey, all sex is good sex ... if you can dream it up, if you can manage to perform it, and if it is consensual ... then it is good sex.

Like all ideas, pushing to the extreme, we eventually must come to terms with the insanity of insane ideas. Consider the case of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). According to Wikipedia, it is "a New York City- and San Francisco-based unincorporated organization that opposes the use of age as the sole criterion for deciding whether minors can legally engage in sexual relations."

Wikipedia continues: "NAMBLA defends what it asserts to be the right of minors to explore their sexuality on a much freer basis. It has resolved to 'end the oppression of men and boys who have freely chosen mutually consenting relationships.'"

Checking out the NAMBLA website, disturbing evidence exists of adults promoting sex between grown men and young boys. You can order a newly revised copy of Boys Speak Out on Man/Boy Love, promoted with a picture of a grown man dancing with a boy barely taller than his elbows. Chapters include "It Shouldn't Be a Crime to Make Love," written by Bryan, age twelve and a half. An interview with Thijs, age 11, declares "I'm Not Going To Be Kept Away from Him." How about it, "Sexperts?" Is consent considered justification for this type of adult/child sex?

Or what about a 2002 book written by Judith Levine, Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex? Widely promoted as a book to challenge "widespread anxieties" about pedophilia, Ms. Levine was toasted by national media and given every opportunity to convince Americans that science supports positive benefits for sex between adults and children.

The book's publisher, University of Minnesota Press, called Levine's book "a radical, refreshing, and long overdue reassessment of how we think and act about children's and teens' sexuality." James Kincaid, author of Erotic Innocence: The Culture of Child Molesting, called it "a crusading book that is also kind, a very rare phenomenon, and it comes down always on the side of trusting not only our kids and their pleasures but our own."

Taking up the banner of "consensual sex," most recently the Journal of Adolescent Health stated that "... there are no scientific data suggesting that consensual sex between adolescents is harmful." Seeking to justify their assertion, they pointed to the "many positive mental health consequences" of adolescent sex.

Finally, and most sadly, the Centers of Disease Control has now joined in the chorus of "sexperts" protecting sex for adolescents. At their 2006 National STD Prevention Conference in Jacksonville, Florida, the CDC had a chance to draw a line in the sand. And they failed.

At the CDC conference, standing before a crowd of national experts on STDs, Dr. Patricia Sulak sought to find common ground between the "sexperts" and abstinence educators. Surely, she challenged them, we can agree on this one thing. Can't we agree on an age too young for sex?

NO! the room erupted in unison. After all, this is the age of consent. If sex is consensual, that's good enough for them. If you are wondering what the CDC has to say about this ... so am I.

How about it, CDC? How young is too young when it comes to children and sex?



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abstinence; ageofconsent; boys; cdc; celebrateperversity; clintonlegacy; consent; corruptingminors; culturewar; doasthouwill; girlies; girls; hedonism; hedonists; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; ifitfeelsgooddoit; jailbait; kinsey; libertines; moralabsolutes; moralcharge; nambla; pedophilia; perverts; publichospitals; publicschools; sex; sexualizingchildren; taxdollarsatwork; teensex; youngblood; youngboys; younggirls; youngstuff; youpayforthis
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To: wolfpat

I do.


41 posted on 07/18/2006 6:18:34 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Whiskey for my men, hyperbolic rodomontade for my horses.)
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To: dufekin
How about this wonderful idea: the complete prohibition of any sexual intercourse outside a monogamous relationship between two persons, exactly one with a Y chromosome, sanctified through holy matrimony before Almighty God.

So much for Abraham, Jacob, and King David....

42 posted on 07/18/2006 6:25:53 PM PDT by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: Vision

Liberals will do anything to tear down the existing social order and replace it with their hedonistic dream.


43 posted on 07/18/2006 6:34:04 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (Every time a toilet flushes,another liberal gets his brains.)
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To: wagglebee

Abstinence until they are married!


44 posted on 07/18/2006 6:38:55 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: wagglebee

Unmarried is too young.

And marriage is between only a man and a woman.


45 posted on 07/18/2006 6:41:10 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Farmer Dean
Apparently...they're sick in the head and soul.
46 posted on 07/18/2006 6:53:20 PM PDT by Vision ("...cause those liberal freaks go to farrrrrr")
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To: wagglebee

I don't see the word "marriage" anywhere. Not even the responses.

There is nothing wrong with any willing sex in marriage regardless of ages.
So the question REALLY being asked is when is it too young for sex outside of marriage.
But all sex outside of marriage is wrong at any age.
Society in each jurisdiction has simply decided that above a certain age it will look the other way.

So the questions should have been:

1. At what age should marriage be allowed?

An analysis based on "legal consent" seems illogical if one can consent to marriage,
even if parental and/or court permission is required, at a lower age than for sex without marriage.
It was recently held in Colorado that only old British common law was in force, i.e. marriage at 10.
Until the last few decades, first marriage in the late teens to early 20s was near universal.
It was the complexity of modern society that tended to lengthen education and postpone marriage.
But then young people had sex anyway and got out of the habit of getting married.
Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
Late marriage has created a large pool of unmarried adults whose voting power has tended
to remove sanctions for sex outside of marriage creating the issue in the first place.

2. Who should be allowed to marry?

The long-standing practice of marriage between one man and one woman has been questioned.
Therefore homosexual sex covered by marriage has been impossible.
When there was less sex outside of marriage because of younger age at first marriage,
there was no constituency for recognition of other forms of sex.
Interestingly, the Judeo-Christian texts define sex between persons of the same sex or
too close relation as wrong, but says nothing at all about what age one should be.
(The Jewish Talmud sets a minimum age of 3 for marriage.
Islamic tradition specifies that girls must have their first menses.
Muhammad in fact consumated marriage with a 9-year-old, setting the traditional limit for Islam.
The first age of consent laws in Europe set 10 as the minimum age.
But British King Richard II 1367-1400 married Princess Isabella of Valois a few days before her
8th birthday in 1396. Reportedly she remained loyal to Richard after his ouster in 1399 and his death.
And everybody knows about Jerry Lee Lewis and his 13-year-old cousin-bride.)

3. At what age and in what situations should society look the other way for sex outside of marriage?

It is hard to make the argument that a free society should enforce a moral code on people
other than to uphold the contracts that they make.
Even the most religious in the Christian tradition should recognise that it is not for one
person to condemn others until they themselves are perfect.
So morality and religion hold no guidance other than don't do it.

In earlier society, girls especially were under the "protection" of their fathers until marriage.
Later marriage has produced a majority of people who reach adulthood and "emancipation" before
marriage which has broken down the paternal system and blurred lines.
Also, mobility has weakened paternal oversight when teens either drive or know someone who will drive them.

It is no coincidence that the prevalent view in the United States that the usual age of "consent"
and the voting age of 18 are closely aligned.
However that is not an argument why it should be so, only a demonstration that one can vote
one's self the license one wants.

My conclusion is that the advancing age of first marriage has created a situation rife with
moral relativism and arbitrary rules.
The rules will always be arbitrary unless people are encouraged to marry younger and have sex later.
It then becomes defensible and practical again to sanction all sex outside marriage as a civil issue,
and to prohibit sex before emancipation and with persons who are unemancipated and have
earlier emancipation through marriage.


47 posted on 07/18/2006 6:55:24 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: FreedomCalls
Jerry Lee Lewis thinks it's OK, (even if she's his cousin).

In fairness, the State of Tennessee had no problem with it either.
48 posted on 07/18/2006 7:10:26 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: wagglebee; All

The only age when it is okay to have sex is when you are married. If you are married at 15, fine. It is okay.

It is NOT easy to overcome the temptation when you are not married (it is tough!!!)

But, it is something that can be done.


49 posted on 07/18/2006 7:34:26 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: oyez
...It seems to me people with out children or(those with that don't give a sh*t] are making the rules.

I think you may have a point there.

50 posted on 07/18/2006 8:15:13 PM PDT by Kramster (" You can't confuse me ... that's my job.")
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To: LibertyRocks; mamelukesabre

My friend's 16 year old son didn't like his mama's no drinking rules, especially when she took his truck keys away and went down to DMV and removed her parental permission for his driver's license.

He called up Children's Protective Services and filed a complaint that she was physically and verbally abusive (mind you he's 6" and she is 5"2). So when the social worker comes calling, his mama told told the lady maybe foster care was appropriate to let everyone cool off and think about things.

In about 3 days he was begging on his knees to come home. She made him stick it out about 6 weeks. He was a whipped puppy after that. Yes, ma'am, No ma'am. I'd be pleased to take the trash out, it would be an honor.

It depends on the kid, the offense and the situation. But letting your kids know you won't put up with stuck on stupid can be very effective.


51 posted on 07/18/2006 8:41:59 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1

Well, I certainly do understand "tough love" is necessary sometimes and boundaries for our children are necessary at all times, and it sounds like in that case perhaps it was warranted -- especially if the child's accusations were false, kids like that make it hard on those of us who really were abused.

I was just appalled that someone would threaten to abandon their kid over sex, and the case you mentioned is a little different than driving them down there to Social Services, and dropping them at the door never to look back again, ya know?


52 posted on 07/18/2006 9:01:32 PM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: wagglebee

The sex positive agenda has been waging this battle in the culture war for over 40 years.

They ultimately seek to have everyone sexually active at every age. They preach from Reich and Kinsey.

Introducing condoms into schools was not about preventing disease or pregnancy. It was about winning the argument about teen sex. It went from "if" to "when".

What's more, the GOVERNMENT is funding this agenda.


53 posted on 07/18/2006 9:03:01 PM PDT by weegee (Merry Jo Kopechne Day!)
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To: wagglebee

The sex positive proponents oppose abstinence not because "it doesn't work" but because they consider it an unhealthy suppression of sexual desires.

Sex positive advocates seek to end all moral judgements over sexual pairings regardless of age, sex, relation, marital status, number, or species of partner(s).

They consider sexual gratification a birthright and want everyone sexually active (even the children).

There is no concept of "age appropriate activity". It is a libertine's utopia.


54 posted on 07/18/2006 9:07:19 PM PDT by weegee (Merry Jo Kopechne Day!)
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To: LibertyRocks
The socialist state doesn't believe in personal responsibility. The only "responsibility" is that the "haves" give up what's theirs for the "have nots" regardless of any actions or lack thereof from the "have nots".
55 posted on 07/18/2006 9:10:01 PM PDT by weegee (Merry Jo Kopechne Day!)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Mohammed married a six year old. In fairness, he did wait until she was 8 before consumating the marriage.


56 posted on 07/18/2006 9:11:49 PM PDT by weegee (Merry Jo Kopechne Day!)
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To: dufekin

The USED to be laws against unmarried fornication and adultery (both known as extramarital sex) as well as firm "age of consent" laws that did not make exceptions if both participants were under the age of consent or one ADULT was "near" the age of consent.

Try to get away with selling beer to a 20 year old. That "near in age" won't make any difference in your sentencing.

Same sex sodomy was a crime too. What you ask for WAS the law of land. But when all things homosexual were defined as a constitutional right (argued as acts in private bewtween consenting adults, expanded to minors/adults AND minors/minors, NOT strictly adults, as well as perverts in parks and bathrooms), it did NOT end all sex laws prohibiting acts between consenting adults. Prostitution is still a crime (but babysitting is not, so it is NOT the financial aspect) as is consensual incest (between adults but even between 2 minors should be ok if they are to be consistent). And there was a notable California case of incest prosection between two siblings (not even related) who were 18 and 20 (and had a kid) AFTER the Lawrence v Texas decision. The 18 year old boy was arrested for impregnating his 20 year old "sister".

So either there CAN be sex laws or there cannot.


57 posted on 07/18/2006 9:21:29 PM PDT by weegee (Merry Jo Kopechne Day!)
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To: mamelukesabre
As a parent, you always have one last ditch resort to fall back on. You can let your kid know that it is your legal right to get rid of any kid whenever you so wish it.

I hope and pray that you are not a parent. I've lived through the process which you describe, and I would never in a million years wish it upon my worst enemy, let alone threaten somebody with it - certainly not my own flesh and blood! If you truly feel as though it's okay for parents to abdicate their responsibility to their children, just because it's difficult, well - I don't know what to say, except that I pray you change this attitdue before you bring children of your own into the world.

58 posted on 07/18/2006 9:52:14 PM PDT by Ursine_East_Facing_North
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To: Graybeard58

You got that right.


59 posted on 07/19/2006 6:30:59 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Hmm?)
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To: Graybeard58

You got that right.


60 posted on 07/19/2006 6:31:03 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Hmm?)
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